BusAirDriver

Interesting, as we have all been there. Guess, what my last holiday, I could not stand the thought of having to go to the airport also in my time off, and booked the Train to travel, and it was just amazing to not have to go trough the whole airport debacle.

"shaun ryder" & "Desk-pilot" have plenty of good advice in their posts, there comes a stage when "being a pilot" is no longer the most important thing in life, this is what you yet have failed to understand "jamesgrainge" , which is perfectly understandable, as you have not yet had pilot job.

After few years, and so far WITHOUT EXCEPTION, have I seen the trend be from enthusiasm to a stage where people look forward to every day off day have, and try to figure out how can they find out a healthy balance between work and life, there is more to life than flying, and I am sure by the time you get 40 - 45, you will have changed your views a lot from today.

wiggy

Yep, that was me as well...Even as a long in the tooth long hauler I think that is fair comment IMHO, and I don't know how long my short haul colleagues rosters are really really sustainable. I would also second the previous comments about the need to seriously consider some form of part time working if as a relative wrinkly (where are we with a definition of that? Thirty plus...) you are hoping to hold onto some semblance of family life or a life outside work.

MotoRinzler

At the risk of causing sparks...

I fully understand that this 'reality check' will be viewed as a service to the 'dreamy wannabee'. Yet one would also expect a balanced view.

Why people need to feel that the advice given has been wasted simply because others don't tip their hat in complete thanks and agreement and give the response you wanted, is ironic when it is described as the wannabee not getting the answer they wanted as the issue. If there is an imbalance of experience and knowledge, then educate and explain.

I truly value the responses I received... otherwise, I would not have even bothered to ask, let alone discuss and debate. My probing and response were to dig a little deeper into understanding. Not simply because I didn't get the answer I wanted. After all... if you all just said.. Yes you'll be fine. How does that help? without understanding why.

Some have said I was looking for validation. In my case - I was looking to see what sort of things made or not made you employable early 40's. I was looking to understand if age was the only issue.

At the moment I'm left with the impression it's all about: don't bother because you'll never earn the big money, and you'll have to work weekends type of responses. Yeh if you're rich then throw away 100k. Can I live on 25K. Can I take not finding a job.

I can't argue that 60 - 70K would be nice to spend on ... errrr... something else that I'd think I might want instead of flying. I could split it for example equally over the next 15 years (which was said to be my career return on investment time) and have all of 4.5k annually. Not a sum to be sniffed at... but is 4.5K a year worth a dream or a chance? Personal choices time.

In the most part... I can't say I actually found answers to the actual questions like does ATPL TK pass marks make any difference, does the school, the flight report, the hour building activities... or is it all about age.

For those that comment about money. Personally. Once you pay the bills: The amount you 'make' is for peacocks only (personal view). I for one have no need to earn a set amount to feel successful and be happy with life. Remember this isn't about how 'nice' more money is... it's about how 'Successful' I feel and my measure of 'achieving something'. In my world, it's earning enough to pay the bills and put food on the table for the family, keep them safe and give them moderate normal experiences whilst enjoying how I earn the funds to do it. Keep my family safe and make sure my wife and children know they are loved. I'm willing to do a job I hate if it's needed, 2 or even three jobs, but we're talking about being happy and a measure of success here not just providing.

Can I live on earning 25K? I smile... any idea what normal households bring home in this part of the UK (no need to respond). I work shifts, 6am starts, then 8pm finishes. 6on , 3 off. The finishes depend on the job in hand and what comes up... it could be extended to 4am (example) with no notice. 365 days.. xmas off every 3 or 4 years. Holidays are hard to take and I am in harm's way (literally) on a daily basis. I do enjoy it I admit, or I'd stop and stack shelves in Aldi. With a few (1 or 2) hrs overtime a week I'd be almost on the same money for no responsibility or risk, 9-5pm and probably no weekends. My salary is less than an EJ type rating! The last research I did indicated that even prop work paid around 28K plus flight/sector pay, increasing year on year.

