Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!
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Man its a lot more simple to understand. If you are self-sponsored go modular in the UK because you can choose a very well known providers (like ProPilot and PAT) and then do the FI rating for half the price and the chances at the end of the training are the same (maybe Easyjet are the only one who won't hire you, but who cares?).
And for the UK... well in my opinion as a PPL holder from Spain the better standards of training in the EASA world are in the UK so I will carry on my training there (Propilot and PAT).
Doing and Integrated course in my opinion is a waste of money because you end with just 150 hours (you need 200 hours to get the FI rating for instance) and in the end almost the 80% of OAA or FTE graduates end up with Ryanair which you can go modular as well. The only airline who cares about modular or integrated is Easyjet, then you need to have a look at the modular schools which has a partnership with flybe (PAT).
As for the UK only debate... I know several instructors in my aeroclub in Barcelona (spain) who had gone to Vueling this month (5 flight instructors and 1 corporate pilot) so there are more world apart from the UK ones and Ryanair, but you need to speak more languages which most english pilots do not.
Bear in mind that I am just a crappy PPL! My information comes up after been reading and researching during 2 or 3 years.
Best of luck and sorry for my english (another reason to carry on your training in the uk).
And for the UK... well in my opinion as a PPL holder from Spain the better standards of training in the EASA world are in the UK so I will carry on my training there (Propilot and PAT).
Doing and Integrated course in my opinion is a waste of money because you end with just 150 hours (you need 200 hours to get the FI rating for instance) and in the end almost the 80% of OAA or FTE graduates end up with Ryanair which you can go modular as well. The only airline who cares about modular or integrated is Easyjet, then you need to have a look at the modular schools which has a partnership with flybe (PAT).
As for the UK only debate... I know several instructors in my aeroclub in Barcelona (spain) who had gone to Vueling this month (5 flight instructors and 1 corporate pilot) so there are more world apart from the UK ones and Ryanair, but you need to speak more languages which most english pilots do not.
Bear in mind that I am just a crappy PPL! My information comes up after been reading and researching during 2 or 3 years.
Best of luck and sorry for my english (another reason to carry on your training in the uk).
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Trojancat.
Your question has caused me to also re-read this entire thread again from onset (which does take a while!) There really isn't anything tangible I would change to what has already been said. I am afraid some of your questions are beyond my own experience portfolio so I would seek advice from those more familiar with the specific airlines and countries that you are referring to.
As you say much of the information is UK-centric simply because many of the contributors operate within this arena. Generally speaking not much has changed in the last two years, and from my perspective I would say it has worsened considerably but perhaps less so from the cadet standpoint. The ongoing recession continues to squeeze the marketplace, and opportunities are still few and far between.
Those (UK) airlines with cadet programmes, continue to concentrate recruitment from the main three FTO's in this marketplace. Events over the last few weeks have (as a consequence) caused some airlines (and I am sure others will follow) to tighten up on their psychometric and background checks for new recruits. For cadets this is an easy and quick process as it largely devolves to the FTO's.
1) "Tagged programmes" tend to be those cadet programmes where the candidate is pre-selected by the placement airline. There are other cadet programmes ("wings etc.") where the candidate isn't "tagged" as such to any particular operator, but it is intended that on successful completion (and subject to vacancies at that time) they would be placed with one of that FTO's partner airlines. These programmes tend to be ab-initio and depending on the specific requirements of any given programme are likely to have a limit on a candidates pre-existing experience. Some credit may well be given with regards to any pre-existing experience, however they are not aimed at pilots with significant amounts of post PPL experience and certainly not existing CPL holders. These cadet programmes are almost always full time integrated courses of training with a partner FTO.
2) The distinction here is that airlines are not generally looking for low hour CPL/IR or fATPL holders outside of their recognised cadet schemes. The vacancies that arise in this (heavily squeezed) section of the market tend to be for pilots with significant levels of airline experience. For most airlines recruiting outside of their cadet programmes just doesn't happen in the low hour market.
3) Bearing in mind the comments already made, it would be a case of seeing where your target employers do their recruitment from in the particular segment of the marketplace that you feel is relevant to you. Middle Eastern airlines (such as Emirates) are "Apex" consumers of pilots on a global basis, but tend to set their benchmark minima in the established segment of the marketplace. By that, I mean they tend to look for a 2500 hour minimum tariff with significant airline or turbine experience to form a part of the candidates experience profile. They have little trouble recruiting very experienced pilots in the global marketplace, and for those recruits at the lower end of the scale, they are likely to place some significance on the training background.
