Guys, Don't Do it.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Between the smalltime bashing and "I`m more a pilot than you" BS there is some good advice for the newbies.
1. Can`t pay off loans as a professional pilot. WTF!??! Yes, pilot education is now a high-cost one, and necessary to become... a pilot. There are several ways of doing so though. What other loans (luxuries) need to be paid off? A self-funded typerating on a medium jet perhaps? Nice car? High-end place to live? C`mon, you won`t be a senior Capt for awhile, and your paycheck reflects exactly that. My point being; yes you can live off a pilot paycheck, but pace yourself.
2. A lot of pilots who have been in the industry awhile start complaining about mundane things. Keep in mind they are complaining about details, as opposed to a more normal lifestyle where workers complain about the big picture.
3. Not what it appeared to be? Things never are. Some win, some lose. Some are fortunate and get a good flying job right away, some have to put in the hours to get somewhere, and some just call it a day early on. It takes all kinds.
4. Admitting mistakes is something a pilot doesn`t like to do, and tries not to do
. A bad career move etc takes a man to admit to. And should by no means be bashed by saying that this is not for him (though I sense that in this case it has to do mostly with money issues).
5. The grass will always appear to be greener elsewhere. Always. But it can only get green up to a certain point. This is not infinite. Windowshopping can be fun (meaning looking and comparing your job with others), but keep in mind what makes you happy.
6. Pilots will almost always say that they fly the best airplanes no matter what. It`s built in our nature to want to appear best. Better than you, better than anyone.
Catch my drift? People have different perceptions and expectations. My best career advice would be; whatever floats your boat. Apply to the companies who will give you a combination of the flying you like (be it instructing, bush, turbopros or jets) and ok terms and conditions. Good luck.
1. Can`t pay off loans as a professional pilot. WTF!??! Yes, pilot education is now a high-cost one, and necessary to become... a pilot. There are several ways of doing so though. What other loans (luxuries) need to be paid off? A self-funded typerating on a medium jet perhaps? Nice car? High-end place to live? C`mon, you won`t be a senior Capt for awhile, and your paycheck reflects exactly that. My point being; yes you can live off a pilot paycheck, but pace yourself.
2. A lot of pilots who have been in the industry awhile start complaining about mundane things. Keep in mind they are complaining about details, as opposed to a more normal lifestyle where workers complain about the big picture.
3. Not what it appeared to be? Things never are. Some win, some lose. Some are fortunate and get a good flying job right away, some have to put in the hours to get somewhere, and some just call it a day early on. It takes all kinds.
4. Admitting mistakes is something a pilot doesn`t like to do, and tries not to do
. A bad career move etc takes a man to admit to. And should by no means be bashed by saying that this is not for him (though I sense that in this case it has to do mostly with money issues). 5. The grass will always appear to be greener elsewhere. Always. But it can only get green up to a certain point. This is not infinite. Windowshopping can be fun (meaning looking and comparing your job with others), but keep in mind what makes you happy.
6. Pilots will almost always say that they fly the best airplanes no matter what. It`s built in our nature to want to appear best. Better than you, better than anyone.
Catch my drift? People have different perceptions and expectations. My best career advice would be; whatever floats your boat. Apply to the companies who will give you a combination of the flying you like (be it instructing, bush, turbopros or jets) and ok terms and conditions. Good luck.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I used to work as a senior manager(entertainment) getting paid €85k pa. Sounds great but when you break down the hours I had to put in its pretty ****. So I decided to use my savings to travel a bit and then do my CPL (boyhood dream). I should be finished by Christmas. I don't think things will improve in 2010 so my plan is to go back to work(all organised) and do my MECIR.. come 2011 I will have no debts( except for my mortgage 
) and my licences completed and hope to have my ATPL's then also
The way I see it, if it works out that I can get into the business at that point fantastic, if it doesn't work out I still have my current career which can be quiet enjoyable and I'm pretty good at & I gave my dream a go (realising it to some extent as I will be a certified commercial pilot ) and will keep flying as a hobby.