In relation to spending time at home with family etc.. Anyone who is going to try and paint the picture that not spending time with the family on weekends, or not being free to take a holiday without any issues as some huge drawback and unforgivable situation; is a little out of touch with the rest of us normal working folk, who for the privilege of putting food on the table must at best (for the most part) do a job we neither love or hate.

If you have the support of your family network (what ever that may be for you) inside your own particular family dynamic, then I don't see the issue. Every family is different. Some need lt's of money to be happy, some needs a lot of 'you' to be happy, some just need 'you' to be happy and be there when you can.

You can scream 'reality check' as much as you want, but the fact is... some people spend almost the same amount of funds a CPL needs on a brand new Audi A8, a boat, a holiday, a mature students degree, landscaping the garden or on season tickets to watch football. Some just drink it away in the pub every Saturday away from the family with mates over the course of a lifetime. Some even save it and invest it, then die never spending it. Agan... being willing or prepared to spend 70K is not a measure of how easy money is throw away. It is a personal decision and is quite complex and different I would imagine for everyone.

The 'COST' in relation to funds, family, sacrifice, hardship etc will be different to everyone.

Sucess is much I suspect the same. For different people, different drivers will dictate their view of success. For some it's money. Wages, Status, perks, uniform, bragging rights, a childhood dream, or just the unexplainable sense of wanting and belonging without a real explanation as to why + opportunity and have a chance to go for it.

What makes some pilots employable over others.....? So far age is said to a factor but not a deciding factor, as there are plenty of low hour youngsters without a job as well. For all I know, it could do with the math test scores on the selection or the address on my CV.

I've decided to concentrate on a PPL first.. as without that I can't even move regardless of prospects or funds. Never know... I might even be happy enough pottering around in a little C152 laughing at all you guys away from home, bored at 38k ft disillusioned with a job you once dreamed of doing, having contracts cut, reduced perks, medicals, pilotless Airliner entry dates. Or I'll still be looking up like a kid with a grin on my face

Ironically... The cost of keeping a SEP on a PPL valid by general self-hire is about the same as the IRME annual revalidation. At least I know that if I can afford to get it, I can afford to keep it, thus keeping the ATPL TK alive and all valid. Rusty is another thing... but if we're talking about simply ticking a box to keep the rating alive. The cost is equal to that of a PPL SEP rating.... which I can do with what I do now. So worst thing is train, and continue to do what I'm doing....

BusAirDriver

"MotoRinzler"

First you should try to read the posts properly, and digest them as they are intended to be. Most of us guys who have been few years or many years in the job, are giving our time to give our advice, understandably they are subjective, but NOBODY has any interest to deter you from taking it up, although this could avoid regrets in the future.

First you need to adjust your figure upwards, you will need to include a TR in your equation. What you have to remember, that when the novelty has worn of, this becomes a job, admittedly most of us love the job, but the way it has changed with TC's, the only way for many to survive without working themselves to death is to work part time.

Age is a negative drawback if you want to get a job in the UK, with low hours, little experience, I would say getting a first UK job with an airline will be very hard. The selection procedures for various companies are different, and much of the initial selection is geared up towards abilities that at least for me would have been easy to do when I was 20, a bit harder to complete when you 45. Psychometric tests etc.

You talk about first time passes etc., and how the companies view this. First of all these things are not often decisive, however if you have many fails and resits, it could be viewed as you are a "slow" learner, and this could be indication of possible future training issues.
Because they have so many applications in that category, the companies can cherry pick the ones who have all first time passes, specially on the flying skills test, I would say this is more important, rather than the ATPL theory.

But to give you an example this is few years back, and was just a rumour I heard, but they would only consider your application if your ATPL score was average of 90%, and you had all first time passes on your CPL /IR, they could do this, because they had thousands of applications.
The selection of age, can be done in many ways, trough tests that are simply easier for someone to do when they are 20 than when they are 45.

I have heard guys getting into other positions with companies, and manged to get themselves into the flying seat.

So initially get your figures right, £80.000- £90.000 - and expect that get a first job you will have to move abroad, being paid peanuts, now if you feel that is something you can live with, never being home, not just because you working long shifts, but because you will be away for 7 - 14 days in a stretch, to get 3-4 days at home in between, than you are increasing your odds slightly to get a first job.