Looking abroad is always a good idea as it is a very difficult marketplace and opportunities are few. Where they do arise they tend to be for particularly well experienced pilots to satisfy shortfalls in that particular segment of their own domestic markets. For example, the Middle East and China. The problem at the other end of the scale is finding arenas where the candidate has the right to work, even if work can be found.
4) Again I would make the point that the cadet programmes are integrated programmes and if that is what you are looking at, then it costs whatever it costs and that has to be a decision you make based on your circumstances and the availability of those programmes that might be open to you. There are no guarantees with any of them, but placements tend to be reasonably good with most of the established ones. Bear in mind that placements are also part of the advanced training and whether or not a job dovetails from that placement will again depend on performance and the market conditions at that company at that particular point in time.
5) I would say that the situation since 2013 is in my opinion slightly worse but broadly similar. I would think very long and hard before making any commitments, and as always research, research, research!
Your question has caused me to also re-read this entire thread again from onset (which does take a while!) There really isn't anything tangible I would change to what has already been said. I am afraid some of your questions are beyond my own experience portfolio so I would seek advice from those more familiar with the specific airlines and countries that you are referring to.
As you say much of the information is UK-centric simply because many of the contributors operate within this arena. Generally speaking not much has changed in the last two years, and from my perspective I would say it has worsened considerably but perhaps less so from the cadet standpoint. The ongoing recession continues to squeeze the marketplace, and opportunities are still few and far between.
Those (UK) airlines with cadet programmes, continue to concentrate recruitment from the main three FTO's in this marketplace. Events over the last few weeks have (as a consequence) caused some airlines (and I am sure others will follow) to tighten up on their psychometric and background checks for new recruits. For cadets this is an easy and quick process as it largely devolves to the FTO's.
1) "Tagged programmes" tend to be those cadet programmes where the candidate is pre-selected by the placement airline. There are other cadet programmes ("wings etc.") where the candidate isn't "tagged" as such to any particular operator, but it is intended that on successful completion (and subject to vacancies at that time) they would be placed with one of that FTO's partner airlines. These programmes tend to be ab-initio and depending on the specific requirements of any given programme are likely to have a limit on a candidates pre-existing experience. Some credit may well be given with regards to any pre-existing experience, however they are not aimed at pilots with significant amounts of post PPL experience and certainly not existing CPL holders. These cadet programmes are almost always full time integrated courses of training with a partner FTO.
2) The distinction here is that airlines are not generally looking for low hour CPL/IR or fATPL holders outside of their recognised cadet schemes. The vacancies that arise in this (heavily squeezed) section of the market tend to be for pilots with significant levels of airline experience. For most airlines recruiting outside of their cadet programmes just doesn't happen in the low hour market.
3) Bearing in mind the comments already made, it would be a case of seeing where your target employers do their recruitment from in the particular segment of the marketplace that you feel is relevant to you. Middle Eastern airlines (such as Emirates) are "Apex" consumers of pilots on a global basis, but tend to set their benchmark minima in the established segment of the marketplace. By that, I mean they tend to look for a 2500 hour minimum tariff with significant airline or turbine experience to form a part of the candidates experience profile. They have little trouble recruiting very experienced pilots in the global marketplace, and for those recruits at the lower end of the scale, they are likely to place some significance on the training background.
Looking abroad is always a good idea as it is a very difficult marketplace and opportunities are few. Where they do arise they tend to be for particularly well experienced pilots to satisfy shortfalls in that particular segment of their own domestic markets. For example, the Middle East and China. The problem at the other end of the scale is finding arenas where the candidate has the right to work, even if work can be found.
4) Again I would make the point that the cadet programmes are integrated programmes and if that is what you are looking at, then it costs whatever it costs and that has to be a decision you make based on your circumstances and the availability of those programmes that might be open to you. There are no guarantees with any of them, but placements tend to be reasonably good with most of the established ones. Bear in mind that placements are also part of the advanced training and whether or not a job dovetails from that placement will again depend on performance and the market conditions at that company at that particular point in time.
5) I would say that the situation since 2013 is in my opinion slightly worse but broadly similar. I would think very long and hard before making any commitments, and as always research, research, research!
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Gents,
Appreciate all the information posted in this thread, it is invaluable to a newcomer such as myself (long time viewer, never posted).
