Oxford Aviation Employment Statistics
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Oxford
You invest heavily in sales and marketing and it pays dividends.
You cleverly manipulate statistics and it pays dividends.
You expand into the TRTO market and it pays dividends.
You advertise 'airline partnerships' and it pays dividends.
You promote yourself as a global player and...yep, you guessed it.
The average age of an Oxford cadet is what? 20, 21, 22?
Naivety is still ripe. Oxford thrive upon it and it will continue. They are a business after all and there are still plenty who will throw 70K+ at an ATPL.
Even if you stood up in the middle of one of their open days and managed to successfully contradict many of their statements, those around you would only ignore your rants. These guys are already 'sold' and you will merely be the annoying chap who spouted a load of guff at their seminar.
Fair play to Oxford, they have made a nice little bed for themselves. They are more than aware that many potential suitors will see through their 'sh1te'
however the number that refuse to see beyond their 'razzmatazz' far outstrips those who won't.
You cleverly manipulate statistics and it pays dividends.
You expand into the TRTO market and it pays dividends.
You advertise 'airline partnerships' and it pays dividends.
You promote yourself as a global player and...yep, you guessed it.
The average age of an Oxford cadet is what? 20, 21, 22?
Naivety is still ripe. Oxford thrive upon it and it will continue. They are a business after all and there are still plenty who will throw 70K+ at an ATPL.
Even if you stood up in the middle of one of their open days and managed to successfully contradict many of their statements, those around you would only ignore your rants. These guys are already 'sold' and you will merely be the annoying chap who spouted a load of guff at their seminar.
Fair play to Oxford, they have made a nice little bed for themselves. They are more than aware that many potential suitors will see through their 'sh1te'
however the number that refuse to see beyond their 'razzmatazz' far outstrips those who won't.
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Alitalia Flight School did the same to its cadets 8 years ago. Of 450 pilots out of the course, 150 didnt get in Alitalia due to bad timing (post 9/11) and of those 150, 60 are still not pilots, of the 90 left, 50 paid a TR to some other company with the money they earned in the 4 years being not flying or from bank.
Of those 50, not all are happy in a big company and a few didnt finish paying off the 100k that all this was worth....
italian newspapers, parlament and judges have been informed of all this and they said "tought luck boys"
End of story
D
PS forgot to mention that of those 300 that actually DID get into Alitalia, 150 of them are now on the streets after Alitalia reorganization...
D
Of those 50, not all are happy in a big company and a few didnt finish paying off the 100k that all this was worth....
italian newspapers, parlament and judges have been informed of all this and they said "tought luck boys"
End of story
D
PS forgot to mention that of those 300 that actually DID get into Alitalia, 150 of them are now on the streets after Alitalia reorganization...
D
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1. Did somebody say 'global' crisis?
2. Is this the new EASA / FAA combined course where you buy one licence
& get one free?
3. New regulations in FAA-land requiring minimum 1500 hours from airline co-pilots?
2. Is this the new EASA / FAA combined course where you buy one licence
& get one free?
3. New regulations in FAA-land requiring minimum 1500 hours from airline co-pilots?
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(which makes me a CARICOM national so could potentially be hired by airlines based on ay of the other CARICOM airlines).
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Higher higher - good one you for looking in and doing some home work. I am afraid however your dual nationality won't really help. OAa will give you a jaa cpl, to work in the countries you mention means you will need more money to convert to FAA and then have to get 1500 hrs min which is the norm in the states I believe but as always stand to be corrected. Your only 19, save up get a back up job, go modular and part time and you will have saved enoughed dosh to get the FAA ticket as well. And that I bet will cost you the same as full time at the oaa sharks. Think of it as a buy one get one free
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Guys and Gals,
Firstly can all the people putting Ryanair in with Easyjet please get your facts right. Ryanair do not have a pay for line training scheme like Easyjet so please stop telling others they do!! Ryanair make your pay for your type rating just like a lot of the so called "proper" airlines do.
Example, a friend of mine completed his ATR type rating to fly with a well know Irish regional airline last year. It cost him almost 30,000Euro. After 6 months he was made unemployed with around 500 hours on type. Sound familiar??? Now I know he lost his job due to the economic climate however had he joined Ryanair he would have done 900 hours that year, this year, next year etc and his type rating would have cost him the same.
Secondly, I finished training last June and have sent out liturally hundreds of CV's since then. Out of all the companies I applied too including airlines, cargo, private jets, servey companies etc, only ONE company showed any interest in me. The rest all told me I didnt have enough hours, I didnt have multi crew hours, I didnt have enough twin hours etc etc. So I think all this is being blown slightly out of proportion. Dont get me wrong I do not agree with paying for line training and i think what EASYJET are doing is terrible but Im just giving this all some perspective.
Firstly can all the people putting Ryanair in with Easyjet please get your facts right. Ryanair do not have a pay for line training scheme like Easyjet so please stop telling others they do!! Ryanair make your pay for your type rating just like a lot of the so called "proper" airlines do.
Example, a friend of mine completed his ATR type rating to fly with a well know Irish regional airline last year. It cost him almost 30,000Euro. After 6 months he was made unemployed with around 500 hours on type. Sound familiar??? Now I know he lost his job due to the economic climate however had he joined Ryanair he would have done 900 hours that year, this year, next year etc and his type rating would have cost him the same.