You will with 99% certainty NOT get a job in your own backyard, and most likely not even in your own country. After 2 - 3 years, and few thousand hours than this is very different, but until than that's how it is.

I know experienced guys in their 40's - 50's, with thousands of hours on Jets, that example don't even bother to apply for BA, because they don't want to start writing essays, doing Verbal reasoning, Maths tests and silly computer games to get trough to the interview stage in the selection, this is the way many companies make natural hurdles, that greatly disadvantages older candidates, and many simply don't even bother to apply.

Also if you was so passionate, why did you not take your PPL before, example I started my PPL when I was 17, sure I had a long gap until I took my CPL/MEIR etc., but it shows it's not just a midlife crisis.

Furthermore you talk about renewal / current costs, first keeping your SEP valid, at least you have fun flying for those hours, renewing your IR, is a skill that needs to be maintained, which is not very easy to do if you are never flying.
You than have to include the cost of some extra sim training, and if you get an interview and get trough to the sim, you need to add a few thousand pounds to help you prepare for a selection sim.

The Sim and the Personal interview is probably where most people fail.
Initial advice is do first a Class 1 medical, than start on PPL, see how you get on with that, time to study and how you enjoy the flying, and take it from there.

Regarding the money aspect, it seems it does not matter for you if you make £1000 - £1400 a month, with 2 households, than it's just to go ahead.

shaun ryder

Moto Rinzler let me guess, is it the highways agency you work for?

Barriers to an over forty year old male being employed as a minimum hours commercial pilot:

1. Your age.
It has to be said, you will be viewed as a training risk because of this. The training environment can be ruthless and very demanding. As unfair as it may sound, older candidates are deemed to be slower learners and unable to progress as quickly as their younger cohorts. You will want to excel in all facets of initial flight training. Modular training may be an issue as you will not have had your progress monitored. It is without doubt that airlines employing ab initios prefer the younger candidate.

2. CV.
When applying for jobs, your previous background from what I can see will include no aviation experience. Why now they may ask? Your experience will not be commensurate with age. Your CV/application is likely to languish whilst more favourable options are explored and filed above yours, A REALITY! I have personally watched this process with my own eyes, days if not weeks of work put in by a candidate to perfect an application that is passed over immediately because of any one particular thing. Just ask yourself, what is going to make my application stand out from all of the others? Unfortunately, your life experience won't make you stand out against 22 year old Tarquin with a first in biology and a 98% average in his ATPLs!

3. Flexibility.
Airlines will require a lot of it from a noob. You would need to prove this unequivocally at interview and make them believe it. It's all been seen before! Pilots that are based away from home can prove to be a thorn in the side for a company. Relevance to yourself being perhaps a regional operator with a number of bases, they will indeed try and recruit local candidates for this very reason. Married with children away from home will be discussed
post interview and could be significant.

The positives of employing 'older guys' in the right seat can be summed up in that they are less likely to move on. We all know that this is rubbish unless you land an A320 or 737 job on your doorstep (money will always be an issue), a medium jet skipper can earn £120k plus and you don't want any of that? What are the real positives if any because I can not think of one unless you come with previous experience. This is a harsh analysis I know but you rarely if ever bump into 40 year old first officers with just 200 hours in their back pocket. Sorry to use the word REALITY again but almost every brand new guy I fly with is under 35 years of age, the split being about 50/50 ab initio vs previous airline experience and almost no flying instructors interestingly enough. The oldies, +40 (sorry guys) tend to be ex turboprop skippers who have moved onto jets, some of whom have been waiting an age to unshackle themselves from their previous existence. Flying commercially is not a social activity, it is a high stress environment. I personally don't care for 'life experience'. I want the guy next to me to be a switched on cookie with a good dose of modesty thrown in. You mention being 'headstrong' and taking the lead, how would this apply on the flight deck? It's a fine balancing act.

Starting with a blank sheet would be a good idea, dump the preconceptions and a drink a pint of humility. When seasoned commercial pilots offer you real world advice about what it's like in THEIR industry you may want to take note as it's certainly no picnic starting out in this game. Sometimes you have to walk away and bite your tongue if you don't like what you hear, just like we do every six months after walking out of the simulator ;-)!