I realise that not all wannabes have this option and I guess my point is, if you do have the option then go for it, you don't want to be an old timer sitting at home wondering why you didn't try. Remember you'll be dead long enough
Safe flying
) and my licences completed and hope to have my ATPL's then alsoThe way I see it, if it works out that I can get into the business at that point fantastic, if it doesn't work out I still have my current career which can be quiet enjoyable and I'm pretty good at & I gave my dream a go (realising it to some extent as I will be a certified commercial pilot ) and will keep flying as a hobby.
I realise that not all wannabes have this option and I guess my point is, if you do have the option then go for it, you don't want to be an old timer sitting at home wondering why you didn't try. Remember you'll be dead long enough
Safe flying
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Guess what - working as a professional pilot is a job. And just like any other profession, there are some great jobs out there, and some that are not so great. Some companies pay well and offer excellent lifestyles and terms and conditions - others don't. It's not a profession that will suit everyone, and that doesn't make anyone 'less of a man'.
Much will depend on who you end up working for, and your perspective (i.e. previous life and work-experience). In my (limited) experience, the very few individuals who are unhappy and moan about their lot as a pilot are the ones who have never done anything else - they have nothing to compare the job to. I have worked in a steel mill, been stuck in a portacabin dealing with lorry drivers all day, and spent 10 years in boring office jobs in London. Flying beats them all hands down.
Not that my lifestyle is anything like JB007's (lucky man). Regional lo-co, short haul, intense multi-sector days where I struggle to find time to eat or even go to the loo. 5 days on, 2 off, finish on a late, start on an early. It's not well paid for the money I have spent, but I still love it and always look forward to going to work. And as for 'watching the autopilot all day' - yeah, right. If you like excitement, try flying a Q400 on the autopilot and taking your eyes off it for 10 seconds. It'll bite you quicker than you can say; "Goodness, this thing's a bit of a handful."
The question you as wannabes have to ask yourselves is - and be brutally honest; "Do I really love flying? Do I love it enough to put up with all the hurdles and grief on the way to getting the licence, and do I love it enough to endure the downsides of the job once I make it to the right hand seat?" If the answer is yes (and if you're like me, you'll actually miss the job when you go on holiday) then a great career is possible. If you fancy flying as a career because of the money, or the kudus, or to pull the hosties, - or anything other than a passionate love of flying - then you're deluding yourself and it's really not for you.
Much will depend on who you end up working for, and your perspective (i.e. previous life and work-experience). In my (limited) experience, the very few individuals who are unhappy and moan about their lot as a pilot are the ones who have never done anything else - they have nothing to compare the job to. I have worked in a steel mill, been stuck in a portacabin dealing with lorry drivers all day, and spent 10 years in boring office jobs in London. Flying beats them all hands down.
Not that my lifestyle is anything like JB007's (lucky man). Regional lo-co, short haul, intense multi-sector days where I struggle to find time to eat or even go to the loo. 5 days on, 2 off, finish on a late, start on an early. It's not well paid for the money I have spent, but I still love it and always look forward to going to work. And as for 'watching the autopilot all day' - yeah, right. If you like excitement, try flying a Q400 on the autopilot and taking your eyes off it for 10 seconds. It'll bite you quicker than you can say; "Goodness, this thing's a bit of a handful."
The question you as wannabes have to ask yourselves is - and be brutally honest; "Do I really love flying? Do I love it enough to put up with all the hurdles and grief on the way to getting the licence, and do I love it enough to endure the downsides of the job once I make it to the right hand seat?" If the answer is yes (and if you're like me, you'll actually miss the job when you go on holiday) then a great career is possible. If you fancy flying as a career because of the money, or the kudus, or to pull the hosties, - or anything other than a passionate love of flying - then you're deluding yourself and it's really not for you.
I cannot echo that enough.
The good days have well and truly gone people. There is zero glamour, no respect, few benefits and you're always only a medical or sim check away from disaster. You will have to go to bed at 8pm you will have to get out of it at 4am. You will be away and you will be bored and your wife will be narky at yet another social event your roster stops you attending or yet another Christmas Eve spent working instead of tucking the children up into bed.