I seem to get the feeling most people are pro modular route, as they do not see the added value of paying an extra 20K or so to go integrated. My personal situation has led me to this thread with a question...
If money isn't the main driver behind the choice to go Modular or Integrated what is the best method to take, if the desired goal is to work at the airlines as soon as possible.
... What I've gathered so far... Modular is a lot cheaper and is much more flexible around where you train, the quality can be hit and miss and ultimately there isn't the pressure of having to pay the additional 20K or so for going integrated at the big three schools.
I've got two assessment days coming up, one at OAA and one at CTC for each companies Integrated zero to fATPL course. I'm not totally convinced this is the right way to go, as ultimately you come out with the same bits of paper at the end of each course (Integrated or Modular). The only gains I see for integrated are: Full time and focus on the training in hand, Airline preferred training (so I've read), and a higher possibility of a job since some of the airlines are exclusively selecting low hour pilots from their respective preferred FTO.
With that in mind - I'm 20, hold a PPL, have a good backup career and a good wedge of savings to help me should I be waiting a while for an interview. I'm looking at the next step and can't really find the answer that will influence the decision. Which method would you advise?
Thanks!
Appreciate all the information posted in this thread, it is invaluable to a newcomer such as myself (long time viewer, never posted).
I seem to get the feeling most people are pro modular route, as they do not see the added value of paying an extra 20K or so to go integrated. My personal situation has led me to this thread with a question...
If money isn't the main driver behind the choice to go Modular or Integrated what is the best method to take, if the desired goal is to work at the airlines as soon as possible.
... What I've gathered so far... Modular is a lot cheaper and is much more flexible around where you train, the quality can be hit and miss and ultimately there isn't the pressure of having to pay the additional 20K or so for going integrated at the big three schools.
I've got two assessment days coming up, one at OAA and one at CTC for each companies Integrated zero to fATPL course. I'm not totally convinced this is the right way to go, as ultimately you come out with the same bits of paper at the end of each course (Integrated or Modular). The only gains I see for integrated are: Full time and focus on the training in hand, Airline preferred training (so I've read), and a higher possibility of a job since some of the airlines are exclusively selecting low hour pilots from their respective preferred FTO.
With that in mind - I'm 20, hold a PPL, have a good backup career and a good wedge of savings to help me should I be waiting a while for an interview. I'm looking at the next step and can't really find the answer that will influence the decision. Which method would you advise?
Thanks!
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Ryan/flybe seem to be the major uk guys that will hire low hour pilots (that aren't on a special scheme)and the have no issue with int/mod. This year they have hired huge numbers of pilots that went down both routes.
Also on the mod route, the big schools offer the modular route also OAA waypoint programe and CTC offer similar so that way you can save some money and keep a big name school for the cv.
Also on the mod route, the big schools offer the modular route also OAA waypoint programe and CTC offer similar so that way you can save some money and keep a big name school for the cv.
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I remember a time I played rythm guitar in a band, we supported some bigger act from the USA. After the show we started talking to them, they pay to play in California, they have to pay for the venue and get lots of freinds and family to show up and support them, they spend a lot and save up for it,usually making a loss, in the hope that eventually they can be big enough to get paid...I thought how bizarre. I started realising F1 drivers are half expected to bring sponsorship with them...the price for a degree in the UK now..dont do both, either degree or pilot training, both would be an enourmous burden of debt. Its a sad world but there seems to be a growing expectation for a minimum entrance price into the path you choose..do I like it no!!...
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Hints ans tips.
I have been reading a lot of posts recently and I was looking for some clarification. I have done my homework before anyone says read the forum.
I am 25 years of age. I stay in the UK. I have started making efforts to gain my PPL through my local flying club and had intended on gaining a fATPL through the modular route. I've got it planned out to complete within 2 years (weather permitting of course) whilst working a full time job.
Been in my flying club recently and I overheard a number of experienced guys (flight instructors, modular trained folk and integrated trained folk who completed their training many years ago) mentioning that the modular route was a waste of time now. The modular folk had no chance of getting jobs as airlines now only look for integrated folk. One guy mentioned that it is CTC integrated folk that are getting the jobs.
When I planned out I would go modular I felt confident about my decision and that I knew I would have to work hard and start from the bottom and work my way up before I could probally secure a big airline job, unless I struck lucky and got an airline job off from the start. Now I feel like I'm making the wrong decision by going modular and that it will be a waste of time as airline wont look at my CV.