In this overtly PC world I feel obliged to say yes go for it, you can achieve your goal, you can achieve anything if you put your mind to it. Hypothetically, if it was me knowing what I know about this business I wouldn't do it. I would be building my children's future on the foundations that I have already laid, playing roulette with my families finances because I wanted finally to become a pilot would not be an option. But that's just me.

jamesgrainge

As an interesting aside, the average pay for a UK pilot as of 2016 was £86,855 (BBC figures) and was listed 2nd highest out of 328 chosen professions.

Yes an average, but considerably more than the £1400 a month promised by some posters here.

Basil Fawlty1

If you're under 35 you shouldn't even be looking at this thread 😊. You're plenty young enough - go for it if it's what you want to do.

For those over 35 and, especially so, for those over 40 it becomes much more of a risk. The notion of being 40 something and having always wanted to be a pilot with no flying or aviation experience is simply not credible to recruiters. If you're in this latter age group then IMHO it's worth considering the following questions. The more of these you can say yes to the more chance you have of succeeding. If it's a no for all or most of them then it's really a risk too far.

1) Do you have no dependents ?
2) Can you afford the training (including TR) without taking on any debt ?
3) Do you have a fallback plan if it doesn't work out ?
4) Have you paid off your mortgage ?
5) Do you have savings/a career that can cover you after training whilst looking for a job ?
6) Do you have experience in the aviation industry ?

BusAirDriver

The words I would like to express would get me banned from this forum so I suggest you fill in the blanks yourself :


It seems people have a selective selection of what information they wish to use to justify their actions and desires, however distant they are from the REAL reality of the world.

I guess we are ALL just LIARS when we throw such figures out in the air. The movie Dumb and Dumber comes to mind, not so much for the content, rather for the generic title some people deserve.

BusAirDriver

You WON? So you do not need to pay for it, well that's a no brainer than.

MotoRinzler

shaun ryder : Thank you.

Although I may offend other posters, who I'm sure may think "I said that". I found your post structured in such a way that I'm left with the feeling I understand what you have explained.

Yes. There are times to bite one's tongue. But I'd hope this forum isn't such a setting. That said, I'd like to tease a few things out if I can.

What I do find interesting is the range of opinions from "seasoned commercial pilots" who are giving advice on "their" industry. This isn't a dig, but hardly any of you say the same thing for the same reasons, which makes it difficult to know which seasoned commercial pilot to pay more heed to

Like any two humans; not everything that is said/typed is received in the way it may have been intended, nor will two individuals completely agree all the time on any given subject. Different personalities and experiences lead to different positions, and therefore different advice.

My aim in approaching the forum/thread was to gain an insight into what makes one pilot more employable than another, not limited to airline employment. The context of the question was, of course, my own situation, because I was asking for my own understanding and wish to relate what ever responses I gained to myself. Yet my age was not the main question although It's become the main focus of the responses, as had Jet airlines.

* I understand (from reading.... a lot of these type of posts), that age IS a factor, yet stories can be found to the contrary all over. Equally, the issue with older guys is never really explained with regards; is it all about the actual age or is there other 'employability' issues. Personality, experiences, soft skills, technical skills or just an unfortunate choice of mis matching socks at interview.

* I find it hard to believe that most pilots must be singles, with no family, house, or routes to affect flexibility if having a family is such an issue on gaining entry to the airlines.

I would expect the issue of moving to equally apply to ALL candidates and current staff regardless of age. Again. This might also explain the ability for turbo prop guys to remain turbo prop guys and not folow the oney and jump into a RHS of a jet, or for a person to remain with a company because it doesn't create the need to shift about constantly. My point here is that I think most careers would present the need to re-locate for it initially, and thus moving to setup somewhere isn't particularly a new concept. It isn't for me anyway. Having said that. The effect on my own family unit is not lost on me, it' simlpy a family deision and somthin one would hope (as it is in my case) would be sorted and understood before £XYZ has been spent.


