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The perpetual 'Am I too old?' thread

Old 14th Sep 2014, 07:48
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stranger12

You are not legally allowed to get paid during your hour building! In addition even with a CPL it is very restrictive unless you have an AOC!

So the bad news is, that it is Pay Pay Pay!

"3. is the salary range between 50-150K ( pound ) depending on experience ?"

First do not expect to get anything near that kind of pay in the start. Starting you will be very lucky to have £1500 - £2000 after tax! If of course you ever get a chance of a job!

There are few stories of lucky people who get a job, I would not say your age is any issue!
Rather that you have the preservence and funds to keep you looking for a job in many years to come after spending close to 100K.

If you want an airline job you need to include a Typerating at one stage, that's why expect in total 100K for training.
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Old 19th Sep 2014, 22:56
  #422 (permalink)  
 
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Please try not to laugh, but to save me reading the whole thread, could somebody tell me whether 52 is too old to start from scratch and become a bush pilot in the back of beyond?

That would be my only ambition - bush pilot in the arse end of nowhere. Transporting cannibals for Susi Air in a Porter would be as exciting for me as low level stuff in a RAF fast jet. (Which was all I wanted when I was a yoof. But I failed the medical.)

My only experience is gliding as a teenage air cadet. Half a dozen 4 minute solos.

EDIT: OK, I've read the thread now, and it seems to me that it's not yet too late. Say I spend the next 2-3 years training, I apply for bush pilot jobs when I'm 54/55, I can have a 10 year career before retiring at 65, that's assuming I can keep passing the medicals.

I have no ties and would love to be based in a developing country. I don't need money, I'm used to not having any! I was affluent and successful in my 20s, been there done that, I'd rather have a bicycle than a flash car.

Maybe a bush airline would like the idea of a 55 year old who wanted to stick with a single engine TP for 10 years rather than a 25 year old who only wants the job for 2 years before going back to Europe to fly a 737?

I suspect the thing that will stop me is failing the medical before I even start training. That's what has always stopped me in the past. I suppose I need to head to another forum to get into the specifics of all that.

Last edited by Nick H.; 20th Sep 2014 at 00:08.
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Old 20th Sep 2014, 01:02
  #423 (permalink)  
 
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Hey Nick H,

Mate your wasting your time and money at 52, my advise is go and get a PPL and just hire aircraft.

32 is now becoming to old for the heavy side of town.
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Old 20th Sep 2014, 01:06
  #424 (permalink)  
 
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Heavy side of town? Wossat? A single engine TP doesn't sound terribly heavy.
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Old 20th Sep 2014, 02:50
  #425 (permalink)  
 
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Nick,

The developing countries you talk about usually have an age 60 cut off for single pilot. Indonesia certainly does. Two years training and if you did manage to snag a job at Susi which is highly unlikely, getting into a Porter will take another three years. That's if you make the cut. Lots of guys want to fly it.

I really don't think you want to spend spend five years in Indonesia. The guys you see on the Channel 4 show are exceptions. Most last two years. Some a little bit more.
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Old 20th Sep 2014, 03:40
  #426 (permalink)  
 
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Nick H

It doesn't matter what you want to fly, there are guys 18+ year olds your competing with , the 32 age bracket i was trying to highlight ageism in this industry is rife

Ok go and blow your cash and i will tell you i told you so, when you come back to this forum looking for work because your unable to find anything.

Listen to people who have been there all ready .......old dogs new tricks ?

Last edited by ersa; 20th Sep 2014 at 03:43. Reason: spelling due to age
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Old 20th Sep 2014, 11:01
  #427 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks pilotchute, that pretty much knocks it on the head. I may as well go back to dreaming about lottery wins and a Mig 29.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 16:40
  #428 (permalink)  
 
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30 Year old wanting to start Airline Career



Im 30 years old, been working and travelling for a long time, left school at 16, what are the chances of becoming an airline pilot?


I have all the cash to do training and even get type rated


Could some of you folks please tell me if i'm too late to start, if modular is an ok route to getting a job?