There is no escape. The Charters, the Long Hauls the Execjets are all working harder and racing with the Lowcos in a race to the bottom. This summer sees FO's on Boeings and Airbus in the UK working for £1,000 a month pay on 6 months summer work experience with no prospect of a job at the end of it following paying for their type rating. There is probably lower still to go.
British Airways (BA FFSK!) pilots have already agreed a CUT in their wages and lifestyle.
Historically airlines go bust after the recession is over. As everyone in the world is telling you this is the worst recession since WW2 what do you think will happen in 2010 and 2011 when the recession is over? Worst airline collapses since WW2 would be a logical conclusion.
I love this job. I think the pay and lifestyle are marvelous. I wouldn't begrudge a single Wannabe the chance to achieve the same. I fear though that it just isn't doable at the moment and for every Wannabe that makes it there will be a half dozen that are just burning £20 notes as fast as they can strike the match.
Sorry,
WWW
The good days have well and truly gone people. There is zero glamour, no respect, few benefits and you're always only a medical or sim check away from disaster. You will have to go to bed at 8pm you will have to get out of it at 4am. You will be away and you will be bored and your wife will be narky at yet another social event your roster stops you attending or yet another Christmas Eve spent working instead of tucking the children up into bed.
There is no escape. The Charters, the Long Hauls the Execjets are all working harder and racing with the Lowcos in a race to the bottom. This summer sees FO's on Boeings and Airbus in the UK working for £1,000 a month pay on 6 months summer work experience with no prospect of a job at the end of it following paying for their type rating. There is probably lower still to go.
British Airways (BA FFSK!) pilots have already agreed a CUT in their wages and lifestyle.
Historically airlines go bust after the recession is over. As everyone in the world is telling you this is the worst recession since WW2 what do you think will happen in 2010 and 2011 when the recession is over? Worst airline collapses since WW2 would be a logical conclusion.
I love this job. I think the pay and lifestyle are marvelous. I wouldn't begrudge a single Wannabe the chance to achieve the same. I fear though that it just isn't doable at the moment and for every Wannabe that makes it there will be a half dozen that are just burning £20 notes as fast as they can strike the match.
Sorry,
WWW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Pah!....trying doing my old job - 12 years of Her Majestys Constabulary...that'll soon show you what roster's and disturbed family life is like. 17 hours shifts at times(longest - 26 hours. Beat that at your local chinese sweat shop!!), no weekends off for 2 months, no sleep for 2 weeks because you've just done 6 different starts(9am, 6am, 7am, 5pm, 10pm, 2pm,) in less than a fortnight. One xmas off in 8 years!!!, dont even think about getting New Year off! If your lucky(really lucky!) you might just get the same holidays as your wife. As for how management treat you....well I think you get the idea..!
And some of you guys moan because you have to work xmas eve or miss the odd family event...heaven forbid finishing on a late and starting on an early!
Sorry...couldnt resist...some of you have it real bad
!
And some of you guys moan because you have to work xmas eve or miss the odd family event...heaven forbid finishing on a late and starting on an early!
Sorry...couldnt resist...some of you have it real bad
!
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I think you have some wires crossed there?
The problem is we do love flying which is why we do it. Do we love the career though? Two entirely different questions!
I have worked for a loco working all the hours/days you could work and I have to say I began to hate aviation. It simply left me with no time to do anything else at all in life. Flying 4 or 5 sector days, everyday with 30 mins turnarounds, defective a/c, bad pay, no benefits, no pension, nothing but abuse from management. How many of us want a life like like?
I got out of that and into a more enjoyable lifestyle but still with many problems that are hard to deal with and still makes me question what I am doing.
I would give it all up tomorrow but for two things:
1) and this has to come first, I'm a realist. I need an income.
2) I still enjoy my flying.
In view of this I continue with a career that could be, should be, and was once fantastic. Sadly I cannot describe my career in those terms.
Two best days in commercial aviation??? Getting your licence and retirement day!
But where is the pension????
The problem is we do love flying which is why we do it. Do we love the career though? Two entirely different questions!
