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M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA

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M1 Visa or no Visa and SEVIS approved schools in the USA

Old 9th Dec 2012, 15:40
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if there has been any changes in visa requirements for TSA CAT 4 flight training status for aliens
No known change.
However only the US authorities can provide a definitive response.
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Old 12th Dec 2012, 21:04
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Unhappy

Thanks for the feedback Gomrath but part of the problem is establishing a clear channel of communications with the authorities. Most of the lines of comms are essentialy one way through auto response computers and the embassies and consulates are inaccessable as sources of info.
A little thread drift here am trying to locate any B727 simulators that are outside North America have tried other threads but the info is outdated.
Any one out there in the know? Thanks again
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Old 23rd Dec 2012, 20:00
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Flying in USA

Can someone tell me about getting a CPL in USA ? I hold a UK PPL and I'm trying to go to USA and get a CPL! I don't have any information about how things work over USA , basically I'm hopping to get a license where I can work for airliner in countries where the accept FAA license ! And I would like to gt some information regarding visas or changing my jaa ppl to USA ppl what r the procedures ? Can someone please write to me and explain what do I need to do?,! Thanks everyone
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 16:56
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Hey Everyone,
Im new on here and have been reading up alot on taking my PPL in FL and i have picked my FTO, sorted my medical and i am just about to start the visa process.

Before i do this i just want to check that i cant use my C1/D or B1/B2 visa that i already have as i am cabin crew for an airline?

Im sorry if this has been answered before

Thanks
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 17:03
  #145 (permalink)  
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For sure not on a B1/B2 business/visitor visa.
A C1/D crew visa is also no good.

I find it somewhat surprising that you have picked your FTO and only now this comes up?
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 17:55
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Thanks very much.
I never really gave my visa much thought before as i use it for work but i just wanted to double check this was the case.
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 20:51
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Another one stupid question regaring flight training and business visa.

I'm holding B1/B2 visa. I'm going to visit the US in the nearest future for business needs. I'm going to stay for about 2 months and I'd like to spend my free time for private pilot license training.

Ok, it is not legal with my visa. I can't change my visa to M1 because I'm going for business needs and I won't be able to attend at Part 141 school.

Is there any legal step towards private pilot certification in my case?
Can I take some hours training without certification (of course with TSA clearance)?
Can I get some other kind of certification? For example, recreational or sport pilot.

Thanks for help!
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Old 7th Jan 2013, 13:09
  #148 (permalink)  
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Why would you not be able to attend a Part 141 school?
I would say it is a whole lot easier to do your flying on a M1 visa with business on the side then doing your business on a B1/B2 and illegally training.
The school will get a slap on the wrist and the student is eligible for deportation with a visa violation.

Even here you will get answers from people who have done it that way or even claim it is legal but there are playing with fire.
Easy to say its Ok to go do it when you are not the one to be deported.
Despite all teh grey areas or percieved holes in the laws; training towards the issuance of a license or rating requires the correct visa.

On Friday, April 12, 2002, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued an Interim rule through the Federal Register (Vol. 67, No.71) proposing to amend 8 CFR Parts 214 and 248. This amendment requires a change of status from any non-immigrant visitor visa (B-1 or B-2) to a student visa (F-1 of M-1) prior to pursuing a course of study.

Last edited by B2N2; 7th Jan 2013 at 13:10.
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Old 12th Jan 2013, 12:03
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Part 61 FAA PPL

Hi all,

I have read all 10 pages of this post and found it most educational. Thanks so much. I think I have got most of the answers but would appreciate if SoCal App, B2N2 or Gomrath could clarify my particular situation.

I am intending to go to FL, US in July 2013 for family vacation and to do my FAA PPL while there. PPL intended for VFR recreational flying only. I am going for approx 4 weeks. I have quite a bit of aviation experience but hold no qualification and have only a few hours officially logged under CAA.

I have scheduled a FAA Class 2 medical and student licence to take place in a week or so. The flight school I have decided upon (but haven't commited to yet) are Part 141 and can issue an I-20. I realise that I will need M1 Visa and TSA.

I know it was briefly discussed earlier but I just need to clarify if I can do Part 61 training as Part 141 training probably could not be accomlished in my 4 week travel period. I would like to start the ground school at home before travelling, would this allow me to do a Part 61 when I get out there.