My questions are;
1) except from the cost, is there really any difference between integrated and modular folk?
2) after gaining some more hours towards your name along with experience, wether that be under or over the 1500 hours TT threshold, do airlines really care where you trained or which route you took?
3) for those of you who are in the flight decks, do you come across many modular guys who have recently completed their training?
Any other advice is welcome.
I am 25 years of age. I stay in the UK. I have started making efforts to gain my PPL through my local flying club and had intended on gaining a fATPL through the modular route. I've got it planned out to complete within 2 years (weather permitting of course) whilst working a full time job.
Been in my flying club recently and I overheard a number of experienced guys (flight instructors, modular trained folk and integrated trained folk who completed their training many years ago) mentioning that the modular route was a waste of time now. The modular folk had no chance of getting jobs as airlines now only look for integrated folk. One guy mentioned that it is CTC integrated folk that are getting the jobs.
When I planned out I would go modular I felt confident about my decision and that I knew I would have to work hard and start from the bottom and work my way up before I could probally secure a big airline job, unless I struck lucky and got an airline job off from the start. Now I feel like I'm making the wrong decision by going modular and that it will be a waste of time as airline wont look at my CV.
My questions are;
1) except from the cost, is there really any difference between integrated and modular folk?
2) after gaining some more hours towards your name along with experience, wether that be under or over the 1500 hours TT threshold, do airlines really care where you trained or which route you took?
3) for those of you who are in the flight decks, do you come across many modular guys who have recently completed their training?
Any other advice is welcome.
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Plenty of modular who have trained at small but well known small flying school in EGHH are being hired by Flybe!
Integrateds from OAA/FTE are being hired by Ryanair as well as modulars by the way! FTE is even worst because they are lacking of instructors so the standards are going down dramatically.
Some FTE are cadets of Volotea for the privilege of 140.000€!!!
Work your ladder or pay your way! It's your decision, but guess what route will be more challenging and rewarding!
Integrateds from OAA/FTE are being hired by Ryanair as well as modulars by the way! FTE is even worst because they are lacking of instructors so the standards are going down dramatically.
Some FTE are cadets of Volotea for the privilege of 140.000€!!!
Work your ladder or pay your way! It's your decision, but guess what route will be more challenging and rewarding!
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Sam14,
I think I have to agree with the last two comments on here, although not in that position myself having read various posts from pilots currently in the business its very possible to land jobs going modular.
I have since changed stance on Integrated and working towards Modular. Hours seem to be key in getting ahead of the rest, possibly aim for a regional carrier where jobs may be easier to come by newly qualified. The crazy costs you will rack up by going Integrated at one of the three big schools will put regional work out of reach as the repayments are in excess of £1000 pcm.
If you are fortunate enough to have the thick end of £100,000 knocking about go for the Integrated route, but expect to have another £20,000 added to that for a type rating. I see the financial cons far outweigh the pros of the big three schools 'Airline Connections' of which your not forced to actually get a job.
I'd keep the training costs down, getting hours in the book until the job arrives. You'll probably have enough money left to pay for the type rating that way too.
I think I have to agree with the last two comments on here, although not in that position myself having read various posts from pilots currently in the business its very possible to land jobs going modular.
I have since changed stance on Integrated and working towards Modular. Hours seem to be key in getting ahead of the rest, possibly aim for a regional carrier where jobs may be easier to come by newly qualified. The crazy costs you will rack up by going Integrated at one of the three big schools will put regional work out of reach as the repayments are in excess of £1000 pcm.
If you are fortunate enough to have the thick end of £100,000 knocking about go for the Integrated route, but expect to have another £20,000 added to that for a type rating. I see the financial cons far outweigh the pros of the big three schools 'Airline Connections' of which your not forced to actually get a job.
I'd keep the training costs down, getting hours in the book until the job arrives. You'll probably have enough money left to pay for the type rating that way too.
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.
hi folks....
spinking about modular and integrated.
having hours on multi engine multi crew and a PPL with ME/IR Atpl theory passed medical mcc etc etc....is it possible to have released a full ATPL after a skill test or do i have to hold a CPL to be elegible for the skill test?
Is this a sort of a modular path?
Tnx a lot
spinking about modular and integrated.
having hours on multi engine multi crew and a PPL with ME/IR Atpl theory passed medical mcc etc etc....is it possible to have released a full ATPL after a skill test or do i have to hold a CPL to be elegible for the skill test?