I have worked for a loco working all the hours/days you could work and I have to say I began to hate aviation. It simply left me with no time to do anything else at all in life. Flying 4 or 5 sector days, everyday with 30 mins turnarounds, defective a/c, bad pay, no benefits, no pension, nothing but abuse from management. How many of us want a life like like?
I got out of that and into a more enjoyable lifestyle but still with many problems that are hard to deal with and still makes me question what I am doing.
I would give it all up tomorrow but for two things:
1) and this has to come first, I'm a realist. I need an income.
2) I still enjoy my flying.
In view of this I continue with a career that could be, should be, and was once fantastic. Sadly I cannot describe my career in those terms.
Two best days in commercial aviation??? Getting your licence and retirement day!
But where is the pension????
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to all those people who seem to have a negative view of this career, and to those who say that there are many other careers to consider which are just as stimulating with similar benefits -
please enlighten me? I am interested to know your opinions.
please enlighten me? I am interested to know your opinions.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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WTF
HI,
Im 20 years old, have a ppl, and would kill to be in your shoes, im working my tits off to fund my ATPL. I cant afford to do it in one, i have to do my G/S come back and work for 6 months and save and go back, do CPL, and it goes on. You fancy swapping jobs? how do you fancy 55 hrs a week on a ****ty buliding site as an electrican? dont mean to be rude but get a grip!
Im 20 years old, have a ppl, and would kill to be in your shoes, im working my tits off to fund my ATPL. I cant afford to do it in one, i have to do my G/S come back and work for 6 months and save and go back, do CPL, and it goes on. You fancy swapping jobs? how do you fancy 55 hrs a week on a ****ty buliding site as an electrican? dont mean to be rude but get a grip!
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Well done Scott, you keep powering on buddy and things will all come true one day. It is sad that there are some people that dont enjoy their job however, in this industry as soon as you start not enjoying it and wishing you were somewhere else you become complacent and generally not very good. Unfortunalty this industry is full of people who enjoy moaning for a living and some enjoy it more than actually flying. I worked hard for a 7 years saving the spond and it all worked out so keep going and you will appreciate even more when you finally get there!!
I also totally agree with GSXTY's last para, WELL SAID!!!! You have got to LOVE the flying and those guys who moan and are in the job to wear the uniform, chat up the CCrew and wear sunnies all day long then can really jog on and let some serious guys such as Scott and some friends of mine take your position. Sorry for the rant but I am fed up with seeing guys moan when there are pleanty of other chaps out there who would dream of doing the job and I really reckon some of them would do it to a higher standard.
CABUS
I also totally agree with GSXTY's last para, WELL SAID!!!! You have got to LOVE the flying and those guys who moan and are in the job to wear the uniform, chat up the CCrew and wear sunnies all day long then can really jog on and let some serious guys such as Scott and some friends of mine take your position. Sorry for the rant but I am fed up with seeing guys moan when there are pleanty of other chaps out there who would dream of doing the job and I really reckon some of them would do it to a higher standard.
CABUS
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If the job is bad, i cant see it...
I do 3 to 4 flights a month, usually 3.
15 to 20 days per month.
Good pay( at least to my standards)
Comparing to my friends, some earn more than me, some have more challenging jobs....but none as my lifestyle(All the days offs, and enough money to enjoy them)
They always miss one thing: the money or the time.
For me being a pilot is the only job i found that allow me the lifestyle i have.
So my advice: maybe try and apply to another company, but dont leave this job.
15 to 20 days per month.
Good pay( at least to my standards)
Comparing to my friends, some earn more than me, some have more challenging jobs....but none as my lifestyle(All the days offs, and enough money to enjoy them)
They always miss one thing: the money or the time.
For me being a pilot is the only job i found that allow me the lifestyle i have.
So my advice: maybe try and apply to another company, but dont leave this job.
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People seem to forget that last quarter commercial pilots was one fastest-growing sectors for claims of jobseekers’ allowance... Second only to the to financial's, according to the UK Office for National Statistics.
National Statistics Online - Product - Labour Market Statistics
If people want to pay 70K plus to end up at the job centre by being deluded its their choice...