Your valuable opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by johnnyirvine; 14th Jan 2013 at 13:08.
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Old 12th Jan 2013, 20:18
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training

The regulations specifically address training for a certificate or rating. You can fly while you are in the US, but you would need to have either an M1 or F1 to apply for the rating.

We recently went over this with SEVIS and ICE for a similar situation.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 12:29
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Visa information

The requirements for obtaining any visa are separate from the requirements of the TSA alien flight training rule.

According to INS regulations, Title 8 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 214.2(b)(7), any alien who is permitted to enter the United States on a B-1 or B-2 visitor's status visa is prohibited from enrolling in a course of study. Such an alien must an either obtain an F-1 or M-1 non-immigrant visa from a consular officer abroad and seek readmission to the United States, or apply for and obtain a change of status under section 248 of the Act and 8 CFR part 248. The alien may not enroll in the course of study until the Service has admitted the alien as an F-1 or M-1 nonimmigrant or has approved the alien's application.

Part 141 Flight Schools. Only FAA Certificated Part 141 and/or 142 schools that are approved and participating in the Student and Exchange Visa Information Service (SEVIS) program are authorized to issue an I-20 form to a prospective student upon their enrollment into a course, which the prospective student needs to request the change of status and receive the subsequent Student Visa.

Part 61 Flight Schools and Independent Flight Instructors. Part 61 flight schools and independent flight instructors may train a foreign national if that alien is a Legal Permanent Resident or in a work status (H-type visa) with extended stay privileges or a refugee in Asylum status with appropriate DHS documentation. They also may train a foreign national on an F-1 (academic visa) provided that the student is still enrolled and attending the college or university as shown on the F-1 and the student has notified SEVIS of the additional training being received at a non-SEVIS approved school.
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Old 20th Jan 2013, 16:23
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Originally Posted by SFDOC
The regulations specifically address training for a certificate or rating. You can fly while you are in the US, but you would need to have either an M1 or F1 to apply for the rating.
Not true. Training may not commence without either the appropriate visa or TSA (if the training in question requires TSA).
A foreign student wanting to undertake training - can only log the flight as a scenic flight - not as training until such time as the visa/TSA is in place.
TSA will not issue the magic words "may commence training' until they are satisfied the visa etc is in place.
The flight school would be held responsible if they were to commence that training without ensuring that paperwork was in place. They are required to take copies of that paperwork and hold them on file in readiness for a subsequent audit.
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Old 21st Jan 2013, 07:35
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Hi everyone

I have a small query regarding the B1/B2 visa

I have been to the US twice before .

The first time was on an M1 visa for flight training . The second time on a B1/B2 visa for about 20-25 hours of flying ( as required by the Indian DGCA to be current before converting a license )

When I went for the visa interview for the B1/B2 visa the interviewer told me that she sees no reason to reject my case however put me on ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSING , gave me pink slip with a bunch of questions and asked me to email the answers to them .
They withheld my passport with them .

I came back home , emailed the questions and one month later my visa was approved and they sent my passport back home with the annotation CLEARANCE RECEIVED . The visa had a validity of 1 year . Normally they give it for 10 years .

At the time of the interview the consular officer told me to renew the visa before it expires or upto 1 year after it expires and I should receive a B1/B2 visa for 10 years .

I have two questions

1) Should I renew the visa ?
While the visa expired in Dec 2012 , I have until Dec 2013 to decide whether to a get a new one or not .
I have no reason to visit the US in the near future . I have some relatives who have been asking me to come and pay them a visit for quite some time but other than that I have no other reason to present my case to a Consular Officer as to why I want to renew my visa .
I am also afraid that in case my application is rejected it might dampen my chances of getting another visa ( should I need one somewhere down the line )

2) On the visa application form it asks if I have ever been denied a US visa ?While application was not denied , it was put on hold pending a security clearance .
Do i answer YES or NO

All answers will be appreciated
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 16:01
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Originally Posted by cyrilroy21
I have a small query regarding the B1/B2 visa
To be honest nobody can give you any answers here. Only you know your own personal circumstances and you have to make your own decisions.
If the US Embassy/Consulate had cause to investigate your application - they must have had good reason and we don't need to know.
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 06:09
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TSA Vs Visa

Gomrath,

You are correct about the TSA item. I was simply responding to the Visa Question, I should have included that.