Secondly, I finished training last June and have sent out liturally hundreds of CV's since then. Out of all the companies I applied too including airlines, cargo, private jets, servey companies etc, only ONE company showed any interest in me. The rest all told me I didnt have enough hours, I didnt have multi crew hours, I didnt have enough twin hours etc etc. So I think all this is being blown slightly out of proportion. Dont get me wrong I do not agree with paying for line training and i think what EASYJET are doing is terrible but Im just giving this all some perspective.
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MikeEcho.
YouTube - easyJet, CTC, Oxford PILOT ABUSE
The press and radio/tv would be very interested in this one.
The one thing Easy and co. don't like is bad publicity. In fact, it would make a good "Watchdog" type TV programme.
YouTube - easyJet, CTC, Oxford PILOT ABUSE
The press and radio/tv would be very interested in this one.
The one thing Easy and co. don't like is bad publicity. In fact, it would make a good "Watchdog" type TV programme.
Last edited by cambridge; 11th Jan 2010 at 12:19.
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Press wont care
I understand that what is happening with EasyJet is not doing the industry any favours.
However the press would not be interested in this film. So some guys are paying for their opportunity to be flying. They are qualified individuals and therefore safe pilots. What EasyJet are doing is not illegal, its just not helping the industry.
What does Joe Public care if the person on the flight deck has paid their money to be there (and is qualified), than EasyJet paying it for them...
I dont agree with what EasyJet are doing however it would make no difference to the public image, people will still fly with them as they are cheap.
However the press would not be interested in this film. So some guys are paying for their opportunity to be flying. They are qualified individuals and therefore safe pilots. What EasyJet are doing is not illegal, its just not helping the industry.
What does Joe Public care if the person on the flight deck has paid their money to be there (and is qualified), than EasyJet paying it for them...
I dont agree with what EasyJet are doing however it would make no difference to the public image, people will still fly with them as they are cheap.
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Letsflyaway is right, the press couldn't give a damn nor could the public.
Only ones who care a jot are the mass of unemployed pilots who object on moral grounds. As there are no morals anymore, its just a case of how deep are your pockets ?
Why would an airline object to a workforce paying to come to work ? No other company in any other industry would object to being treated like a charity.
It really is a sad joke now, none of my friends can believe me when they hear of pilots paying to go to work.
So very sad
MrM
Only ones who care a jot are the mass of unemployed pilots who object on moral grounds. As there are no morals anymore, its just a case of how deep are your pockets ?
Why would an airline object to a workforce paying to come to work ? No other company in any other industry would object to being treated like a charity.
It really is a sad joke now, none of my friends can believe me when they hear of pilots paying to go to work.
So very sad
MrM
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There are undoubtedly major 'structural' problems in this Industry (and fly by night cowboys) and yes, new entrants to this Industry are getting a very very raw deal.
But the problems are throughout the entire industry. The rest of the world has moved on and created flexible employment conditions. But we hang onto archaic practises that allow employers and a few at the top of the scale to enjoy significant advantage.
Yet those people who we pay to represent us every month through our pay packets have no plans to change our world for the better. Trebles all round?
I often wonder what EZY/FR pax would do if they knew that their FO annd CC were actually subsidising the cost of their seats. Maybe they'd have a 'whip round' like people do for coach drivers!
But the problems are throughout the entire industry. The rest of the world has moved on and created flexible employment conditions. But we hang onto archaic practises that allow employers and a few at the top of the scale to enjoy significant advantage.
Yet those people who we pay to represent us every month through our pay packets have no plans to change our world for the better. Trebles all round?
I often wonder what EZY/FR pax would do if they knew that their FO annd CC were actually subsidising the cost of their seats. Maybe they'd have a 'whip round' like people do for coach drivers!
the press would not be interested in this film.
"Crippling debt and lack of job security leads to dangerous levels of stress on the flightdeck"
There's a headline they'll no doubt lap up.
Regards, jez
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jez_d im afraid i dont agree..... if anything i feel your comment would make the situation worse.
Lets not forget that this industry is an a deep depression just now.
If we go out to the press and explain that due to this programme, we have pilots who are stressed due to the amount of debt they have accumulated along with possibility of not being able to keep their job.
I think the only thing this will do will make the public lose faith in aviation as a safe mode of transport.
As far as im concerned the bottom line is that you cant try and explain this to the press. All that will happen is the industry will suffer more than it currently is.
Lets not forget that this industry is an a deep depression just now.
If we go out to the press and explain that due to this programme, we have pilots who are stressed due to the amount of debt they have accumulated along with possibility of not being able to keep their job.
I think the only thing this will do will make the public lose faith in aviation as a safe mode of transport.
As far as im concerned the bottom line is that you cant try and explain this to the press. All that will happen is the industry will suffer more than it currently is.
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Integrated v Modular
Years ago the integrated course (eg Hamble, Perth and Oxford years gone by) represented fly one day, ground-school the next. In this way students were able to apply the knowledge gained in ground-school almost immediately to real life flying. The system whereby a student will complete their ATPLs in six months and then and only then commence flying training is flawed. Speak to any Instructor who is faced with training students so trained and he/she will tell you generally how poor their average standard is. Moreover, if following a six month crash ground-school course the student is shipped out to receive sub-standard training abroad, the result is disaster. It was a sad day when our CAA succumbed to school and accountant pressure to change to the present system of what in effect is modular training under the expensive guise of an 'integrated' label. Do not be fooled that training under one large roof is any better or more integrated than a modular route at a high-standard school.
Hovering AND talking
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to change to the present system of what in effect is modular training
The present system as you describe is not like modular training; it's worse.
Cheers
Whirls