Suddenly, being an electrican or public sector worker doesn't seem as bad....?
National Statistics Online - Product - Labour Market Statistics
If people want to pay 70K plus to end up at the job centre by being deluded its their choice...
Suddenly, being an electrican or public sector worker doesn't seem as bad....?
Last edited by cjd_a320; 14th Jul 2009 at 22:46.
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G-SXTY, WWW & 007 are all spot on.
I mean what do some people expect? A million pounds pa working 2 on 8 off with a stop over in barbados?
So far I have spent over 70k lost out on over 40k in earnings just to end up swimming in a hold pool. Lucky me I have a decent job (20K) to keep me busy in the mean time. But I long to be going to work to do something that I actually enjoy and am passionate about.
Earning potential in this game is good, try earning over 40k or even 30k out in the real world........and try earning that without being bored for 40hrs per week.
Some people are just not cut out to be modern airline pilots.
Happy landings
I mean what do some people expect? A million pounds pa working 2 on 8 off with a stop over in barbados?
So far I have spent over 70k lost out on over 40k in earnings just to end up swimming in a hold pool. Lucky me I have a decent job (20K) to keep me busy in the mean time. But I long to be going to work to do something that I actually enjoy and am passionate about.
Earning potential in this game is good, try earning over 40k or even 30k out in the real world........and try earning that without being bored for 40hrs per week.
Some people are just not cut out to be modern airline pilots.
Happy landings
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Its really hard reading all this and working at the same time.....revising for hours and hours on end to try and succed in school as much as i can. I do exam paper after exam paper in maths, physics, chemistry and geography and then pop on here for a break and then read this.....it does put me off.....then i look at my wall and see the 777 flightdeck poster and then think where i could be in 10 years and my head is back in the books, thats what dreaming of a pilot does for me.
I'm fully aware of what the industry is like, i planned to go straight into flight training and now i've applied for uni and got a place for aeronautical engineering.....that enough to show my dedication to becoming a pilot?
Im always trying to push myself to tackle my weaknesses in questions for my subjects and try every type of exam question available to me and then i read some of the stuff on here are its really off putting.....making me think will i ever get into that right hand seat?
I have a weekend job and now week job (which really don't enjoy) trying to get as much hours as possble to save up towards my ATPL and i'm not going to be doing it for another 5/6 years.
I really hope i do make it one day and battle through these somewhat negitive times.
I'm fully aware of what the industry is like, i planned to go straight into flight training and now i've applied for uni and got a place for aeronautical engineering.....that enough to show my dedication to becoming a pilot?
Im always trying to push myself to tackle my weaknesses in questions for my subjects and try every type of exam question available to me and then i read some of the stuff on here are its really off putting.....making me think will i ever get into that right hand seat?
I have a weekend job and now week job (which really don't enjoy) trying to get as much hours as possble to save up towards my ATPL and i'm not going to be doing it for another 5/6 years.
I really hope i do make it one day and battle through these somewhat negitive times.
Every now and again I do this
It bloody well is worth it.
Sipping coffee as dawn breaks over the land below, bursting through the status, greasing it on a dark dirty night. All this is rewarding. Working with people who aren't ar5eholes - priceless.
WWW
It bloody well is worth it.
Sipping coffee as dawn breaks over the land below, bursting through the status, greasing it on a dark dirty night. All this is rewarding. Working with people who aren't ar5eholes - priceless.
WWW
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Sorry for the rant but I am fed up with seeing guys moan when there are pleanty of other chaps out there who would dream of doing the job and I really reckon some of them would do it to a higher standard.
. Did your FTO tell you this? We all know every airline is crying out for 200 hour pilots to replace their current gash crews with their high standards and £80 0000 loans?
Thanks for making me laugh
Last edited by mona lot; 14th Jul 2009 at 23:52.
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I really hope i do make it one day and battle through these somewhat negitive times
So at your age scot you can take 10 years out, save your assets, but enjoy life and reassess things then.
You'll be in a far strong position than the rest of the crowd going forward...