Aero Engineering Degrees / University pilot courses (Merged)
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Aero Engineering Degrees / University pilot courses (Merged)
I want to eventually become a Pilot. I intenn on doing Aeronautical Engineering at a highly rated uni since my A level grades will be straight A's inc Maths and Physics. After completing my Degree i'll hopefully get a job with decent pay with which i can start paying for all the various license etc needed and then when i have them all i can look for a job as a pilot but at the same time have a decent paid job so that i am not frustrated by the lack of opportunities. How does that sound guys? What are the license need btw... PPL, CPL and ATPL?
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What to do at university?
but at the same time have a decent paid job so that i am not frustrated by the lack of opportunities
The idea behind the graduate job is that after several years you will be useful to the company (because you are a complete spare part at first) and start to searn better money as your career develops.
Since you want to start flight training straight away, this would be a financial cock up to say the least. In short, getting a degree, the associated debt and graduate job in order to fund your flying is a ****e idea.
On a positive note, you will have a career to fall back on should the flying not work out. But remember, you certainly do NOT need a degree to have a good career, despite what your careers advisor told you.
What are the license need btw... PPL, CPL and ATPL?
You will need a CPL with MEIR and an MCC these days. Make provisions for a TR course too.
Enjoy your youth. Although it is wasted on the young!
EK
I agree with MK, but would also add that unless you rapidly develop some good research skills and ability to write clear English in the next year or so, you'll get torn apart limb from limb by most Aeronautical Engineering lecturers - or at least they'll make quite sure that you don't make it into the second year.
Your maths and physics skills are only a small part of what you need on an Engineering degree!
Look at the careers guides from the RAeS, BWPA and doubtless many other organisations. And do a lot of reading - it's a reasonable route to starting to grasp what clear written English should look like.
G
Your maths and physics skills are only a small part of what you need on an Engineering degree!
Look at the careers guides from the RAeS, BWPA and doubtless many other organisations. And do a lot of reading - it's a reasonable route to starting to grasp what clear written English should look like.
G
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Weird that, I managed 95% in my AS level History exam and yet I do not know how to write clear English. If I'd wanted any smart ass comments I would've posted on Yahoo Answer's not here.
And MK you say that on average a graduate earns less than £20k. On which average? The average Imperial College graduate earns almost £29k, and even the average Bath graduate earns around the £24k mark. According to the Times anyway.
Was this reply written clearly enough and researched well enough for you Genghis?
And MK you say that on average a graduate earns less than £20k. On which average? The average Imperial College graduate earns almost £29k, and even the average Bath graduate earns around the £24k mark. According to the Times anyway.
Was this reply written clearly enough and researched well enough for you Genghis?
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Haaaa. You have just lectured Genghis one of our resident Uni Lecturers who helps out with academic discussions.
He is just the sort of bloke who will be vetting your UCAS applications and also conducting your pre course interviews.
I suggest you do go and ask Yahoo Answers cause after that reply the folk that do have the knowledge you want won't be answering you.
And before you bring it up we don't respect you or your opinions we just think your a young knob that has a whole load of growing up to do.
PS Don't bother with that "your being immature" crap that doesn't wash here either.
He is just the sort of bloke who will be vetting your UCAS applications and also conducting your pre course interviews.
I suggest you do go and ask Yahoo Answers cause after that reply the folk that do have the knowledge you want won't be answering you.
And before you bring it up we don't respect you or your opinions we just think your a young knob that has a whole load of growing up to do.
PS Don't bother with that "your being immature" crap that doesn't wash here either.
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I guess you've answered your own questions - go to Imperial College as their graduates have a higher average starting salary than even Bath; Bath as your second choice. Then either save for integrated training or go down the modular route while working as a graduate.
Alternatively start applying to the likes of CTC or Oxford Aviation, or wait for the next round of FlyBe MPL interviews. That approach will get you to the RHS of something more quickly than the approach you outlined in post 1without anywhere near the debt level of someone who goes to Uni, leaves well in debt and then adds to it with further debt from integrated training.
