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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Old 19th Nov 2022, 09:20
  #1021 (permalink)  
 
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rudestuff is right, why giving so much money if you can do it for less... or you can use it for Type Rating ... Once you have license ,always you have option to do many things( if you don't like) , transferring the license , convert the license etc...
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Old 19th Nov 2022, 20:12
  #1022 (permalink)  
 
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I've got a PPL so if I were to fund further training, I'd go down the modular route.

Overall, the point I was trying to make is that if interest routes rise, will airlines be have a wide enough selection of cadets to pick from for the self-funded tagged integrated programmes to properly function.

There's quite a few countries where airlines fund training simply because the cost of it is so high relative to the average wage. Perhaps that will happen here?
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Old 29th Nov 2022, 03:00
  #1023 (permalink)  
 
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I was planning to go to an integrated program in Poland but their next intake is autumn 2023 and have reconsidered to go the modular route after some reading here. The more I read into it, the more it makes sense and saves money. Not sure how much truth there is that airlines prefer grads from integrated programs but I think it could be marketing bs?
I'm also closer to 40 than 30 and was told (by another school in Spain) that airlines only want to hire under 35s these days... anyone have recent insight into this? I've also read the perpetual "Am I too old" thread, so it won't discourage me.

Anyway, I was going to start with ATPL theory (distance learning from Bristol ground school) and knock out the exams but apparently there's this:
Before you start your ATPL theory course, you must have a PPL(A) issued to International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards. This is a mandatory requirement, and you will be asked for your licence number when you register.

So I was thinking, isn't FAA PPL still ICAO standards? I hold US citizenship but I have a permanent residence card in an EU country due to family ties, with the unrestricted right to work in EU

I was thinking: PPL and IR in the States then returning back to Europe to do ATPL theory distance learning, then sitting the exams. Do I need to convert the PPL and IR ratings from FAA to EASA?

Next, CPL, ME, UPRT (at BartoliniAir, Poland) followed by Ryanair
mentored APS MCC at AFA Dublin.

Can I have your opinion on this plan?

How many hours should I have with PPL and IR in the States before returning back to Europe?
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Old 29th Nov 2022, 08:54
  #1024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lalli
I hold US citizenship

How many hours should I have with PPL and IR in the States before returning back to Europe?
That US passport is your golden ticket. You are guaranteed a job in the US. You'd be insane not to at least start your career on the US. Think of it this way: Pilot is a global profession. You don't get to choose where you live. Especially for your first job. Wherever you live in Europe now, you WILL have to move so don't artificially limit your opportunities even further.

With a US passport and a dream you are already closer to an airline job than most people with an EASA fATPL.

In your position this is what i would do:

You should plan to start your training in the US, getting an FAA IR and enough PIC IFR hours (50) to qualify for a 'no training required' EASA IR and enough total PIC hours (100) to qualify for the CPL

Pass your ATPL exams.

Come (go?) back to Europe with 180 hours and get an SEIR and SECPL.

Now your exams are safe for 7 years. You have breathing space to assess the job climate because you're only 6 weeks away from being employable in the EU (MEIR and MCC). If the EU market still looks **** you can continue with this plan:

Go (come?) back to the US. Go to a school that specialises in CFI training and spend on 50 hours of cheap hour building and RHS training for your CFI and CFII. Once you reach 250 hours, take your CPL check ride (but unusually in the RHS) followed Immediately by your CFI check ride (normally RHS). You might have to wait until the next day to take your CFII, I think there's a rule about how many check rides you can fly in a day. The 'normal' route is to get a CPL then start training for thy CFI/CFII, but there's nothing stopping you doing that training before your CPL as it's training as required.

Anyway, you now have an EASA CPL/IR with theory credit good to go for at least 7 years, and an FAA CPL/IR with CFI/CFII good to immediately. That's your ticket to the airlines in the US (once you've got 1500 hours as an instructor) - and the Multi Pilot time you get in a US airline is your ticket to an EASA ATPL with type rating should you be daft enough to return.

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Old 29th Nov 2022, 14:52
  #1025 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rudestuff
Pilot is a global profession. You don't get to choose where you live. Especially for your first job. Wherever you live in Europe now, you WILL have to move so don't artificially limit your opportunities even further.
Very true, however I was hoping to at least be on the same continent. How feasible is it to work in the States and commute back home to Europe? My understanding is, if you're lucky, you'll be on a 4 on 3 off schedule? Perhaps even worse since you're at the bottom of seniority. Hardly enough time for a trans Atlantic commute, less so if the airline I work for is based in the West.

