Baltic Aviation Academy
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Hi everyone
Were there any improvements?
Do you think the Wizzair program is still worth going through the hassle of this school? If the situation is that bad, I wonder if Wizzair will really want to continue the partnership, and what will happen for current cadets if the company realizes that their future pilots' training was not as good as advertised by the school...
Were there any improvements?
Do you think the Wizzair program is still worth going through the hassle of this school? If the situation is that bad, I wonder if Wizzair will really want to continue the partnership, and what will happen for current cadets if the company realizes that their future pilots' training was not as good as advertised by the school...
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Hi everyone
Were there any improvements?
Do you think the Wizzair program is still worth going through the hassle of this school? If the situation is that bad, I wonder if Wizzair will really want to continue the partnership, and what will happen for current cadets if the company realizes that their future pilots' training was not as good as advertised by the school...
Were there any improvements?
Do you think the Wizzair program is still worth going through the hassle of this school? If the situation is that bad, I wonder if Wizzair will really want to continue the partnership, and what will happen for current cadets if the company realizes that their future pilots' training was not as good as advertised by the school...
Join Date: Dec 2018
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The main problem is actually scheduling for now. And VFR delays caused by weather, but IFR is totally about planning. Because math is simple. For example they 4 IFR a/c with 5 IRI. They trying to give every student 3 slots per week.
A/C can operate 9 hours a day roughly. Because of ATC working times. And yet of course its impossible to get 9 hours because of refuel and so on... So in 6 working days (because one day off for instructor) if we calculate from 7 hour average, 168 hours. 3 slots per week for a student means between 9-12 hours (because of some flights 2 hours some of 3 hours and some 4 hours. But actually majority of flights 3-4 hours). So if we calculate from average 11 hours they need to operate 16 students in one time.
If you will look at amount of student they try to operate for now around 25-26 students at one time. And yet this is not only problem. Because of 100h-200h inspections most of the time they have 3 even sometimes they have 2 a/c. Even not talking about unexpected maintenance for a/c. And yet they doing all of this in other base with third part company.
A/C can operate 9 hours a day roughly. Because of ATC working times. And yet of course its impossible to get 9 hours because of refuel and so on... So in 6 working days (because one day off for instructor) if we calculate from 7 hour average, 168 hours. 3 slots per week for a student means between 9-12 hours (because of some flights 2 hours some of 3 hours and some 4 hours. But actually majority of flights 3-4 hours). So if we calculate from average 11 hours they need to operate 16 students in one time.
If you will look at amount of student they try to operate for now around 25-26 students at one time. And yet this is not only problem. Because of 100h-200h inspections most of the time they have 3 even sometimes they have 2 a/c. Even not talking about unexpected maintenance for a/c. And yet they doing all of this in other base with third part company.
Join Date: Nov 2018
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The management is trying to improve the training. There's a new director, which is more attached to fix the issues.
The lack of investment is not directly their responsibility. Aviation solution group (the owner of BAA, aviationCV, BGS Baltic Ground Service) is responsible for that.
The instructors also do what they can, as well the managers the students are in contact with. The training managers usually do their maximum to help out.
Many students were sent home due to the delays. It's the best thing BAA could do. Let me remind you that last year, all those students waited everyday to fly, stuck at home, paying a rent. Now at least they have a date to move to Spain and start flying.
BAA is victim of its own success. There are still some internal issues, but the school is moving on the right direction.
The lack of investment is not directly their responsibility. Aviation solution group (the owner of BAA, aviationCV, BGS Baltic Ground Service) is responsible for that.
The instructors also do what they can, as well the managers the students are in contact with. The training managers usually do their maximum to help out.
Many students were sent home due to the delays. It's the best thing BAA could do. Let me remind you that last year, all those students waited everyday to fly, stuck at home, paying a rent. Now at least they have a date to move to Spain and start flying.
BAA is victim of its own success. There are still some internal issues, but the school is moving on the right direction.
