Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Sounds like a jungle out there! so there are no jobs going at the moment, a good time to get training then. is the outlook for recruitment still as depressing for someone to put together a modular program and aim to finish in two years time? not ignoring the lovely 
icon but obviously want to find out as much as possible before making any decisions.
icon but obviously want to find out as much as possible before making any decisions.
Not only are there no jobs at the moment (apart from £30k pay to fly loco deals) there will be fewer jobs as the economy takes a downturn and more airlines go bust or contract.
Sorry but the £2,000,000,000 Quantitative Easing money is spent, the Eurozone is about to enter a crisis big enough to cause its collapse, the UK housing market is still flat on its arse at 35,000 transaction per month despite having just has the peak of its year (Easter) and the "savage" public spending cuts and government job losses are increasingly just around the corner. So. The outlook for recruitment is still depressing. Ryanair is still the best deal out there to the general Wannabe. And that's for a job that you pay three times over the odds to get type rated for and which offers you NO guaranteed wage, base or continued position vs redundancy - you're a contract worker to be switched on, or off, as the accountants dictate.
Its a huge great big **** sandwich but the queue to take a bite extends down the street and past the chemists. Its quite amazing really.
Really. It is.
Sorry but the £2,000,000,000 Quantitative Easing money is spent, the Eurozone is about to enter a crisis big enough to cause its collapse, the UK housing market is still flat on its arse at 35,000 transaction per month despite having just has the peak of its year (Easter) and the "savage" public spending cuts and government job losses are increasingly just around the corner. So. The outlook for recruitment is still depressing. Ryanair is still the best deal out there to the general Wannabe. And that's for a job that you pay three times over the odds to get type rated for and which offers you NO guaranteed wage, base or continued position vs redundancy - you're a contract worker to be switched on, or off, as the accountants dictate.
Its a huge great big **** sandwich but the queue to take a bite extends down the street and past the chemists. Its quite amazing really.
Really. It is.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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''Has anyone heard of or dealt with Waterford pilot training college in Ireland? have been offered a place on their modular (zero to CPL and theory ATPL) course but price is huge 87,500 Euro. they have a link with Florida I.T which is where you do majority of hours.''
I did lad. I've done a lot of research on this place as its only across the road from me. All anyone is saying too me is stay away, the centre is nice, the promise is nice and the trainers are nice too but I have been told by people who went and trained in this too stay well clear
I did lad. I've done a lot of research on this place as its only across the road from me. All anyone is saying too me is stay away, the centre is nice, the promise is nice and the trainers are nice too but I have been told by people who went and trained in this too stay well clear
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Not only are there no jobs at the moment (apart from £30k pay to fly loco deals) there will be fewer jobs as the economy takes a downturn and more airlines go bust or contract.
Yet still the naive and optimistic keep coming: As my Father use to say "If you cant be clever then learn the hard way."
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Perhaps you should focus less on the UK and start looking abroad? The first thing we learn in Sweden is, if you want to be a pilot, then be prepared to move far, far away from home.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I would have to agree with you Fabbe92, however not all wannabees are as open minded a you would have hoped. See:
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...cruitment.html
However, I would also point out and perhaps reiterate WWW's post that the recession is a world recession and that, although, European economies are ahead of the UK in their economic cycle and have provided a little room for optimism the very recent events in Greece are likely to slow it all down rather dramatically....
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...cruitment.html
However, I would also point out and perhaps reiterate WWW's post that the recession is a world recession and that, although, European economies are ahead of the UK in their economic cycle and have provided a little room for optimism the very recent events in Greece are likely to slow it all down rather dramatically....
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Yes I know that it doesn´t look good anywhere at the moment, but if one tends to look at the UK or any other country specificly, the chances of getting a job are slim even during boom times.
And then I´m not talking about jet jobs. Any flying job in the world where you are safe and earn a decent living, is a good job.
And then I´m not talking about jet jobs. Any flying job in the world where you are safe and earn a decent living, is a good job.
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but if one tends to look at the UK or any other country specificly, the chances of getting a job are slim even during boom times.
Fabbe92 we're straying off the thread track here mate - perhaps check out the thread http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...cruitment.html ?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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''If everything is "nice", why are they telling you to stay clear? Did these people you've spoken to finish their training recently or over a year ago or more?''