Originally Posted by rudestuff
With a US passport and a dream you are already closer to an airline job than most people with an EASA fATPL.
I've read that the States are(were?) hiring like crazy. I hear that the FO hiring has slowed down and most airlines are desperate for qualified direct entry Captains. A few regionals are offering 100k to 150k sign bonus for early 2023 class dates.
To be honest, I don't have much of a clue how bad hiring is in Europe at the moment. I was under the impression that, albeit slower than the States, we are recovering back to pre Covid levels of flying?

Originally Posted by rudestuff
In your position this is what i would do:

You should plan to start your training in the US, getting an FAA IR and enough PIC IFR hours (50) to qualify for a 'no training required' EASA IR and enough total PIC hours (100) to qualify for the CPL

Pass your ATPL exams.

Come (go?) back to Europe with 180 hours and get an SEIR and SECPL.

Now your exams are safe for 7 years. You have breathing space to assess the job climate because you're only 6 weeks away from being employable in the EU (MEIR and MCC). If the EU market still looks **** you can continue with this plan:

Go (come?) back to the US. Go to a school that specialises in CFI training and spend on 50 hours of cheap hour building and RHS training for your CFI and CFII. Once you reach 250 hours, take your CPL check ride (but unusually in the RHS) followed Immediately by your CFI check ride (normally RHS). You might have to wait until the next day to take your CFII, I think there's a rule about how many check rides you can fly in a day. The 'normal' route is to get a CPL then start training for thy CFI/CFII, but there's nothing stopping you doing that training before your CPL as it's training as required.

Anyway, you now have an EASA CPL/IR with theory credit good to go for at least 7 years, and an FAA CPL/IR with CFI/CFII good to immediately. That's your ticket to the airlines in the US (once you've got 1500 hours as an instructor) - and the Multi Pilot time you get in a US airline is your ticket to an EASA ATPL with type rating should you be daft enough to return.
I think I will take this advice. Thank you so much, you've helped a lot. I hope to gain good experience in the States and hopefully can get hired and be back with my family in Europe one day. Ultimately, I'll get a citizenship in my current country of residence (hopefully within the next year), and hold 2 passports and make the best of both worlds.
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Old 21st Dec 2022, 07:41
  #1026 (permalink)  
 
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Where to start?!

Hi guys,
Long time listener, first time caller.

Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find.

Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams?

Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? I'm aware of the EU position on the British, not working I'm Europe, and from what I gather, that has only bottled necked the UK market - too many pilots, not enough jobs. Doesn't anyone know of other regions willingness to take on low hour cadets? Wouldn't be bothered where the first job would be located, but at an age of mid-thirty, iv not exactly got "time" to play with.

Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take.

Im a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers
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Old 21st Dec 2022, 20:11
  #1027 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ElCapitan45
Hi guys,
Long time listener, first time caller.

Just after a tiny bit of advice which, as present, seems to be very hard to find.

Keeping it short and sweet - UK Citizen, UK passport, about to embark on the dreaded ATPL chapter, BIG question, UK or EASA exams?

Main aim is to move outside of the UK, but are there any jobs for people in my position? I'm aware of the EU position on the British, not working I'm Europe, and from what I gather, that has only bottled necked the UK market - too many pilots, not enough jobs. Doesn't anyone know of other regions willingness to take on low hour cadets? Wouldn't be bothered where the first job would be located, but at an age of mid-thirty, iv not exactly got "time" to play with.

Ryanair offer some type of hope for me, but with the whole EU baloney, just leaves simpletons like me, very confused on which path to take.

Im a couple months off the ATPL Mod1. Any advice would be well received.... apart from the "do both Easa and UK exams". Cheers
I vote for EASA exams straight , and check this option : ATPL Theory 100% online ... https://www.easy-pilot.com/atpl-theory
If we talk for Ryan , don't be surprised if they ask you for type rating (ticket for job) about 45.000Eur . Some of them are little cheaper 30-35 . We should get paid to fly airplane , not we to pay the company for flying . Europe need pilots either you are low hour cadet or no ,if you search you will find, in meantime why not to do and instructor course ? One + opportunity for you getting a job. Not bad idea, think about that.
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Old 21st Dec 2022, 20:30
  #1028 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lalli
I was planning to go to an integrated program in Poland but their next intake is autumn 2023 and have reconsidered to go the modular route after some reading here. The more I read into it, the more it makes sense and saves money. Not sure how much truth there is that airlines prefer grads from integrated programs but I think it could be marketing bs?
I'm also closer to 40 than 30 and was told (by another school in Spain) that airlines only want to hire under 35s these days... anyone have recent insight into this? I've also read the perpetual "Am I too old" thread, so it won't discourage me.