Is this a sort of a modular path?
Tnx a lot
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My modular costs
I have been a long time stalker on this site and only an occasional poster.
When I first started training I was an avid reader of these threads. Finally today I tallied up all my payments and thought it only fair I contribute them here.
My personal situation meant the only route for me was the modular one. I started training in September 2010 and I am just about to finish line training.
All my training was in the UK at a selection of locations.
Figures below are purely flight time and instruction.
PPL + Hours........£12,343.91
ATPL Theory.......£5,624.00
CPL/IR...............£27,252.19
FI.....................£6,925.17
MCC..................£1,849.00
Total.................£52,145.27
Now if you want to add in the cost of; Approach/Landing fees, accomodation, travel, maps, and other products form the likes of Pooleys/AFE etc the costs look more like this.
PPL + Hours........£15,791.00
ATPL Theory.......£8,518.14
CPL/IR...............£30,737.76
FI.....................£7,223.72
MCC..................£1,849.00
Total.................£64,119.62
Still not a bad price. (The above figures include almost all of my costs, but there is a chance I have missed a few)
PPL was a a small school at Barton EGCB
I did the ATPL's at OAA, there wern't many full time courses available and I wanted the best chance at a decent grade from full time study.
CPL/IR, FI at Tatenhill
MCC White Waltham.
The cost could probably have been less but at least I got to do some aeros, tailwheel. Saw a good chunk of the country. Flew with my mates, my family and gained a heap of experience instructing along the way.
OK yes I have had to pay for the type rating as well, but by spreading my training over the last few years the only debt I have is for the type Rating which will be paid of fairly quickly.
Its been a hard road but I'd definitely recommend it!
When I first started training I was an avid reader of these threads. Finally today I tallied up all my payments and thought it only fair I contribute them here.
My personal situation meant the only route for me was the modular one. I started training in September 2010 and I am just about to finish line training.
All my training was in the UK at a selection of locations.
Figures below are purely flight time and instruction.
PPL + Hours........£12,343.91
ATPL Theory.......£5,624.00
CPL/IR...............£27,252.19
FI.....................£6,925.17
MCC..................£1,849.00
Total.................£52,145.27
Now if you want to add in the cost of; Approach/Landing fees, accomodation, travel, maps, and other products form the likes of Pooleys/AFE etc the costs look more like this.
PPL + Hours........£15,791.00
ATPL Theory.......£8,518.14
CPL/IR...............£30,737.76
FI.....................£7,223.72
MCC..................£1,849.00
Total.................£64,119.62
Still not a bad price. (The above figures include almost all of my costs, but there is a chance I have missed a few)
PPL was a a small school at Barton EGCB
I did the ATPL's at OAA, there wern't many full time courses available and I wanted the best chance at a decent grade from full time study.
CPL/IR, FI at Tatenhill
MCC White Waltham.
The cost could probably have been less but at least I got to do some aeros, tailwheel. Saw a good chunk of the country. Flew with my mates, my family and gained a heap of experience instructing along the way.
OK yes I have had to pay for the type rating as well, but by spreading my training over the last few years the only debt I have is for the type Rating which will be paid of fairly quickly.
Its been a hard road but I'd definitely recommend it!
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Cheers!
Thank you for sharing SpaceMonkey, I hope this encourages more people down the Modular route and illustrates how you can save 25k+ over integrated courses.
That money can then be used for the TR.
That money can then be used for the TR.
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Anybody any info on OAA at the moment? Seems that Aer Lingus have gone with FTE for training their grads, and Wizzair had a scheme have with CTC. Are OAA getting left behind a bit?
Ryanair now have an application window through CTC, also BA CityFlyer - who were previously hiring through OAA (as I understand it). Went to the OAA open day a few months back but has anybody got a recent info for new grads/hiring situation?
Ryanair now have an application window through CTC, also BA CityFlyer - who were previously hiring through OAA (as I understand it). Went to the OAA open day a few months back but has anybody got a recent info for new grads/hiring situation?
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Regarding distance learning (and schools)
Ladies, gents,
I am investigating which school to choose for distance learning ATPL theory.
I came across these ones:
Bristol Ground School official.................2920 Eur
F-Air (CZ)(Oxford aviation)...................1560 "
Bartolini Air (BGS)(HU)........................2250 "
Fly level (RO).....................................3600 "
Flyteam (CZ)......................................1490 "
Dutch Aviation College (NL)...................2995 "
Orbit ground school (NL).......................3095 "
In line of principle I think I will go for the Bristol Ground School material, but I am really puzzled about what dis/advantage any of these schools can offer...