Also, as the new user above you (Yeah Right) a Part 61 school can provide M1 Visa training.

The Part 141 language just recently came out, and there are a number of items that Yeah Right did not include.
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 19:42
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Originally Posted by sfdoc
a Part 61 school can provide M1 Visa training
Completely wrong.
A Part 61 school cannot provide M1 Visa training unless they have a Part 141 application in process - for the simple reason that Part 61 School cannot sponsor a foreign student for the issuance of a M1 visa in the first instance.
However a SEVIS approved Part 141 School can train the foreign student under Part 61 regulations if the student wishes.
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Old 3rd Feb 2013, 12:19
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Yeah112 And Gomrath what do you make of the advice on this website: Visitor Visas - Business and Pleasure

It says provided the course does not lead to credit for a degree and is recreational and no more than 18 hours a week a visit/business visa is ok

"if the purpose of your planned travel is recreational in nature, including tourism, vacation (holiday), amusement, visits with friends or relatives, rest, medical treatment, activities of a fraternal, social, or service nature, and participation by amateurs, who will receive no remuneration, in musical, sports and similar events or contests, then a visitor visa (B-2) would be the appropriate type of visa for your travel. If you are going to the U.S. primarily for tourism, but want to take a short course of study which is recreational (and not for credit towards a degree), and*the course is less than 18 hours per week, this is permitted on a visitor visa."

Of course for initial certificate issue (including conversion from 61.75 to standalone certificate, IR or MEL) would require TSA approval (and the school to be TSA registered)....and Part 61 only schools are entitled to register as Provider Admin

The gotcha may be that the TSA will only advise training can commence after it is satisfied that you have a suitable visa...And they, not the INS may be of the opinion that a visitor visa is not acceptable?

Last edited by awqward; 3rd Feb 2013 at 15:32.
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Old 4th Feb 2013, 21:14
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Getting a private is hardly recreational study - it is full time, well over 18 hours a week - most of our students study 12-15 hours a day.

It is not incidental to the purpose of your visit.

And immigration know this - there are plenty of people black listed from the USA for this offense.

Last edited by BigGrecian; 4th Feb 2013 at 21:23.
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Old 4th Feb 2013, 21:26
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Getting a private is hardly recreational study - it is full time, well over 18 hours a week - most of our students study 12-15 hours a day.
Yes but if you already have a EASA licence it should only require 5 or 6 hours including the flight test.....and this could easily be something which is incidental to the main purpose of your visit ie business or vacation...

After all, in the post-911 world, the US is more concerned with the training of pilots which is why the TSA undertake background checks....it is not about immigration law (which has not changed)

Last edited by awqward; 4th Feb 2013 at 21:29.
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Old 7th Feb 2013, 14:45
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Good day all,

Many thanks for the thread. It is very informative. Thank you.
I have a little bit of a different situation which I am trying to seek clarity on, please.

I am currently on a F-1 visa with a school working towards my HCPL. I have 20 hours (or so) until 100 hours PIC, when I can apply for the CPL Check Ride (as long as my CFI signs me off). For several reasons and matters of circumstance, I cannot complete my training with my current school and am planning on changing to a different school on a M-1 visa. I have been on the F-1 visa for longer than 6 months, so have been informed that my current school (F-1) that they cannot transfer my SEVIS to the new school (M-1). I have applied for a Change of Status through the Form I-539, but I am not sure this will be approved in time.

My current school has said they will cancel my visa and SEVIS, which means I will need to leave the US and apply for a M-1 visa in my home country. However, I have been told by the new school that I can go to Nassau, Bahamas and re-enter the US on the I-20 which they have already raised for me and there is no need to apply for the M-1 visa. Is this correct?

What about SEVIS? Do I need to reapply? Will it be the same with the TSA?

I have completed my FAA PPL/IR since being in the US. I am only wanting to finish up my CPL before returning to my home country. I am on a UK passport.

I have scheduled an appointment with an Immigration Officer at the USCIS office, but after reading this thread, I have seen that they are not always known to provide incorrect information. I am just trying to line my ducks in a row and am wanting to finish my training in the correct legal manner. I do not want to cause any issues with the respective authorities.

Any information or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards.
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