Anyway, I was going to start with ATPL theory (distance learning from Bristol ground school) and knock out the exams but apparently there's this:
Before you start your ATPL theory course, you must have a PPL(A) issued to International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards. This is a mandatory requirement, and you will be asked for your licence number when you register.

So I was thinking, isn't FAA PPL still ICAO standards? I hold US citizenship but I have a permanent residence card in an EU country due to family ties, with the unrestricted right to work in EU

I was thinking: PPL and IR in the States then returning back to Europe to do ATPL theory distance learning, then sitting the exams. Do I need to convert the PPL and IR ratings from FAA to EASA?

Next, CPL, ME, UPRT (at BartoliniAir, Poland) followed by Ryanair
mentored APS MCC at AFA Dublin.

Can I have your opinion on this plan?

How many hours should I have with PPL and IR in the States before returning back to Europe?
You must convert your license and do the check (skill test) For distance learning you don't have to be here in Europe ,do it 100% online ,see the link down... As you mentioned EASA theory you will do in Europe this is good cause it will be much easy for you for further stage. I have left one link above answering to "ElCaptain45" but i will give you here again : www.easy-pilot.com . Ask these guys-see the webpage, they will help you 100% ,you will thank me after PPL conversion is very easy ( HPL & Air Law) for conversion + skill test. Rest of the flying why don't you done in Hungary? This is the best option for Europe -no vat % for education. Flying is cheaper than in rest of Europe and all this is EASA. If you need info what i know from friend , pm . No pressure ,just want to help as many others might have benefit ...

Last edited by Hawkers; 21st Dec 2022 at 20:56.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 22:00
  #1029 (permalink)  
 
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Smile Advice on the modular route 2023

Hello, a short background on me:

Up until school/6th form I had my eyes set on being a pilot and was targeting the CTC (L3) integrated routes/sponsored cadet schemes. Made it through the assessment centre at CTC for the fully self-funded integrated ATPL, pending the re-sit of one joystick aptitude test, but ultimately decided to go university on the advice that it would be good to have a backup.

In this instance, hindsight is an amazing thing as I would've graduated flight school 6 months prior to COVID and probably would have been sacked and possibly lost everything, so I don't regret this choice, nor having to re-mortgage my parent's house to fund it.

I've since completed a 5 year masters in Aerospace Engineering and during this time, I've seen the industry get hit from COVID and 'thought' that engineering would be better for me. However, I am now employed on a 2-year graduate program with a well-known aerospace company in the UK, and I am incredibly thankful for my job, but I can't help shake the feeling that deep down I still want to be a pilot.

Prior to reading through this thread, I believed that the modular route was inferior to the modular route and I would be second best in job applications (possibly this could be from my experience applying through CTC). I've started to consider how I might go about becoming a pilot again, now that the industry is starting to open up. I've been applying to the sponsored cadet schemes, but I am also considering the modular route, as I like my current job and I think I would be happy to take 3/4/5 years to study/fly part-time, funded by my job.
  • I was hoping to get people's thoughts on this, and the expected costs for the modular route to a CPL and beyond. I know that this has been covered before, but with the recent hikes in fuel/inflation etc I was hoping for some more accurate numbers
  • I have previously carried out 10 hours of PPL flying, but this was nearly 6 years ago. Would these hours be valid in any way towards a PPL?
  • My take-home pay is ~£1800/month, bills and rent come to £800/month, so I have £1000/month spare cash. What sort of timeframe would this allow me to complete my modular route in? (aware this depends on my lifestyle choices). This take-home pay will increase to £2300 in 18 months time.
  • Is it feasible to study for the ATPL exams in the evenings/weekends after work? The thought of having to do more exams after 4/5 years of uni is a sad one but part-time it may not be so bad, especially if it is broken up with some hour building.
I appreciate any thoughts you may have, and I'm also aware that I could be asking how long is a piece of string, but I'm not really sure where to start having been out of the aviation loop for so long. Feel free to bash any of my comments/questions.
Thanks!
Ryan
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Old 3rd Jan 2023, 21:08
  #1030 (permalink)  
 