I have the cash but don't really have the education , and i'm already 30!!

What should i do? Please help, any info would be great appreciated
Would it be a waste of money???
Thank you
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 20:03
  #429 (permalink)  
 
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You will be extremely fortunate to get a job flying as an airline pilot. Its massively competitive and extremely difficult to get in to. Money can't buy everything, it takes huge amounts of dedication and sacrifice to even get in to the position to apply for a job. Buying a type rating won't cut the mustard as you need minimum time on type to apply for jobs. I suggest you read more on these forums before wasting your money.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 14:04
  #430 (permalink)  
 
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737wanttobe,

Firstly you are not too old, far from it. Secondly you have the cash which puts you well ahead of many other 30 year olds. If you really want to do it, go for it. Or you might regret not trying. And be prepared to go overseas, initally anyway.

If you can afford it, go integrated at Oxford. Yes, modular gets you the same licence and yes many, many have been successful that way. But if I was in your position, that is what I would do.

As SR says, yes there is competition out there. I started flying 15 years ago just as the old 'self improver' route was coming to an end. Most (not all) I came across going CPL got into some sort of paid flying. Not all have achieved what the wanted and many had to make big sacrifices on the way. Whatever decision you make, enjoy it.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 10:24
  #431 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Sirs, as many if you do, i have a question.am 34yo greek univercity degree etc. am i too old for ATPL?
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 09:21
  #432 (permalink)  
 
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Panos,

Have you bothered to read any of the previous posts on this thread?
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 22:00
  #433 (permalink)  
 
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A commercial career in later life.

Hello gentlemen.

I have been reading through the thread and I can completely understand the desire you all have to live your dreams and fly for reward. I have been flying for reward for 28 years now and I would like to tell you the following story.

A PPL student in a Warrior sees a Seneca twin taxiing out and thinks to himself, "wow, one day I really want to get onto twins, that's so cool". The Seneca pilot gets to the threshold and prepares for departure when he/she sees a Kingair turbine twin coming in to touchdown and whispers under a quiet breath "that's the life on turbines, I can't wait".

Previously the Kingair pilot who saw the SAAB 340 whos pilot had seen the 737 and all had aspirations about flying the next best thing. The 737 crew had spoken to each other about their desire to fly the widebody 747 they had seen coming into land from a long haul flight after that crew completed a 15hour flight. That previous night, the 747 crew had seen the space shuttle go over (yes you could see it with the naked eye) and said,"now that is the ultimate flying job, wow'!!

The commander and pilot on the shuttle, at the time the 747 crew spotted them, was looking down to earth where the dawn was breaking through a good telescope and saw a PPL student taxiing out in a Warrior. The shuttle pilot said out loud, "one day I really wan to get back to flying because that is real without doubt flying"

I truely belive that the moral of the story is where "real" flying is at. Being in an airliner is not all it is made out to be. The health aspect is not good for you, 16 hours in an aluminium tube at 6500ft cabin altitude and little chance to exercise. You might remember that every time you buy that new car, you are really excited to drive it and yet, after a while the fun wears off. The same thing can happen when you operate an airliner. Note, I say operate because today, airliners are not flown, they are operated as many airlines prefer you to have the autopilot engaged soon after take-off and disconnect just before landing.

I am flying the worlds largest airliner and I am proud of my carrer path. I still have a decade or more of my career ahead of me and many many long night hours bumping through the sky. Doing this job at this age is a real stress on the body.

If you have a desire to fly, then go and fly, do not pay your life savings out to chance getting into an airline to "operate" an aircraft. The halcyon days of aviation and BIG pay-checks were back in the 1970s and 80s. Today, airlines operate at cost and continually try to make cuts in everything (pay included) and always try to work you to the maximum. Flight time limitations by the airlines are targets for them to work you to the maximum and not as a safety regulation.

With little to no experience and due to age, anyone over the age of 30 without an ATPL in tier hand is pretty certain to not have a fruitful and rewarding career in aviation. It is seen in my airline, the older you are the more harder it is for the airline to mould you into what they want. They are after recruiting pilots who will be moulded and become more experienced over a decade or two and make the commanders of the future. CRM is a big issue in airlines today and the younger you are the more easy it is for them to "adapt your personality to their ideal model".