Genghis was simply offering constructive advice based on his experience as an academic, professional engineer and pilot. He's the sort of person to take advantage of on these forums; not lose. I could count on the fingers of one hand the academics who are practising engineers and professional pilots in the UK; and he's one of them.
Alternatively start applying to the likes of CTC or Oxford Aviation, or wait for the next round of FlyBe MPL interviews. That approach will get you to the RHS of something more quickly than the approach you outlined in post 1without anywhere near the debt level of someone who goes to Uni, leaves well in debt and then adds to it with further debt from integrated training.
Genghis was simply offering constructive advice based on his experience as an academic, professional engineer and pilot. He's the sort of person to take advantage of on these forums; not lose. I could count on the fingers of one hand the academics who are practising engineers and professional pilots in the UK; and he's one of them.
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Weird that, I managed 95% in my AS level History exam and yet I do not know how to write clear English. If I'd wanted any smart ass comments I would've posted on Yahoo Answer's not here.
And MK you say that on average a graduate earns less than £20k. On which average? The average Imperial College graduate earns almost £29k, and even the average Bath graduate earns around the £24k mark. According to the Times anyway.
Was this reply written clearly enough and researched well enough for you Genghis?
And MK you say that on average a graduate earns less than £20k. On which average? The average Imperial College graduate earns almost £29k, and even the average Bath graduate earns around the £24k mark. According to the Times anyway.
Was this reply written clearly enough and researched well enough for you Genghis?
This was valuable lesson No. 1 - to those a generation or more older than you, the use of language in your first post suggests that you are careless and not very bright. Think of these people as Employers. Don't alienate them.
Valuable lesson No. 2 is also present in the replies: if you can't be bothered to do any research before asking, and thus frame your questions more precisely, then you're almost certainly not suitable Employee material. There were two pieces of research you should have undertaken: (a) discovering what qualifications you would need for your proposed aviation career - 10 minutes via Google would have answered this, and you could then have asked more pertinent questions; and (b) the nature of the forum you were posting to - had you read a few of the threads you would (or should) have realised that your posting would annoy those whose answers you sought.
I know all this seems harsh, but school insulates you from the realities of life. Imagine you are a potential employer sifting 500 applications. Those whose first paragraph reads like your initial post are rejected without reading further - you cannot spend 30 minutes to read the rest and deduce that this person might be worth seeing. If you want to be taken seriously, you must make the effort to connect with your audience.
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I'm about to have a break down reading the downright rude posts 'wannabe's' are coming out with on these forums lately! Respect those that have worked their backsides off to be where they are and are pretty humble about it, they're the ones that will teach you A LOT !!!
This is not "MSN".
This is not "MSN".
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Thank you ProfChrisReed and India-Mike for the constructive replies. Guess my first post was not written nearly as clearly as it should've been.
And Sir Herbert, what exactly has 'MSN' got to do with anything? Is it possible that you're stereotyping me having seen my age? Well, how foolish of you. Respect goes both ways.
And Sir Herbert, what exactly has 'MSN' got to do with anything? Is it possible that you're stereotyping me having seen my age? Well, how foolish of you. Respect goes both ways.
Weird that, I managed 95% in my AS level History exam and yet I do not know how to write clear English.
On a serious note, it is an indication that the education system is failing to produce young people who are willing to put effort into their written English. Eric Blair will be turning in his grave. Dis.I.Like, you ought to have done some basic research before asking your questions, but all is not lost. Have a look at the sticky at the top of this thread regarding frequently asked questions. It is jam-packed with information.
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My "MSN" reference is simply because whenever I read an article in the paper about some people getting bullied online it's usually through that! Your actions on that are hardly ever accounted for, sadly, I'm not making any age stereotype in fact there is a bloke my age that I'm friends with who regularly goes on about being on MSN talking to aeroplaney people I hope. 