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Hi ryanw1516 ! Welcome aboard I can say that you have good opportunities because of your current job because airlines would rather accept someone who is in the field of aviation than someone who did something completely different than aviation. Please don't get me wrong, but they would rather hire a pilot with a CPL license who previously had a job refuelling school planes than a pilot with a CPL license who previously cleaned swimming pools. (every decent job is a job with respect) . The fact that you said that you have experience from 10 hours of flying on PPL training means nothing to you. You have to go to an integrated or modular course, but in this case you go to the modular one because of the flexibility. If you are going to do a course in the UK, then you need to find out which ATO is near you (because you don't want to spend money on travel/fuel/accommodation) but also that the ATO has good qualities. Before you go, you need at least Class 2 for PPL, while for CPL you need Class 1. You will listen to the theory and take 9 exams at the CAA, after which you will have a skill test to obtain a PPL license (which is also one of the conditions for a CPL). You can finish flying training in a short time, but again it depends on your ability, how much you progress and of course on the weather conditions/payment. I can't say for the UK how much schooling is for PPL, but I know for sure that in EU countries it ranges from 8 to 15,000 Euros.
The training is at least 45 hours + skill test, so you will leave the school with about 50 hours of training. I would advise you that if you go flying, do it as often as possible, because 1 hour of training a month means nothing to you - you will forget everything the next time. When you do that, you have a time building of 100 hours, which must be registered as PIC (Pilot In Command). When you've done all that, the NVFR (5h) follows. All of this is a prerequisite for you to start training for CPL, and of course you start listening to ATPL Theory,(for example here you have Theory 100% Online- https://www.easy-pilot.com/atpl-theory ,and its very good price! ) where you then have 13 exams. How much time you need for those 13 exams again depends on you, but if you constantly study for 6 hours a day, you will need a good 10-12 months to pass them all (don't forget that you have a time limit of 18 months to pass all 13 from the day of the first sitting ). In the meantime, you will do IR-SEP and IR-ME, CPL skill test. For this "party" in the EU you need from about 35K to 80K - depending on the ATO. When you finish all that, MCC is waiting for you (about 3.5k Euro) and so on... I would rather say to find a job and let the company pay for Type Rating but your salary to be reduced ( Type rating cost a lot of money it depends on type of aircraft, but its tricky if you pay alone from your pocket type rating for A320 30K and you don't find a job within a year -your 30K is gone forever. Some companies do the type rating and this is like "ticket" for entering the job position- strange but true. If you make good organization, it will save your time, money and everything. I hope this does not discourage you from moving on to be pilot There is a lot of more to talk about but even this is too long ,but i wrote as short as possible
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 07:48
  #1031 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanw1516 - go and get a Class one medical. Even the healthiest looking people can fail them so that should always be the first thing you do. Then go and get a cheapish PPL. Then come back here and ask for further advice.

This is a great time get into flying - we're on the cusp of massive recruitment. The Yanks are giving pilot visas for the first time ever because they are so short of people. The middle east are expanding again. RIA - the biggest airline you've never heard of is starting in Saudi this year with $30Bn funding - it's going to create a massive vacuum which will leave RYR etc desperate.
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 11:44
  #1032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rudestuff
Ryanw1516 - go and get a Class one medical. Even the healthiest looking people can fail them so that should always be the first thing you do. Then go and get a cheapish PPL. Then come back here and ask for further advice.

This is a great time get into flying - we're on the cusp of massive recruitment. The Yanks are giving pilot visas for the first time ever because they are so short of people. The middle east are expanding again. RIA - the biggest airline you've never heard of is starting in Saudi this year with $30Bn funding - it's going to create a massive vacuum which will leave RYR etc desperate.
Let’s hope and pray for that! If only TR will again be paid by carriers, starting TCs are not abusive anymore and mid-late 30 yo like me are not rejected in some carriers I will be more than happy… maybe this is too much to ask
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Old 5th May 2023, 16:14
  #1033 (permalink)  
 
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Smile Best Route: Integrated vs Modular

Greetings everyone, just quickly, if you have not had a chance to read my first post, I would kindly urge you to do so. It would provide you with a better understanding of my background, objectives, and the questions I am seeking assistance with. I would like to express my gratitude for the immense assistance received on my initial post. While some members suggested that I may be averse to putting in the necessary effort and waiting for opportunities to materialize, I recognize that my lack of knowledge in comparison to the esteemed community members here has compelled me to seek guidance for commencing my journey and identifying the initial steps. While I understand that sponsorship opportunities are scarce, I have concluded, after careful consideration of all the posts, that the modular approach may be optimal for me given my absence of flight experience, barring occasional passenger travel in my father's plane which he no longer possesses, unfortunately. In my earlier post, I had mentioned my inability to finance flight school, but after conversing with my parents, it appears that funding may not be an insurmountable obstacle, and hence, that avenue remains open for exploration if necessary. I would be grateful for any insights into the feasibility of this option or other potential pathways that might be more advantageous.