The first officer, right seat, on the ill fated Air France Atlantic crash that pancaked into the ocean was a late starter. Part of the blame, if only a small part was put down to him being a late starter in aviation.

I am certainly not saying that you should not go flying and live your dreams, I am say that you should be realistic. There are many younger pilots who are well qualified and you are up against them in the race to occupy a seat in an airliner. Be wise with your outlook and see it from the recruiters viewpoint. Would you recruit a younger pilot who would give you a Captain of the future or a person who would be very restricted by their age with little chance of becoming a Captain in the airline.

These words are not meant to put people off living your dreams, I only write these words because I truley believe that, if you are much above 30, then you will be rather restricted in your future career and not fulfil your dream. Do not pay for a type rating and waste your life savings getting there to be poorly rewarded thereafter.

Do what you do that makes you a reasonable living and go and do some "real flying for fun". Hitting 40s and especially 50s, the airlines know that you are harder to keep medically certified and you are inexperienced, harder to mould into the ideal stereotype company pilot, all this makes you a less attractive prospective employee.

Good luck in your decisions, I write this with more than 2 decades of airlines experience and this is just an honest opinion from myself. If I were you now, the above is what I would do as sadly, there is age discrimination in the airlines and should you get your ATPL, you would not be financially or self rewarded in a decent job thereafter.

Please do note shoot the messenger, I am trying to be honest and open about the industry today and your chances of making it work.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 16:58
  #434 (permalink)  
 
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Hi mr Schidt
Does your advice apply to other pilot jobs, like Bizjets or aerial work?
Thanks
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 07:09
  #435 (permalink)  
 
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Hello,

If you can gain a license and get rewarded for carrying out your hobby, ie flying then good for you. The question is, will the hardwork, investment and future career path available to you, be worth you doing it? Be honest with yourself as it is you who will benefit or lose from your decisions. Do not let your heart bankrupt your bank by investing in this route if you will regret it later.

I am sorry to say that or to be negative in this thread, I wish all of you the joy of flight but I certainly do not wish anyone here go ahead and regret a poor decision in the future. Age is a factor on your employability and with age should come experience. In my airline, some of the "career first officers" are those older FO's who just can't get to grips with the trade as they have become less adaptable to quick learning and change as they have become older. With this fact in mind, many airlines post restrictions on recruiting FO's because of that fact, unless they have a lifetime of experience and are able to cope/adapt. Many FO's around 40+ and who were late starters to the flying career, would normally have at least 5000hrs or so to be able to move into a decent position for reward in the airline business.

Aviation recruiters, no matter which flying field it is are always out to hire the low experienced guys for nothing and selling yourself to be airborne is really not worth it. Keep a good career and fly for fun and enjoy the flying.

Unfortunately in todays "very competitive" world, we all need to hold a position that will reward us finacially and perhaps support a family. I am not familiar with other areas of aviation other than the airlines over the last 2 decades and so I am sorry I am not qualified to comment on other areas of recruitment.

Simply put, for me I would today consider 35 to be the absolute TOP age that I think it would be worthwhile getting into an avaition career today. The prospects of a reasonable salary with a command might take you 10 to 20 years depending on where you go. Looong flights and sleepless nights is the reality. I have just come back off a 14+ hour flight and my definition of fatigue is... you have a good sleep and after you wake up you still feel tired and can't shake that feeling. There are better ways to make a living and enjoy your hobby.
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Old 24th Oct 2014, 08:30
  #436 (permalink)  
 
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Does your advice apply to other pilot jobs, like Bizjets or aerial work?
Bizjets can be harder to get in to than the airlines. It's not a training ground for would be airbus drivers. Most corporations look for experience, as do insurance companies. There are obviously exceptions.

The advice of the above poster is sound.
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Old 31st Oct 2014, 23:04
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A sense of perspective

The non-cadet wannabees and especially the 'late starters' should thing long and hard before throwing all they have at a pilot career. I struggle to think of any other career path where a self funded training of £100k doesn't guarantee a job at the end of it.