Join Date: Dec 2018
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Still some of students are waiting. Its not about being victim of their success. They was already knew that how much students they will have. Look dude most probably i'm started my education more early than you. And from the date we was started we try to warn school. We asked questions about how they will operate all this students whit such number A/C. They was saying don't worry it will be okey bla bla.... But at the end we saw what happened. And yes Martynas is good guy at least he trying to do something. But is it enough ? NO !!! I'm flying every week 2 times where is the improvement about this ? And that first in first out rule they was talking about its only a fairytale. By the way let me remind you one thing we are talking about IFR. There is a lot of students whom they are not finish their IFR or waiting MEP and already their contract finished or soon it will finish. And i dont know how you looking but for me management and school is same. If they not able to get investment which they want, they can change company or not deal with this thing. Training managers doing maximum help out ? LOL ! You know that there was a time even they didnt answer emails like one month. So dude as you can see at topic majority of students know and see what is going on really. So i will not discuss with such die hard fan like you about school. I dont know you but first promise which we was get NOVEMBER 2018 finish date. And guess what 2019 Feb and still waiting. You are assuming something only looking your situation. I suggest you talk with some students from February 2017 group which still trying to finish their education.
Last edited by flytodie; 12th Feb 2019 at 21:43.
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I don't know how you guys know whether BAA receive sufficient investment or not. Either some BAA employees blame them to cover their failure or you know someone in Avia Solution's management board. To start with if you consider employing enough FI is worth any money/investment, you are wrong. Maybe equipment cost money but often such investments financed with the mean of long term bank loans (often called leasing) so they don't need to pay lump sump money to manufacturer at once. So it is not all about budget they have but I believe it is mainly poor management.
About improvement in school, I see now improvement but at least they start to aim to the right direction. We will see if they will succeed or not. But this does not mean anything for current students. Most of us had already one of the worst experience/choice of our life and in the future I don't think many of us remember BAA as a good memory. Most of us still suffering, some of waiting for months and months, some of us having 1-2 flight per week, some of us waiting for months for flying MEP for 11 hours and others thinking what is next after graduation, especially for guys from Smartlynx and Avion. Because BAA still doesn't have career advice/help service before or after graduation to help their students (especially independent ones) to get a job.
About support from school. It is ''0''. Training managers were never good or know what they are doing since the first day I stepped into school. Very sad. In every internal mail which is shared with students they always mentioned 24 hours rule to answer students inquiries. But as it was mentioned one of the previous post some of the messages left without respond for days and weeks.Students never guided by BAA or training managers for the next steps or no information provided by them unless we ask them.
All in short, school is still missing professionalism. They should really look into schools out there to improve their service, transparency and the way they communicate with related parties.
About improvement in school, I see now improvement but at least they start to aim to the right direction. We will see if they will succeed or not. But this does not mean anything for current students. Most of us had already one of the worst experience/choice of our life and in the future I don't think many of us remember BAA as a good memory. Most of us still suffering, some of waiting for months and months, some of us having 1-2 flight per week, some of us waiting for months for flying MEP for 11 hours and others thinking what is next after graduation, especially for guys from Smartlynx and Avion. Because BAA still doesn't have career advice/help service before or after graduation to help their students (especially independent ones) to get a job.
About support from school. It is ''0''. Training managers were never good or know what they are doing since the first day I stepped into school. Very sad. In every internal mail which is shared with students they always mentioned 24 hours rule to answer students inquiries. But as it was mentioned one of the previous post some of the messages left without respond for days and weeks.Students never guided by BAA or training managers for the next steps or no information provided by them unless we ask them.
All in short, school is still missing professionalism. They should really look into schools out there to improve their service, transparency and the way they communicate with related parties.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
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I just saw this thread and what I can really not believe is how it is possible they get so many students (especially after reading how many planes they got, even much smaller schools in Poland have 2 multi engine planes for ME/IR rating). The marketing must be the cause, since when I decided in 2017 I do not wish to be a lawyer and live in Norway for the rest of my life and instead realize my big dream the only schools that appeared were the Norwegian one in Sandefjord and BAA...... Happily I got the idea that there must be some flight schools in Poland (so I checked through Google) and happily found some schools and chose one that I am very satisfied with (right now not even all aircraft are in continuous use and there are already plans to get 3 more (before the season) on good weather days since people can book when they want to fly a week in advance, and you always get at least 3 slots per week (sometimes 5) if you are available all the time).