What nonsense this is everyone thinking their are being victimised these days. Laughable
What nonsense this is everyone thinking their are being victimised these days. Laughable
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Still do not understand, but never mind. This thread has far outlived its purpose and is in danger of becoming a slanging match. Adios.
And if its laughable then please, laugh as much as you like.
And if its laughable then please, laugh as much as you like.
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This is all you need to look at: http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...-question.html
One small point - that's an awfully hard degree that has awfully little practical application to the job of airline pilot. Dividing by 3 and multiplying by 0.8 is pretty much all the Maths I ever need at work...
Consider a course that may contain girls.
WWW
Consider a course that may contain girls.
WWW
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Further to WWW's post - my university looks for AAAA or AAABB in Scottish Highers; or AAB at A-level. We still have a first year chop rate approaching 40%, average examination marks per subject of 40-45% (just as well the pass rate is only 40%). While so many A's (or predicted A's) is laudible, it is absolutely no guarantee you'll make it. We've never seen any correlation between entry point score and success.
In summary? School qualifications no longer prepare young people for university. They're just a means of filtering.
Good luck
In summary? School qualifications no longer prepare young people for university. They're just a means of filtering.
Good luck
We still have a first year chop rate approaching 40%, average examination marks per subject of 40-45% (just as well the pass rate is only 40%).
A few passing thoughts:
- Many years ago, apart from the usual 5 A levels, I'd got very good grades in English at O and AO level (roughly equivalent to the modern AS) and was already paying for my expensive hobbies as a part time writer (which I still do). And, I got pulled apart limb from limb by the "old school" engineers charged with educating me for the poor standards of my written English; unfortunately the people teaching English in schools now are the people I went to school with so the standards there have got poorer - however the people teaching engineering in university are greybeards like myself and India-Mike have become.
- In the Times world university rankings, Imperial College is currently the 9th highest rated university in the world (sandwiched between Berkely and Yale). It is hardly surprising that their graduates attract above average starting salaries.
- However, I think that Dis.I.Like is a little closer to reality on mean graduate salaries than some others here - the UK mean is about £24k. (reference); of course that's for the proportion who get graduate jobs - a fair number don't in the current market so the reality of salary for graduates is probably nearer £18-£20k.
- On the other hand, graduates now are graduating with around £30k of debt, so living comfortably whilst paying that back on £22-£26k graduate salary won't leave much for flight training of around another £35k to CPL/IR/Multi/MCC that you'll need if you want an airline job.
- Aviation, as a profession, runs on criticism. Despite working at opposite ends of the UK, India-Mike and I know each other fairly well and I'd count him a friend, but at various times we've each been in the position of formally assessing the other's professional work and we've both been quite vicious. Neither of us have ever taken it personally, and we continue to get on fine. This is an attitude that is absolutely essential to survival in this industry - whether as an engineer, pilot, or academic. It is part of what we call CRM.
G
- Many years ago, apart from the usual 5 A levels, I'd got very good grades in English at O and AO level (roughly equivalent to the modern AS) and was already paying for my expensive hobbies as a part time writer (which I still do). And, I got pulled apart limb from limb by the "old school" engineers charged with educating me for the poor standards of my written English; unfortunately the people teaching English in schools now are the people I went to school with so the standards there have got poorer - however the people teaching engineering in university are greybeards like myself and India-Mike have become.
- In the Times world university rankings, Imperial College is currently the 9th highest rated university in the world (sandwiched between Berkely and Yale). It is hardly surprising that their graduates attract above average starting salaries.
- However, I think that Dis.I.Like is a little closer to reality on mean graduate salaries than some others here - the UK mean is about £24k. (reference); of course that's for the proportion who get graduate jobs - a fair number don't in the current market so the reality of salary for graduates is probably nearer £18-£20k.
- On the other hand, graduates now are graduating with around £30k of debt, so living comfortably whilst paying that back on £22-£26k graduate salary won't leave much for flight training of around another £35k to CPL/IR/Multi/MCC that you'll need if you want an airline job.