There are good inputs in this thread all the way from the start; yet complete contradictions from one poster to another. The difficulty is that "seasoned commercial pilots" telling us about "their" industry don't say the same thing

An example of this is a previous poster on this thread indicated that the recruiters would be thinking 'could you spend a long time in a small space with this person', inferring posative personality, and 'life' skills count as a positive.

Yet you state you don't care for 'life experience, all you want is a switched on cookie with modesty'.

I can argue with neither, as I can relate it to my own work situation where I'd actually want your switched on cookie AND someone who you can spend hrs with in a small space

I understand that recruitment sim checks are failed by candidates due to both over and under assertive personality traits, as much as technical skill. No mention of age relating to standards though surprisingly. Or that could just be because the older guys don't make it that far. I'd be interested in the stats for new MEIR issues relating to the age of applicant; then seeing how much of a % over 40 actually represents. Then run the same for new entries into work and see if it's all adding up.

I also found interesting research as to CRM development and flight deck personalities, and how lack of flight deck communication has been a factor in accidents. That culture differences in the ME where the captain is said to be God and the FO simply does what he's told yet Euro model is monitoring and assisting yet without blindly following without clarity or briefings as and when required.

BusAirDrvier: I see you getting increasingly frustrated. I can actually see where James is coming from as not being 'in' the industry we only have external references to go on. And of course... you will know yourself. They show a different picture of salary than you are showing.

The lowest airline basic salary I've seen is Flybe Turboprops at £28k. Rising year on year. Jets being around £40k. These, of course, are probably not bonded. Are you able to give some real life current examples to contrast? I know you used £1400pm but is this current and for Airlines or other work?

I'm not trying to 'call you out'; I simply can't find that level of pay anywhere other than ONE corp jet setup that takes low hrs.


General question (not age related);

How does the license and or medical insurance work? Is it like a critical illness insurance that in the event of you failing a medical, losing the CPL, one gets a large payout to compensate for the loss of earnings moving fwds?

What sort of pension deals are normal?

Age question: Assuming I accept that the Airline see older guys as slower and more of a training risk. Which on face value as a general comment I might be willing to accept.

May I ask how old you experienced guys are? Who of you are Captains, and at what age did you do your command courses? When was the last time you went through a TR?
Do you feel that you (as you are getting older) are finding it difficult to continue to pass the sim checks? Would you say that as you have got older (regardless of how old you are) you find it hard to keep up with the new young blood in the RHS straight from CTC and the like? Do you see ANY difference in the Modular pilots vs Integrated? Would any of you encourage your children to follow you into the industry?

Bealzebub

In answer to your general questions:

Loss of licence cover pays out an insured sum if you lose your licence through no fault of your own. It is a lump sum payout and like most insurance comes with a whole raft of qualifying criteria. Given that it is assured that you will ultimately lose your licence the premiums rise with age.

Pension deals reflect the general economy. Final salary pension schemes are almost extinct for new entrants. Money purchase schemes are the norm and as in the wider economy they vary from employer to employer. Employer schemes in the U.K. might typically comprise an employer contribution of 7-10% of your basic salary together with your own voluntary contributions to the tax allowable annual and lifetime limits. Remember that retirement in this profession is currently compulsory at age 65 (and medical standards may force an earlier effective retirement age). State pension age is rising in the near term to 66 and 67. It is very likely this will increase over the coming years. This can place a particular importance on the retirement planning for professional pilots.

I am in my late "fifties" I did my command course at age 28. I last went through a new type rating course (from Boeing to Airbus) 3 years ago. I cannot say I find it it difficult to pass the sim checks, because I know what is expected and apply the necessary learning criteria to maintain the required standards. Importantly, I can also balance a great deal of relevant past experience to whatever the current requirements demand. The new cadets come from intensive learning backgrounds. They are on a steep learning curve, and their keenness, application and determination most definetaly keeps you on your toes. Again, it is an aspect where relevant experience provides a weighted counterbalance. Almost all of the cadets I see are from an integrated and full time training background. Pilots from other training backgrounds are likely to have worked their way up through stepping stone jobs, and likely other airlines. Experience in those roles, together with determination, application and a healthy dose of luck, should ordinarily provide for a good pilot, They are however significantly different career paths.