I just can not believe how so many people can pay 72 000 Euro for the integrated course if the only difference is some ground-school for the ATPL exams, its definitely cheaper to employ a private teacher if you need it for the subjects. As for guaranteed jobs, well if failing to get any job in the airlines its still cheaper to p2f than to pay for an integrated course.
I actually believe that any random school in Poland will be better than what is described in this thread so if you do not prefer Warszawa check Lodz or Poznan schools before paying 72 000 Euro or 100 000 Euro or even more at integrated schools. For the difference in price you can have 5 or even 10 teachers giving you private ATPL lessons until you pass and still have a lot of money left. And theory ground-school is the only difference between 0-ATPL+FI and integrated course (theory that is usable in practical flying is taught perfectly and examined before you are allowed to fly solo or to build hours after achieving PPL(A) ).
I just can not believe how so many people can pay 72 000 Euro for the integrated course if the only difference is some ground-school for the ATPL exams, its definitely cheaper to employ a private teacher if you need it for the subjects. As for guaranteed jobs, well if failing to get any job in the airlines its still cheaper to p2f than to pay for an integrated course.
I actually believe that any random school in Poland will be better than what is described in this thread so if you do not prefer Warszawa check Lodz or Poznan schools before paying 72 000 Euro or 100 000 Euro or even more at integrated schools. For the difference in price you can have 5 or even 10 teachers giving you private ATPL lessons until you pass and still have a lot of money left. And theory ground-school is the only difference between 0-ATPL+FI and integrated course (theory that is usable in practical flying is taught perfectly and examined before you are allowed to fly solo or to build hours after achieving PPL(A) ).
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Are you looking for the catch? It comes in the definition of 'job'.
The catch is that they include 'line training programmes' as a job. So if when you finish your type rating you are approached by AviationCV (you will be) and they try to give you a placement of 500hrs for 40,000eu or whatever for a salary of 700eu a month, if you say no to this then they count it as you said no to a job and you will not get 10,000eu back.
The catch is that they include 'line training programmes' as a job. So if when you finish your type rating you are approached by AviationCV (you will be) and they try to give you a placement of 500hrs for 40,000eu or whatever for a salary of 700eu a month, if you say no to this then they count it as you said no to a job and you will not get 10,000eu back.
Join Date: Aug 2018
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I was also receiving those ad emails and thought the similar ideas as mentioned above ^^^^ which came to my mind. Most likely they will try to "make a great job offer" in one of their parent or sister companies for minimalistic salary & conditions and if you, the naughty boy with no experience, refuse this great offer, then it's purely your decision but you won't get the refund 
Join Date: Nov 2018
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Does anyone know/saw the B737 TR + first officer position ad on airBaltic Training facebook page? Self-sponsored 737 TR and a guaranteed FO job until November with possible contract renewal. Any thoughts on this deal?
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Plus they have their own training center Air Baltic Training with 737 simulator, it is not BAA's business apparently
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KT 1988,
I have to give advice for a choice of ATO to a young friend that want to start training. You seem to be happy in Poland, much, much better than the ones in BAA. Could you kindly tell the name of this good school? Thaks in advance.
FBW 390
I have to give advice for a choice of ATO to a young friend that want to start training. You seem to be happy in Poland, much, much better than the ones in BAA. Could you kindly tell the name of this good school? Thaks in advance.
FBW 390
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If something offered by BAA is too good to be true there is most probably P2F behind this or bad quality product. Be aware, don't fall into such traps. They are not Top 3 training aviation center, they are not even close. This title given to them by their sister company. Imagine I create an internet site, I put some information about myself and other competitors and then I called myself best of something, isn't it funny?