- Aviation, as a profession, runs on criticism. Despite working at opposite ends of the UK, India-Mike and I know each other fairly well and I'd count him a friend, but at various times we've each been in the position of formally assessing the other's professional work and we've both been quite vicious. Neither of us have ever taken it personally, and we continue to get on fine. This is an attitude that is absolutely essential to survival in this industry - whether as an engineer, pilot, or academic. It is part of what we call CRM.
G
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Ground loop I had a couple of mates in the OTC doing that course who had to move onto other courses which they did very well in I might add.
Aero courses requires a level of maths understanding which is way above the other Engineering disciplines you have to know it and be able to apply it not just trot out some answers in an exam. There are more than one or 2 Aero Profs out there with hard core Maths degrees. Jim Boyle is the same in FEA Mech Eng circles.
Mech Eng when I worked as an RA had similar drop out rates but maybe not quite as high and they had similar grades for intake.
Engineering is a bit of a weird one, some people have it from birth and others can be trained in it, and others just don't get it (But can still come out with high grades). Students come along thinking they are doing a cool course and then get hit with 35 contact hours a week, 9am lectures, 2-3 lab reports every week, project work and at the end of all that formal exams.
They are put into Halls with a mish mash of other courses some of which have 10 contact hours and never a lecture before lunch. Some of the more talented students can go out on the razz every other night, be members of the OTC, rugby club and still find time for scuba diving. But alot of them can't and they also don't have the self discipline to self study. It doesn't help in Scotland there were alot of us aged 17 when we started and graduated when 21. I think the English Uni's the average age is higher both starting and finishing.
But we are talking about Courses that are in the top 10 of there type in the UK. A 2.2 at India-mikes establishment in the engineering circles in the UK would have a higher employment value than a 1st from say Paisely or Napier.
Apparently these days it is the right of everyone to have a degree if they so wish. Thank goodness though there are still some establishments who don't dumb down to the lowest common denominator and still have a reputation for producing a quality product and will boot the person out if they arn't making the grade.
Aero courses requires a level of maths understanding which is way above the other Engineering disciplines you have to know it and be able to apply it not just trot out some answers in an exam. There are more than one or 2 Aero Profs out there with hard core Maths degrees. Jim Boyle is the same in FEA Mech Eng circles.
Mech Eng when I worked as an RA had similar drop out rates but maybe not quite as high and they had similar grades for intake.
Engineering is a bit of a weird one, some people have it from birth and others can be trained in it, and others just don't get it (But can still come out with high grades). Students come along thinking they are doing a cool course and then get hit with 35 contact hours a week, 9am lectures, 2-3 lab reports every week, project work and at the end of all that formal exams.
They are put into Halls with a mish mash of other courses some of which have 10 contact hours and never a lecture before lunch. Some of the more talented students can go out on the razz every other night, be members of the OTC, rugby club and still find time for scuba diving. But alot of them can't and they also don't have the self discipline to self study. It doesn't help in Scotland there were alot of us aged 17 when we started and graduated when 21. I think the English Uni's the average age is higher both starting and finishing.
But we are talking about Courses that are in the top 10 of there type in the UK. A 2.2 at India-mikes establishment in the engineering circles in the UK would have a higher employment value than a 1st from say Paisely or Napier.
Apparently these days it is the right of everyone to have a degree if they so wish. Thank goodness though there are still some establishments who don't dumb down to the lowest common denominator and still have a reputation for producing a quality product and will boot the person out if they arn't making the grade.
mad_jock, you have taken my comment completely the wrong way.
You have to make allowances for the modern school output. At my university we put a LOT of effort into additional Maths lectures and tutorials to bring the first year Aero (and other engineering) students up to a workable standard before things get much tougher in year 2 - even the old "grey-beards" like myself realise why we all have to work MUCH harder these days.
You have to make allowances for the modern school output. At my university we put a LOT of effort into additional Maths lectures and tutorials to bring the first year Aero (and other engineering) students up to a workable standard before things get much tougher in year 2 - even the old "grey-beards" like myself realise why we all have to work MUCH harder these days.