It appears too be nice until you learn that all they want is your money. I have been told and have talked too ex students who finished both last year and 4 years ago. and both are the same. they are now in over 90k of debt and still have no job. now i cant fully comment as i dont have first hand experence with doing their course just going on these people. general rule is if you have that cash + another 30k for a tr ( ryanair ) then go ahead. Pilot Training Course Waterford PTC Ireland Diary of a PTC Student this fella seemed too enjoy it but he is as far as im aware not a pilot at the min
It appears too be nice until you learn that all they want is your money. I have been told and have talked too ex students who finished both last year and 4 years ago. and both are the same. they are now in over 90k of debt and still have no job. now i cant fully comment as i dont have first hand experence with doing their course just going on these people. general rule is if you have that cash + another 30k for a tr ( ryanair ) then go ahead. Pilot Training Course Waterford PTC Ireland Diary of a PTC Student this fella seemed too enjoy it but he is as far as im aware not a pilot at the min
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The integrated course is easier to pass through.
Modular is like learning to fly using a ski instructor.
It takes a lot of independent study and research...
Modular is like learning to fly using a ski instructor.
It takes a lot of independent study and research...
Methinks I smell a course recruiter.... 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I'm currently doing modular training and I can finance that through my job. It is all based on the thought that I can speed it up or slow it down whenever I want. At this point I'm still working on my PPL and I bought a share in a Diamond Katana, so hour building will be cheap for me.
A friend of mine is almost done with his integrated course and he is scared as hell. He has a dept of almost 140k (euro) and he is madly searching for possibility's to get a loan for another 30k for a TR. Its just insane.
When I am finished with my training in a year or 2-3 I will have no debt at all and it will cost me 1/3 of what my friend payed for his licence (exactly the same!!!!). I will be able to sleep at night and if there ever rises an opportunity to get a job I will have no problems at all to get a loan for an TR or if the market is still **** I can get a FI rating or just have fun flying the Katana around Europe and keep my current job.
Something about penny wise, pound...
ps: as you can see I am a long time reader, but this was my first post
A friend of mine is almost done with his integrated course and he is scared as hell. He has a dept of almost 140k (euro) and he is madly searching for possibility's to get a loan for another 30k for a TR. Its just insane.
When I am finished with my training in a year or 2-3 I will have no debt at all and it will cost me 1/3 of what my friend payed for his licence (exactly the same!!!!). I will be able to sleep at night and if there ever rises an opportunity to get a job I will have no problems at all to get a loan for an TR or if the market is still **** I can get a FI rating or just have fun flying the Katana around Europe and keep my current job.
Something about penny wise, pound...
ps: as you can see I am a long time reader, but this was my first post
Last edited by Immortal; 25th May 2010 at 08:55.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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plenty of job...
ratio 1/1000 (1 job/1000 pilots)
you don't believe? no problems, it s you money...I don't care if you don't belive me. I have no debts...
ratio 1/1000 (1 job/1000 pilots)
you don't believe? no problems, it s you money...I don't care if you don't belive me. I have no debts...
Join Date: Sep 2005
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bye bye buddy, you have been baned.
shame on us, everything you said is right.
tell him:if you can not take care of your money, how can you fly a jet??
shame on us, everything you said is right.
A friend of mine is almost done with his integrated course and he is scared as hell. He has a dept of almost 140k (euro) and he is madly searching for possibility's to get a loan for another 30k for a TR. Its just insane.
tell him:if you can not take care of your money, how can you fly a jet??
Join Date: May 1999
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The problem is that its all about timing, and a little about where you train. To deal with the last point first, any integrated FTO that has a real link to a recruiting airline is going to place you more quickly that if you work on your own, but that advantage does have to be tempered against the significant extra cost of integrated training and moderated with the knowledge that, in good times, that advantage is not great.
There are few real links between UK based FTOs and airlines, and many of them such as the flybe scheme only deal in small numbers. The only significant one that I know of is the link between CTC and Easyjet and, say what you like about contract terms, CTC have consistently placed large numbers of cadets with the airline throughout this recession.
We're at an interesting point now where recruiting is starting to take off, although it is not much mentioned on PPruNe. As an example, Emirates have stated they need 250 pilots this year and 500 next year. BA have also expressed a need for several hundred pilots. Easyjet are currently pretty short of crews because they have restricted recruiting in the recession, they are even planning to wet lease aircraft in this summer. Their HR dept has allegedly received 300 odd reference requests from Emirates in the last couple of months, mostly relating to applications from Easy senior FOs.