Does anybody has experience with any of them (especially the Dutch ones)?
I am investigating which school to choose for distance learning ATPL theory.
I came across these ones:
Bristol Ground School official.................2920 Eur
F-Air (CZ)(Oxford aviation)...................1560 "
Bartolini Air (BGS)(HU)........................2250 "
Fly level (RO).....................................3600 "
Flyteam (CZ)......................................1490 "
Dutch Aviation College (NL)...................2995 "
Orbit ground school (NL).......................3095 "
In line of principle I think I will go for the Bristol Ground School material, but I am really puzzled about what dis/advantage any of these schools can offer...
Does anybody has experience with any of them (especially the Dutch ones)?
Last edited by Flying Pinguin; 26th Oct 2015 at 10:34.
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Fast Track or stick to modular way ?
Hi,
I hold a PPL with 100 hours PIC.
I’ve passed all ATPL theoretical examination.
So the time has come to chose a school for my CPL IR.
I was more inclined to continue the modular way in a school in the UK, either PAT in Bournemouth or AFT in Exeter.
That was until I saw the fast track option 2 from CTC in partnership with Wizz Air :
Fast-Track Option 2
The total cost is €79,800 with CTC and €39,290 with PAT.
The total amount with CTC does include accommodation, JOC and A320 TR in case of employment with Wizz Air.
If you account for the cost of JOC (8,000 to 10,000 euros), the cost of the Airbus TR (20,000 euros ?) and the cost of accommodation for 6 months, that makes the CTC way approx 7,000 euros more expensive.
Is it worth it ?
I'm soon to be 30 years old and the CTC fast track option seems like a nice way to be FO on jet relatively quickly.
I do understand that employment is not guaranteed and being based somewhere in Romania (Budapest would be nice though) isn't exactly my idea of a dream job but I'll be happy to do that for some time and move on to something else later.
(My dream job would be bizz jet or cargo airline but I don't have enough experience nor is it the right time to be picky.)
I’d like to have your thoughts on this.
What would you choose and why ?
Any thoughts on Wizz, PAT or CTC are welcome.
Thanks !
I hold a PPL with 100 hours PIC.
I’ve passed all ATPL theoretical examination.
So the time has come to chose a school for my CPL IR.
I was more inclined to continue the modular way in a school in the UK, either PAT in Bournemouth or AFT in Exeter.
That was until I saw the fast track option 2 from CTC in partnership with Wizz Air :
Fast-Track Option 2
The total cost is €79,800 with CTC and €39,290 with PAT.
The total amount with CTC does include accommodation, JOC and A320 TR in case of employment with Wizz Air.
If you account for the cost of JOC (8,000 to 10,000 euros), the cost of the Airbus TR (20,000 euros ?) and the cost of accommodation for 6 months, that makes the CTC way approx 7,000 euros more expensive.
Is it worth it ?
I'm soon to be 30 years old and the CTC fast track option seems like a nice way to be FO on jet relatively quickly.
I do understand that employment is not guaranteed and being based somewhere in Romania (Budapest would be nice though) isn't exactly my idea of a dream job but I'll be happy to do that for some time and move on to something else later.
(My dream job would be bizz jet or cargo airline but I don't have enough experience nor is it the right time to be picky.)
I’d like to have your thoughts on this.
What would you choose and why ?
Any thoughts on Wizz, PAT or CTC are welcome.
Thanks !
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NEW OPTION
For those of you researching this age old question, there seems to be a new initiative which you should check out. Have a look at the Wings Alliance thread. They seem to be offering the best of both (integrated and modular) worlds...
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Questions about modular training
Hello
I just finished my master's degree and I am now in a transition phase, where I should decide precisely what to do next (euphemism for saying : looking for a job)
I'm still hesitating to try and become a military pilot, but I think my decision is to try and become an airline pilot as soon as possible.
The most likely scenario is that i will get, in the near future, a job as an aerospace engineer for a french airline, or aircraft manufacturer or similar company (missiles or engine manufacturer).
I have now my PPL-SEP and 135 hours.
The other 65 hours required before the CPL could be very well flown within the next year or so (since engineering is a field that pays enough), and thanks to my master's degree in aerospace engineering and my basic knowledge of aviation, I can easily learn the ATPL theory.