If any of my children truly wanted an aviation career (one has) then yes I would encourage them to fulfill that path. Not to "follow me" because that path is long trodden and a lot of it no longer exists. They would have to tread their own path and have a strong appreciation and understanding of the realities involved.

MotoRinzler

Bealzebub.... that's one of the most helpful responses. Thank you.

jamesgrainge

I am simply presenting a fact from the BBC website, if you wish to tell me it's wrong, criticise them, not me.

BusAirDriver

Just because you find an article on BBC website, does not make it FACT.

Rather you should study various airlines TC's, instead of just basing it on Senior FO's or Captain.

It is not really relevant considering it will take you 5 - 10 years before you will be in the LHS, in this time you need to complete your training, find work, survive renewal costs, pay for Sim sessions while you are applying for work, and live. If you are a 40 with 2 - 3 children and wife, this is a complete different equation from being 25 and with few or no commitments.

If you fail to see this difference, well than this is your problem to lack SA.

BusAirDriver

"MotoRinzler" I will rather PM you on these details if you are interested with answers to some of the questions you ask, as I don't wish to put this onto a public forum.

From my experience, I have not met many who said they would recommend this career for their children, I would not discourage my children, but I would not encourage it either.

Although I am not a big fan of integrated courses like CTC / Oxford, as I think they "over-charge" training costs, however if coming attached with a guaranteed job, it's one of the better options to choose. I did not go that way myself.

I believe all your questions have been answered regarding reasons "age" is an issue, and what you need to understand, HR are overall looking for special treats in candidates, there will be positives and negatives with all, but example trough course like CTC / Oxford, the airlines are actively shaping the pilots in their own image, like they want them to be. And to be fair, they have had great success with this so far, either we agree or disagree in this.

Regarding starting salaries for pilots, I believe a few you need to do some more research, so you can determine the reality of the pay after tax.

MotoRinzler

Understood. PM me as needed

redsnail

I am 52 years old. I passed my command course 10 years ago. I did my last type rating 9 months ago.
My career is not typical for the UK/European market. I was a flight instructor, bush pilot, coastwatch pilot, regional turboprop pilot in Australia before coming to the UK.

Am I finding it difficult to pass checks?
No. I know the standard that is expected so experience plus motivation to do well ensures a good performance. I don't fear checks.
We no longer accept cadets, we haven't hired any one since 2008. The cadets we took from Oxford were of an excellent standard. They were very strong on book stuff, but I could show them how to apply it and where the gotchas are.

I don't fly airliners. I fly business jets, mental agility and operational flexibility is paramount as well as outstanding customer service. BTW - I love my job. I reckon I have one of the best civvy jobs out there. It has its moments, but the good far outweighs the bad. For me this job has the best qualities of my fun GA jobs but with the security of one of the biggest companies out there as well as excellent maintenance and support from the office.

wiggy

FWIW

60 plus or minus.

Transitioned from mil flying with a fair bit of P1 time in my mid thirties...

Civvie Command in my late 40's on a Long Haul wide body (so after 15 years of civvie flying but with over 25 years of flying in total)

Last Type change 7 years ago, last recurrent check last month.

I think redsnail sums up checks, etc with....

"Am I finding it difficult to pass checks?
No. I know the standard that is expected so experience plus motivation to do well ensures a good performance."

And the experience is the big thing...If you start flying in your teens you are still carrying a hell of a lot of experience around even into your 50s plus.

As for thrusting young cadets..there's an old story about two bulls in a field..

G SXTY

I’m mid-forties, and left behind a safe but boring office-based career in my mid thirties.

First flying job was aged 36, flying TPs with a UK regional that sounds suspiciously similar to Desk-pilot’s . . . Five years there; salary, career prospects and job security not the best, but wonderful experience – fun flying from small bases with great people. It was a working holiday.

I then spent a couple of years in the Middle East, flying mostly at night to some godawful, horrible, scary places. Great money, great experience (with hindsight – it didn’t feel like it at the time) but p!ss-poor quality of life. I couldn’t wait to escape.

