Current Training Situation!
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Current Training Situation!
This is my first post on this forum, so please be nice!
I’ve been scouring these forums for a while now, but I feel like I need to have a bit of a rant about the current situation.
It seems to be apparent that to become an airline pilot you either need to be very rich or get yourself into unmanageable amounts of debt, without any guarantee of a job (unless you bag yourself a place on one of the rare mentored schemes).
I’m currently a student studying an aviation related degree and we have had representatives from some of the major integrated flight schools in the industry which boast that they are bringing “affordable flight training” to the masses. They talk about funding and getting out loans for £80,000 plus! I knew flight training was and is expensive but is it really worth getting out a loan of that amount to be tied to a bank for the next 10+ years and living off a relatively small salary in comparison to the investment that you have committed into this career.
I have also noted that the cost of such integrated schools has risen dramatically in the past 12 months. I know for one FTO the exchange rate between the pound and the euro has caused the increase in price, but other schools seem to have follow suit even in the current economic situation. Surely the cost of fuel etc hasn’t caused a 15% price increase in course costs over this time. Would I be correct in thinking that the flight schools are suffering from a reduced intake of pupils, therefore a rise in fees will cover the deficit? I am sure that the when the pupil numbers start to increase again once the industry is looking positive, the course fee’s will not reduce and this will become the norm.
I will be gaining my PPL over the summer and enjoy private flying while waiting to see if the industry picks up over the next few years. Surely airlines must know how much of a struggle it is to get into this career, and offer some kind of help and support to wannabes, but then again with the likes of Ryanair about, they can only force the industry down further.
Sorry for the negativity in this post, but I’m sure my views will be shared by many people reading this forum. Any personal opinions on this post would be appreciated.
Thanks,
BackTrack14
I’ve been scouring these forums for a while now, but I feel like I need to have a bit of a rant about the current situation.
It seems to be apparent that to become an airline pilot you either need to be very rich or get yourself into unmanageable amounts of debt, without any guarantee of a job (unless you bag yourself a place on one of the rare mentored schemes).
I’m currently a student studying an aviation related degree and we have had representatives from some of the major integrated flight schools in the industry which boast that they are bringing “affordable flight training” to the masses. They talk about funding and getting out loans for £80,000 plus! I knew flight training was and is expensive but is it really worth getting out a loan of that amount to be tied to a bank for the next 10+ years and living off a relatively small salary in comparison to the investment that you have committed into this career.
I have also noted that the cost of such integrated schools has risen dramatically in the past 12 months. I know for one FTO the exchange rate between the pound and the euro has caused the increase in price, but other schools seem to have follow suit even in the current economic situation. Surely the cost of fuel etc hasn’t caused a 15% price increase in course costs over this time. Would I be correct in thinking that the flight schools are suffering from a reduced intake of pupils, therefore a rise in fees will cover the deficit? I am sure that the when the pupil numbers start to increase again once the industry is looking positive, the course fee’s will not reduce and this will become the norm.
I will be gaining my PPL over the summer and enjoy private flying while waiting to see if the industry picks up over the next few years. Surely airlines must know how much of a struggle it is to get into this career, and offer some kind of help and support to wannabes, but then again with the likes of Ryanair about, they can only force the industry down further.
Sorry for the negativity in this post, but I’m sure my views will be shared by many people reading this forum. Any personal opinions on this post would be appreciated.
Thanks,
BackTrack14
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Surely airlines must know how much of a struggle it is to get into this career, and offer some kind of help and support to wannabes, but then again with the likes of Ryanair about, they can only force the industry down further.
Sorry, they are a business, they have no interest in offering help or support. They have many many pilots every day begging them for jobs.
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Hey there,
The problem is that most of the schools are simply greedy
You would think that prices would go down and there will be some super offers out there for people willing to spend their money on flight training in such difficult times, but no...
Dont let them fool you with there nice website, "great" offers, "best" training, airlines holding pool and other crap...
You can do the training your self for half of what the asking and you will have the same "book" as people that paid +80k.
They still feed all teenagers and other fools with stories that even now there is plenty of jobs on jets (for integrated cadets ONLY) in places like Vietnam, China and God know what else... Hahaha
Trust me, there is NO school in the world that will simply "give" you your first airline job. Its all up to you and the end...
The problem is that most of the schools are simply greedy
You would think that prices would go down and there will be some super offers out there for people willing to spend their money on flight training in such difficult times, but no...
Dont let them fool you with there nice website, "great" offers, "best" training, airlines holding pool and other crap...
You can do the training your self for half of what the asking and you will have the same "book" as people that paid +80k.
They still feed all teenagers and other fools with stories that even now there is plenty of jobs on jets (for integrated cadets ONLY) in places like Vietnam, China and God know what else... Hahaha
Trust me, there is NO school in the world that will simply "give" you your first airline job. Its all up to you and the end...
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Agree with most of your points. It is still an elistist industry, and the types entering it are generally:
1. Ex Military
2. Funded by rich family
3. Late 20s/early 30s who worked and saved
4. Sponsored
5. Massive loan (not many of these around anymore)
6. A combination of the above
There will never be a shortage of inexperienced Pilots as there will always be plenty of people trying to get into this industry. No one has a natural right and everyone faces the same problems year on year. For that reason, there will never be an easy route into the industry, so to get in you'll need to fall into one of the above.
I do find it interesting that some people decide they want to fly for a living before they have completed the PPL, sometime even before they have done a single flight.
If like most you are looking at option 3 or 5, I agree with the last post. Don't fall into the overpriced trap, pick good schools and go modular and you should shave at least £20k off the cost.