I heard from few former TR students that TR standarts are pretty low.
I heard from few former TR students that TR standarts are pretty low.
Join Date: Mar 2018
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FBW390 Tried to write a private message to you but the system did not want to send it. So I will write here instead:
Since you asked for a advice, there are many good schools in Poland. The most known one is Bartolini, but they got some waiting time to begin the training (I do not know if students have to wait long for slots or not after the training start) and cost a bit more than the other schools in Poland. The school I am attending is Goldwings Flight Academy and I am very satisfied with the school. The only unsatisfied person I saw during my stay was a foreign student who did not put a big effort in his PPL(A) training (did not pass exams at ULC for the first license which can be passed all 9 in one sitting in 2 hours (at least I did it that way)) and he demanded to fly solo cross country after flying with the best and most patient instructor (who lets you do really many mistakes and never gets angry no matter how much you fail, and instructing is a passion for him since he keeps doing it part time after he became FO in Sprint Air) and almost landing outside the runway at a grass airport in Kikity (the instructor had to save it and really waited until the last moment. I saw it from an AT-3 waiting to line up, others saw it from the terrace of the hotel) where we went on a 5 day trip when EPBC was closed. The school did what it could to help him like giving him the best (according to me the best) instructor and taking him in a small group that went to Kikity for those 5 days since he wanted intensive training. After the episode the student went almost mad that the school does not let him fly alone and the instructor corrects him.... "sadly" for him the school did not let him fly alone on the more demanding grass airfield (EPBC got much traffic but its much more easy airfield) and crash the plane.
Everyone else as far as I know was very satisfied with the school even those few students who were a little unhappy after questioning from our CFI before solo flights or after failing internal flight exam before solo flight. The owner and CFI of the school does practical theory checks on the students who fly on their first solo pattern and first solo cross country to be sure that they have the basic knowledge. Its not a school where you can just know nothing and pass the exercises.
As for the prices a naked 0-fATPL with CPL and IR/ME can be done for like 37000 - 38000 Euro and if you want it with MCC/JOC and FI rating then it cost about 48000 Euro with job guarantee as a FI (including a salary per block hour, the salary have to be negotiated personally with the school.) (ofc. you have to pass the exercises, exams etc. itd.) The school is also waiting for a program with Nordica job guarantee in the airlines, in the beginning the program is planned to be available to students at the school who already got PPL(A). I do not know more about it yet but I am very curious about it myself. (Prices are subject to change, what I tell are the prices I got, since more and more people wish to do the training in Poland they can rise)
Feel free to contact me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) and I can also give you contact to the owner of the school if your friend plan to visit the place and see if he like it.
PS. The price is for standard hours it means that if your friend does not ace the PPL(A) then he will have to use more than the 45 hours of mandatory training. Most people use like 50 up to 60 hours (I did 52 including mandatory solo flights before PPL(A) exam). Those extra hours cost extra 125 euro per hour since its with instructor. The same apply if you fail the exercises in MEP(L) or IR/ME its most costly since DA-42 is like 1500 PLN per hour (about 345 Euro). But its better to learn the stuff well at the school than fail at the official exam or at airline interview I believe.
P.PS: Just so you know I own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school since October 2018. So just tell your friend to also ask other students at the school. As for me I have such a strong belief in the school and its future that after getting my first PPL(A) licence I decided to invest in my own aircraft to be part of it not only as a student and future FI.