Now with a very big UK airline – that sounds suspiciously similar to Desk-Pilots’s . . . Except that I was fortunate enough to join on a longhaul fleet rather than the minibus. Money is somewhere between the other two, but with much better quality of life, career prospects and job security. For sure I’ve been lucky with timing, but you take your breaks and - to an extent – make your own luck.

And after nearly a decade of airline flying, it still feels like I’m being paid to do my hobby. I can’t think of many jobs like that.

Nurse2Pilot

Hello everyone!

As you can see by my name, I currently work as a Registered Nurse for one of the University Hospitals in the UK. Due to the current pressures being applied to the healthcare sector, I am considering a career in one of my childhood dreams even at the "late" age of 35. However, I have zero clues where to start! I'm spending my free time reading and researching, but most of it is confusing and I fear I don't appreciate a few things that I come across.

I am starting this thread just to try an un-clog my brain and if anyone could be kind enough to throw some guidance and advice my way, I would be very grateful!

I'm guessing this issue has been done to death, but I, too, am having issues with financing. While I am currently a British Citizen and living in the UK with my wife and two sons, the rest of our families are back "home" in the Philippines and thus, most of the financing options (secured against property in the UK) are unavailable to me. I'll have to find another way to raise the funds for this new "adventure."

Speaking of "adventure," I am planning to do this the Integrated way for two reasons - time and appearance. I've heard/read that airlines prefer Integrated as opposed to Modular so I'd like to stack that in my favor. I'm also currently employed full-time and I believe I can take an 18-24 month sabbatical and return to my current job while waiting for an airline offer; I'd rather do this than stretch out the training over several years. I don't mind job-hunting for a year or two as I continue working in the healthcare sector; I don't want to be juggling work and study for a year or two. With my current job, I can afford a reasonable loan on a 12-15 year payment term if I do end up with a CPL/fATPL but no airline job.

My next hurdle is the training itself. UK and EASA or USA and FAA? I don't understand either EASA or FAA enough to appreciate the difference. However, I am under the impression that US-based training is cheaper than UK-based schools and even UK-based schools go to the USA or NZ to do flight hours there, so maybe cut out the middleman and just train in the US then convert FAA to EASA license? I'll need to find out how that costs in the USA compared to UK schools, but most pages I come across are filled with so much jargon and abbreviations that I don't understand half of what I'm reading! Work-wise, I expect to be looking at either Europe, Middle East, or Asia/SE Asia for employment as I believe the US/Canada market is saturated with pilots and poor pay.

Currently, I'm looking at 2Fly Pro-Pilot as their training is around £70K as opposed to the £100+K for CTC and CAE Oxford, but like I said, I'm brand new to this so I'm still looking around for other schools to weigh my options. One of the flight schools in Florida that offer EASA training (Naples Air Center) estimates around US$45-50K, which is around half of 2Fly's £70K/US$92K, but 2Fly includes accomodations so I'm not entire sure how everything weighs in... for example, Naples Air Center flies out of Naples Municipal Airport which is tower-controlled while 2Fly flies out of Merritt Island airport which isn't tower-controlled.... but they also have an office in Fort Lauderdale and the Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport is tower-controlled.

Speaking of schools, my next issue is how to determine whether a school is legit and whether their training is any good. I guess people can't say anything bad about CTC and CAE Oxford aside from the sky-high fees, but for the smaller, cheaper schools, I read about "shady" establishments all the time. In fact, one of my local flight schools (PPL only) is/was owned by a rather interesting character and I found out about his history here on PPRuNe! This is also one of the reasons I don't want to go too cheap --- "if it's too good to be true..." Another factor that I'm aware of, but I'm not very sure about the value, is how "connected" these schools are with the airline companies. CTC, Oxford, and 2Fly advertise their connections to airlines but a local flight school that offers CPL does not.

Whew! Feels good to be able to get this in writing so that I can review this and don't have to store it all in my head and maybe forget important aspects later on.

Thank you very much for reading this and like I said earlier, any snippets of wisdom or advice would be greatly appreciated! I will continue updating this thread as my adventure progresses.