So what's going to happen here? Unless there's a double dip recession the Easy pilots that have been messed around by HR, including those on the poor contracts that aren't bonded, are going to leg it to the likes of Emirates and BA and therefore Easy are going to find themselves in a hole by the late summer. They will no longer be able to recruit on the current ridiculous contract terms and concepts like 'flexi-crew' are going to disappear very quickly. CTC are well placed as their 'preferred supplier' but may be unable to satisfy the demand and Easy will probably also take candidates from other FTOs, both integrated and modular.
So yes, I think that integrated with CTC may be a good choice right now, although I'd find it hard to justify an integrated course elsewhere. Clearly starting an integrated course two years ago was a bad decision and yes, the posters on PPRuNe did say so at the time. The big advantage of modular training, apart from the overall cost, is that you can stay working while you train. The cash disappears very quickly when you give up work.
As a side-note, I met an Easyjet captain last week that was one of the first JAR candidates at Cabair. He walked straight into a job with Go, then of course Go was taken over by Easy, and he made command in four years.
Timing.
I will now stand back and wait for WWW's opinion!
There are few real links between UK based FTOs and airlines, and many of them such as the flybe scheme only deal in small numbers. The only significant one that I know of is the link between CTC and Easyjet and, say what you like about contract terms, CTC have consistently placed large numbers of cadets with the airline throughout this recession.
We're at an interesting point now where recruiting is starting to take off, although it is not much mentioned on PPruNe. As an example, Emirates have stated they need 250 pilots this year and 500 next year. BA have also expressed a need for several hundred pilots. Easyjet are currently pretty short of crews because they have restricted recruiting in the recession, they are even planning to wet lease aircraft in this summer. Their HR dept has allegedly received 300 odd reference requests from Emirates in the last couple of months, mostly relating to applications from Easy senior FOs.
So what's going to happen here? Unless there's a double dip recession the Easy pilots that have been messed around by HR, including those on the poor contracts that aren't bonded, are going to leg it to the likes of Emirates and BA and therefore Easy are going to find themselves in a hole by the late summer. They will no longer be able to recruit on the current ridiculous contract terms and concepts like 'flexi-crew' are going to disappear very quickly. CTC are well placed as their 'preferred supplier' but may be unable to satisfy the demand and Easy will probably also take candidates from other FTOs, both integrated and modular.
So yes, I think that integrated with CTC may be a good choice right now, although I'd find it hard to justify an integrated course elsewhere. Clearly starting an integrated course two years ago was a bad decision and yes, the posters on PPRuNe did say so at the time. The big advantage of modular training, apart from the overall cost, is that you can stay working while you train. The cash disappears very quickly when you give up work.
As a side-note, I met an Easyjet captain last week that was one of the first JAR candidates at Cabair. He walked straight into a job with Go, then of course Go was taken over by Easy, and he made command in four years.
Timing.
I will now stand back and wait for WWW's opinion!
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As an example, Emirates have stated they need 250 pilots this year and 500 next year. BA have also expressed a need for several hundred pilots.
The UK/European economy is far from out of the woods and the financial pundits have already got their money on a double dip recession. Sorry if it sounds glass half full but that is likely to be the reality. I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong but I have that nagging feeling...
Your arguement is well formulated Alex but lets keep it simple: Undertaking an Integrated course during a recession is very risky. Doing a modular course during a recession is a better managed risk but still a risk.
The third option? Wait 8 - 12 months to see how the industry has progressed and then make a decision.
Join Date: May 1999
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Hi PP, all good points. Recruiting announcements are always slightly speculative and much of my post is based on rumour. The emirates announcement was in Flight International, the Easyjet info was from airline jungle drums.
We?
We?
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The third option? Wait 8 - 12 months to see how the industry has progressed and then make a decision
this is what I say to all my friends who went for the P2F.
Just look for the trend, better or worse in 6 months.
if Alex is right, in 6- 12 months, airlines will start to offer type ratings with "bonding contract", and it 's going to be the end of these P2F SCAMS and **** CTC flexy screw programs ...
so guys, wait and see!