Given this experience, I can't apply for some (most?) programmes with CTC or CAE (there is often an 85 hours limit). But even if i could, would it be wise to pay so much money when i have already paid 15k€ for my flight hours ? I calculated that, from my standpoint, I could get my frozen ATPL without paying more than 30k€, whereas I understand a cadet programme could cost thrice as much.
Now, that question of going for a low cost modular formation or going with the pricier CTC/CAE is further complicated by the following.
I would not like to be in debt. I have the ability to pay these 30k€ in 5 years of working in engineering, or less. I think it would be safer to keep an engineering job and get my pilot's training during my holidays or weekends. This forbids me from going to a flight school that's too far away, like in England..
So I'm guessing you can understand my situation with the previous elements.
Is it wiser to take a greater risk (quit my engineering job) to have a better chance of finding a job (with CTC), or is it wiser to keep an engineering job during my training and until I can find a pilot job ?
Is experience as an aerospace engineer a decisive advantage to get a pilot's job ? Could it positively compensate coming out from an unknown french school ?
Is there any objective element that I might have missed ?
Is there another possible scenario ? Like going to a well known cheap english school for modular courses during my holidays ?
Thanks.
Edit : my post has been moved to this topic but it isn't really about integrated vs modular, since it looks like going integrated would not be a wise option. It's more about expensive english modular school vs my local french school nextdoor
I just finished my master's degree and I am now in a transition phase, where I should decide precisely what to do next (euphemism for saying : looking for a job)
I'm still hesitating to try and become a military pilot, but I think my decision is to try and become an airline pilot as soon as possible.
The most likely scenario is that i will get, in the near future, a job as an aerospace engineer for a french airline, or aircraft manufacturer or similar company (missiles or engine manufacturer).
I have now my PPL-SEP and 135 hours.
The other 65 hours required before the CPL could be very well flown within the next year or so (since engineering is a field that pays enough), and thanks to my master's degree in aerospace engineering and my basic knowledge of aviation, I can easily learn the ATPL theory.
Given this experience, I can't apply for some (most?) programmes with CTC or CAE (there is often an 85 hours limit). But even if i could, would it be wise to pay so much money when i have already paid 15k€ for my flight hours ? I calculated that, from my standpoint, I could get my frozen ATPL without paying more than 30k€, whereas I understand a cadet programme could cost thrice as much.
Now, that question of going for a low cost modular formation or going with the pricier CTC/CAE is further complicated by the following.
I would not like to be in debt. I have the ability to pay these 30k€ in 5 years of working in engineering, or less. I think it would be safer to keep an engineering job and get my pilot's training during my holidays or weekends. This forbids me from going to a flight school that's too far away, like in England..
So I'm guessing you can understand my situation with the previous elements.
Is it wiser to take a greater risk (quit my engineering job) to have a better chance of finding a job (with CTC), or is it wiser to keep an engineering job during my training and until I can find a pilot job ?
Is experience as an aerospace engineer a decisive advantage to get a pilot's job ? Could it positively compensate coming out from an unknown french school ?
Is there any objective element that I might have missed ?
Is there another possible scenario ? Like going to a well known cheap english school for modular courses during my holidays ?
Thanks.
Edit : my post has been moved to this topic but it isn't really about integrated vs modular, since it looks like going integrated would not be a wise option. It's more about expensive english modular school vs my local french school nextdoor
Last edited by KayPam; 30th Dec 2015 at 13:18.
KP, just because you have that experience... doesn't mean you have to declare it to CTC or other FTOs if you go integrated.
I believe now that CTC has got rid of the previous-experience credit where you could cut down part of the basic training course if you already had a PPL and get a bit of a refund.
But there are still people going through with over 100 hours who are just not counting any of those hours towards licence application.
At the end of training when you fill in your licence application form you write down how many hours you have total, how many hours you completed as part of the course, and how many hours you are "claiming". If you do the full integrated course you do the full hours and get the licence, any extra experience on that form is not an issue.
I believe now that CTC has got rid of the previous-experience credit where you could cut down part of the basic training course if you already had a PPL and get a bit of a refund.
But there are still people going through with over 100 hours who are just not counting any of those hours towards licence application.
At the end of training when you fill in your licence application form you write down how many hours you have total, how many hours you completed as part of the course, and how many hours you are "claiming". If you do the full integrated course you do the full hours and get the licence, any extra experience on that form is not an issue.