1. Ex Military
2. Funded by rich family
3. Late 20s/early 30s who worked and saved
4. Sponsored
5. Massive loan (not many of these around anymore)
6. A combination of the above
There will never be a shortage of inexperienced Pilots as there will always be plenty of people trying to get into this industry. No one has a natural right and everyone faces the same problems year on year. For that reason, there will never be an easy route into the industry, so to get in you'll need to fall into one of the above.
I do find it interesting that some people decide they want to fly for a living before they have completed the PPL, sometime even before they have done a single flight.
If like most you are looking at option 3 or 5, I agree with the last post. Don't fall into the overpriced trap, pick good schools and go modular and you should shave at least £20k off the cost.
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At the risk of starting a mod vs integrated debate (which I don't want to do), you can do it for £50k all in via the modular route.
You can save £25,000 in four years with a bit of commitment (live at home, live frugally etc).
You can still (just about) get a loan for £25,000. If you take one out over 7 years, it works out about £350-£400 per month.
Now, the above requires dedication and will not be easy. But it is very 'doable' for most with minimal help.
My point is, you can do it if you want to. You may not go to OAA with 'special airline relationships', but you can do it.
The fact that there are literally thousands of jobless low hour fATPLs in the UK alone is a good indicator.
All you have to do is decide when the right time to start is.
As for help from the airlines; why would they do that? Like I say, there are shedloads of applicants per FO position. Very much a buyer's market!
Good luck!
EK
You can save £25,000 in four years with a bit of commitment (live at home, live frugally etc).
You can still (just about) get a loan for £25,000. If you take one out over 7 years, it works out about £350-£400 per month.
Now, the above requires dedication and will not be easy. But it is very 'doable' for most with minimal help.
My point is, you can do it if you want to. You may not go to OAA with 'special airline relationships', but you can do it.
The fact that there are literally thousands of jobless low hour fATPLs in the UK alone is a good indicator.
All you have to do is decide when the right time to start is.
As for help from the airlines; why would they do that? Like I say, there are shedloads of applicants per FO position. Very much a buyer's market!
Good luck!
EK
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As I've mentioned in other threads; I think an easier way for someone on a budget is to gain your PPL, start the ATPL Groundschool distance learning and slowly hour build. At this point you won't have invested a massive amount of money and you can do this over a few years whilst working. As a holder of PPL, ATPL Theory and 150 hours you're in a better position to approach a bank fo a loan should you you need one, and only 2-4 months away from having the CPL/IR/MCC so can judge your timing much better in relation to the market.
It has nothing to do with being rich, it's about being determined.
It has nothing to do with being rich, it's about being determined.
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It seems to be apparent that to become an airline pilot you either need to be very rich or get yourself into unmanageable amounts of debt
ksPlease explain that one? Ever heard about working for X amount of years to pay off well over 75% of the training? Then studying part-time? So you have a sustainable income which pays for the remainder of the training?
Why the rush? Or is it because you are intent on doing things integrated?
Whilst I was lucky enough to not face the financial hardships the majority of cadets face, I still know of many colleagues who only became pilots in their late twenties, early thirties and had no more than £5K of loans.
Please feel free to come here and rant. We all do it.
But don't come out with sensationalist BS like that sentence I have quoted.ANYONE can afford to be a pilot.
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Betpump,
Behave! Unmanageable amouts of debt is quite correct Im afraid with insane interest rates to boot, folloewd by a life of ... crap pay, crap rosters, no home time, contstant standbys, bull***T, .... shall I contiue the list??
As they say, there is no other job quite like it!
I dont fly Commercially, but have a few close friends who do and these are just a few of the bits and bobs highlighted!
Just my two pennys worth!
Behave! Unmanageable amouts of debt is quite correct Im afraid with insane interest rates to boot, folloewd by a life of ... crap pay, crap rosters, no home time, contstant standbys, bull***T, .... shall I contiue the list??
As they say, there is no other job quite like it!
I dont fly Commercially, but have a few close friends who do and these are just a few of the bits and bobs highlighted!
Just my two pennys worth!
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ANYONE can afford to be a pilot.
Couldn't be more true. May take some time but anyone can save up for it if they are motivated enough. Getting yourself into unmanageable debt is totally optional.
insane interest rates to boot
I'd hardly call them insane, lending someone 60k for speculative pilot training is very risky and that risk is priced into the rates the bank charge.
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expedite08,
did you bother to read my reply?
If you want to be a pilot and have dreamt about it ever since blah blah...zzzz, then you have two choices.
1. Ransom Mum and Dad's house for 70-80K or get a loan for that amount.
or
2. Work for X years to save up 100% of the training or a percentage of the training and/or work full time and pay-as-you go.
Going with option 2 means no/next to no loans. No risk to Mum and Dad. No risk if there is no shiny-jet job at tthe end of it. And you make yourself more marketable.
so, in this current climate...um...er...its a tough one...I'd probably go with option 2??
Unimaginable debts is part of option 1. So don't take option 1 unless you can afford it! If you do take option 1 and can't afford it, then there is no way you'll be sitting with me on the FD. How can I trust you to make a good decision?
did you bother to read my reply?
If you want to be a pilot and have dreamt about it ever since blah blah...zzzz, then you have two choices.
1. Ransom Mum and Dad's house for 70-80K or get a loan for that amount.
or
2. Work for X years to save up 100% of the training or a percentage of the training and/or work full time and pay-as-you go.
Going with option 2 means no/next to no loans. No risk to Mum and Dad. No risk if there is no shiny-jet job at tthe end of it. And you make yourself more marketable.
so, in this current climate...um...er...its a tough one...I'd probably go with option 2??
Unimaginable debts is part of option 1. So don't take option 1 unless you can afford it! If you do take option 1 and can't afford it, then there is no way you'll be sitting with me on the FD. How can I trust you to make a good decision?