At the age of 25 I decided to abandon my day job in industry. Some eighteeen months later I had a CPL, IR, had passed the ATPL and Perf A, but I had no luck in securing even an interview with an airline. After some months, I realised that these qualifications were only a start, and the propect of spending more money to earn almost nothing as an instructor wasn't really an attractive prospect.

Conversely, it was straightforward to go back to an engineering career in mobile comms. I worked another year in England, then nine years in South Africa, Jordan, Lebanon, Czech, Brazil, Sweden before returning to the UK. And being paid >£100k all the while. I flew in all those countries, bar Jordan, often flying myself to jobs. And flying was far less restricted in all those countries, except for Lebanon.

It's now 22 years since that CPL was issued, and the idea of being an airline pilot no longer appeals - unsociable hours, uncertain leave dates, these would all be parts of the job that I can see would not be conducive to good health and harmonious family life. Once kids come along, these things really matter.

Don't misunderstand me, I really enjoyed the flying training. I still love to fly - PA34 and anything single engine, and I know I'm a much more capable pilot now than I was then. The IR renewal still works me harder than anything else I do all year. But airlines are an Operation, where's the Creativity in that? And surely the risk of failing the medical rises with age, what would one's options be if the Class 1 was lost?

In summary, with age, my business head understands that ultimately one should invest energy into the career where one can make most returns. The head should overrule the heart. It's insane to believe that spending £100k on training will automatically lead to a well paid airline job. The mere fact that this situation exists should tell you that the market is oversupplied with applicants.

To all those more mature people that are considering a career change, concentrate on what you are best at. Ulimately any job can be tedious, so don't waste time and effort trying to jump ship.

Oh, has anyone analysed divorce statistics for pilots? Surely it's higher than the general population? Is that a price worth paying?

Sorry if this comes over as a rant. I just want to advise any one to think long and hard before jeopardising their family, or remortgaging their house.
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Old 17th Nov 2014, 19:08
  #438 (permalink)  
 
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Hello,

ok so I don't want to turn this post into a 'Am I to old to become a pilot' post ! As you can see from my profile I've just turned 37. Like most on here I read all on the net about the age limit to become a pilot, you read 'your way to old to start in your 30's or 40's then you read the 'I know a few F/O's who started to train in their 40's !'

I've been thinking about doing my PPL and a career change for a few years but for one reason or another the PPL hasn't happened until a few months ago although I'd done the odd trial lesson before. I'm currently doing my PPL with a local school and I really enjoy it, my current job is well paid and pretty secure with a trade behind me but again like most it's not what I want to be doing for another 20-25 years. As I'm doing my PPL in my spare time and funded by myself I'll hope to complete it before I'm 38 !

My question is once I've completed the PPL what or where can I realistically get or do in an aviation job at my age ? Obviously I know I'll have to do more training on what I do but I'm a bit confused on where I can get and if I should do it or just treat it as a hobby but then I'd still be looking to change my career !

Thank you.
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Old 17th Nov 2014, 19:22
  #439 (permalink)  
 
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While it is possible to get work at this age, it's very difficult to get work that allows you to maintain a normal lifestyle without selling your house, because maintaining a mortgage in one part of the country while renting in another part of the country on pay of between £20-24,000 isn't possible.
I speak from experience, having got my first commercial flying job at 39. I am now in a position where I have to decide whether to sell my house or leave commercial aviation to go back to my previous career. The pay there wasn't fantastic, but it did allow me to live at home and it did cover my living costs.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 22:23
  #440 (permalink)  
 
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Would 23 years of age be too late to start airline pilot training?

I'll be around 23 by the time I graduate from university. Assuming that, no matter what anyone says about the industry, I still have the passion to become a pilot, would I be too old?

I honestly think I'm one of those people who will always have the flying bug...

EDIT: I am also assuming that I will have the funds to start training. Since I probably won't have any money, I doubt I will pursue flying as a career. But this is just a hypothetical question.
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