I was also curious about the time and cost involved in achieving an ATPL via the modular route (though I acknowledge the answer to this may not be straightforward), as I've heard that this is the objective I should be targeting. Furthermore, I had heard about the existing dearth of pilots in North America, and I was pondering whether pursuing an integrated approach and acquiring a pilot's license in North America could be a viable alternative for me, if I were to obtain a green card.

I apologize for being unable to respond to comments on my previous post due to technical constraints, but I wish to extend my heartfelt appreciation for the invaluable insights and experiences shared by everyone. Your assistance has been of tremendous help, and I remain grateful for your continued support.
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Old 5th May 2023, 20:39
  #1034 (permalink)  
 
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You mention three well-trodden routes:
Modular, Integrated and USA.
Integrated is the most expensive by far. Modular in the UK can be done for £45-£50k and gives exactly the same licence. Then there's the US route, which is by far the cheapest - if you know what you are doing. The US route makes the most sense of you commit to it - meaning get FAA certificates and work as a flight instructor to 1500 hours. The advantage of the FAA system is that you only need 100 hours in powered aircraft, which opens the door to a lot of cross crediting and some very very cheap flying.
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Old 11th May 2023, 20:37
  #1035 (permalink)  
 
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What does modular training consist of?

I understand that first you need to attain your PPL, then you must hour build in order to attain your CPL. There are so many websites that say the order of your modules but they all say different things.

So my question is, what is the order of and what are the modules called that are NECESSARY to become a commercial airline pilot [for BA or easyJet etc].

​​​​​​Thank you
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Old 12th May 2023, 11:36
  #1036 (permalink)  
 
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I've been trying to calculate a more recent/relevant cost for going the modular route and I'm finding it will be a lot more expensive than the £50k to £60k that is usually estimated. My training for the PPL and most of the subsequent hour building would be based around London, which I appreciate is not the cheapest place to fly and perhaps I will look to get it done cheaper elsewhere, but is there anything in there that looks wildly wrong?

Training
PPL (45 hours) 12,000
Night Rating (5 hours) 1,300
Hour building (25 hours) 5,000
IRR/IMC (15 hours) 3,750
Hours (35 hours) 7,000
CBIR (15 hours) 8,000
MEP (6 hours) 4,000
MEIR (5 hours) 18,000
Hours (22 hours) 4,400
CPL (SEP) ( 15 hours) 6,000
MCC APS 5,000
JOC 1,000
TOTAL 75,450

Examinations and Tests
PPL Test 200
PPL Exams 450
ATPL Exams 1,000
Austro Exams 1,300 (probably won't go for EASA anyway)
IR Skills 850
ME Skills 150
ME Paper 35
ATPL Theory Course 2,500

CAA License Fees
PPL 202
RT License 79
ME Class Rating 131
IR Rating 131
CPL 263

Misc
Headset 200
Memberships 400
Medical+renewals 1,000
ATPL books 600
PPL Books/Equipment 250

GRAND TOTAL 85,191

So that's looking like it'll be around £85k when all is said and done. It does not include accomodation/travel for exams, longer to get PPL etc either. I can certainly see why some might choose Integrated in this position. Having said that, the ability to work full time alongside still makes modular far more compelling for me.
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Old 12th May 2023, 17:34
  #1037 (permalink)  
 
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If you're paying £3,600 per hour for MEIR training you might want to consider something smaller!
Also, you're paying £200 per hour for hour building when you could get it for half that.
And for some reason you want to pay £500 per hour for SEIR training. You're getting screwed and you're pushing back. I can see £25,000 of savings straight away...
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Old 13th May 2023, 09:38
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Originally Posted by rudestuff
If you're paying £3,600 per hour for MEIR training you might want to consider something smaller!
Also, you're paying £200 per hour for hour building when you could get it for half that.
And for some reason you want to pay £500 per hour for SEIR training. You're getting screwed and you're pushing back. I can see £25,000 of savings straight away...
Thanks. Well that's encouraging to hear that I probably have some of those costs wrong then. I was taking quotes that I'd seen for those respective packages but hadn't figured that a per-hour rate would probably be better. For the hour-building, I can't find anything that much cheaper in my area though, but I'll hopefully be able to take a chunk off in a package somewhere sunnier.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 13:13
  #1039 (permalink)  
 
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Hi - please may someone lay out why doing the CBIR is better .e.g. getting your PPL and doing a IMC (IR)?
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 13:21
  #1040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rleungz
Hi - please may someone lay out why doing the CBIR is better .e.g. getting your PPL and doing a IMC (IR)?
Look up what you need for an IR course, then look up what you need doing it via CBIR. You'll have your answer.
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