Since you asked for a advice, there are many good schools in Poland. The most known one is Bartolini, but they got some waiting time to begin the training (I do not know if students have to wait long for slots or not after the training start) and cost a bit more than the other schools in Poland. The school I am attending is Goldwings Flight Academy and I am very satisfied with the school. The only unsatisfied person I saw during my stay was a foreign student who did not put a big effort in his PPL(A) training (did not pass exams at ULC for the first license which can be passed all 9 in one sitting in 2 hours (at least I did it that way)) and he demanded to fly solo cross country after flying with the best and most patient instructor (who lets you do really many mistakes and never gets angry no matter how much you fail, and instructing is a passion for him since he keeps doing it part time after he became FO in Sprint Air) and almost landing outside the runway at a grass airport in Kikity (the instructor had to save it and really waited until the last moment. I saw it from an AT-3 waiting to line up, others saw it from the terrace of the hotel) where we went on a 5 day trip when EPBC was closed. The school did what it could to help him like giving him the best (according to me the best) instructor and taking him in a small group that went to Kikity for those 5 days since he wanted intensive training. After the episode the student went almost mad that the school does not let him fly alone and the instructor corrects him.... "sadly" for him the school did not let him fly alone on the more demanding grass airfield (EPBC got much traffic but its much more easy airfield) and crash the plane.
Everyone else as far as I know was very satisfied with the school even those few students who were a little unhappy after questioning from our CFI before solo flights or after failing internal flight exam before solo flight. The owner and CFI of the school does practical theory checks on the students who fly on their first solo pattern and first solo cross country to be sure that they have the basic knowledge. Its not a school where you can just know nothing and pass the exercises.
As for the prices a naked 0-fATPL with CPL and IR/ME can be done for like 37000 - 38000 Euro and if you want it with MCC/JOC and FI rating then it cost about 48000 Euro with job guarantee as a FI (including a salary per block hour, the salary have to be negotiated personally with the school.) (ofc. you have to pass the exercises, exams etc. itd.) The school is also waiting for a program with Nordica job guarantee in the airlines, in the beginning the program is planned to be available to students at the school who already got PPL(A). I do not know more about it yet but I am very curious about it myself. (Prices are subject to change, what I tell are the prices I got, since more and more people wish to do the training in Poland they can rise)
Feel free to contact me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) and I can also give you contact to the owner of the school if your friend plan to visit the place and see if he like it.
PS. The price is for standard hours it means that if your friend does not ace the PPL(A) then he will have to use more than the 45 hours of mandatory training. Most people use like 50 up to 60 hours (I did 52 including mandatory solo flights before PPL(A) exam). Those extra hours cost extra 125 euro per hour since its with instructor. The same apply if you fail the exercises in MEP(L) or IR/ME its most costly since DA-42 is like 1500 PLN per hour (about 345 Euro). But its better to learn the stuff well at the school than fail at the official exam or at airline interview I believe.
P.PS: Just so you know I own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school since October 2018. So just tell your friend to also ask other students at the school. As for me I have such a strong belief in the school and its future that after getting my first PPL(A) licence I decided to invest in my own aircraft to be part of it not only as a student and future FI.
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Read this before going to BAA
My personal story with BAA begins in September 2016. I signed a contract with BAA for ATPL integrated course. The sum of the training services was 59 900 EUR.Today this same contract costs MUCH more (around 75 000).
- During that period I paid more than 24 000EUR and got 36 !!! flight hours.
- During that period I`ve completed my ATPL integrated course in BAA and passed almost all my exams in CAA.
- In 2017 BAA terminated my contract with no refund.
My story began in June - August 2017 flight season.
On 27.10.2017 after the 2017 flight season ended BAA terminated my contract and it was the hardest hit I took in my life. The "reasons" are shown down below.
Okay, so in the contract that BAA provided me, was a statement that BAA has the right to terminate the contract prior 5 day notice if the student violates the "code of conduct".
As a "violation of the code of conduct" BAA refereed to:
CLAIM: I was twice (2) LATE for 10 - 15 minutes for my flight training at the aerodrome.
ANSWER: Theory takes place in Vilnius, practice flying - in Kaunas. 17.06.2017 Due to NEW CITY bus time schedule, I was late for my first flight with my friend. Second one - at 10.08.2017 was due to my car simply won`t start. All this 2 times I was late for 10 - 15 minutes. What a slack!
C: I was absent ONCE for flight training on 21.08.2017 (end of flying season).
A: I was in Vilnius doing my VISA.
C: Two (2) safety reports while flight training
A: Brilliant. "safety report 1" - 27.06.2017 while I was doing touch-and-goes in Aleksotas aerodrome, while turning downwind my instructor started shouting at me, told me to land and on the ground said that from his words I lead the plane into "spiral dive". Until this day, after getting my CPL license in other flight school, I know that it is not truth. I do not recall ANY abnormal attitudes of the plane that day. Nevertheless, the INSTRUCTOR is responsible for the safety of student and himself.This is simply nonsense.
Next "safety report" - on 11 of August after waiting for my flight for 5-7 hours in the briefing room (normal period for BAA 2017), while taxing to park the plane I slightly TOUCHED a small bush 20 cm with my left wing, living absolutely NO NOTICEABLE MARK on the wing surface. That`s it. Do you realise that BAA regarded to my learning mistakes as one of the REASONS TO TERMINATE MY CONTRACT WITH NO REFUND? All pilots that I`ve told this about confirmed that it is complete nonsense.
C: Lack of discipline and not preparing for classes
A: This is the best one. Look, being an ISRAELI citizen (which was obviously known to BAA), BAA gave me an instructor that was (from his words) FORMER IRANIAN MILITARY PILOT! Our nations are in a state of war for the last 50 years. From the first day I had a feeling that he treats me unlike my groupies. He often let me stay on the ground for 5-6 hours waiting for my flight or not flying with me at all. He told me so many times that if I don`t like something - I can change the instructor. I did not do that because I believed that our conflict could be settled. I was wrong.
===At the attached document "FLIGHTS" you can see my flying progress compared to the progress of my gropmates:
Red boxes - me not flying that specific day while at least one student of my group was flying.===
That is right - at the end of the flying season I got 2 times LESS (36) flight hours than my gropmates.
That is absolutely insane. I could not and can not believe what happened! My family was investing in me all this time and were in a serious financial situation paying for my studies. I payed almost 25 000 EUR (DEAR GOD!!), and got ONLY 36 (THIRTY_SIX) flight hours and got my contract terminated!!!
It was so INSAINLY STRESSING situation that until this very day my family doesn`t know that I had to sign a NEW CONTRACT with a NEW FLIGHT SCHOOL that was cheaper and , as I saw it, more honest with students - it will be unbelievably stressful for my family to know that all the money they were working so hard to earn, giving all what they got to pay for me ended up in 36 instead of almost 220 (!!!) flight hours and a terminated contract!. I feel anger and disbelief that such a thing can happen in Europe today. Each time I think about what happened with me keeps me awake at night. Makes my heart go faster in pain after I recall my experience with BAA.
In my new school my contract was 4 pages and the cost was about 30% LESS (not 60K) from the very beginning.
To end my story I want you to understand, that no mater how well-marketed, good looking, polished and hyped the company is, you ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS have to double check and verify all the information you are given. More money you pay does not guarantee anything. The smile they met me with for the first time, was the same smile they terminated my contract. Understand one thing: any flight school that is legally registered will NOT GIVE YOU A LICENSE - only CAA (Civil Aviation Administration) will give you a license. Only purpose of a flight school - to prepare you to meet the requirements to obtain the license. And I can tell you one thing - the next week our group found out there is no difference, some of us wanted to change BAA for a cheaper one, but we could not - the contract does not let you do that without paying "fines".
In the newest contract BAA provides you, from my friends in BAA told me, you are NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT BAA, otherwise - you can find yourself in my position.
I told you my story how I DID NOT became a pilot in Baltic Aviation Academy and regret the day when I heard about them for the first time in my life. I do know a lot of people who have the same feeling about BAA and share my pain and regret.
Please, be smart and don`t make our mistake.
Thank you.
PS
BAA have send me an official letter demanding deleting my previous comment in Google maps where I described all this in more emotional way.
Be smart.
Last edited by saxamen; 2nd Apr 2019 at 21:49. Reason: Grammar
