Did anyone find training as hard as I do?
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AvEnthusiast,
As usual, utter nonsense. Ever heard of a paragraph?
Curlygig,
If we want to be immature about it (I can't believe I'm even entertaining this conversation BUT).....
Point 1: I think you will find that a pilot is seen as more glamorous than Doctor or Lawyer (lol if only they knew the truth that the Virgin Advert is complete bull).
Point 2: Depends on the pilot!
As usual, utter nonsense. Ever heard of a paragraph?
Curlygig,
If we want to be immature about it (I can't believe I'm even entertaining this conversation BUT).....
Point 1: I think you will find that a pilot is seen as more glamorous than Doctor or Lawyer (lol if only they knew the truth that the Virgin Advert is complete bull).
Point 2: Depends on the pilot!
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The PPRuNe mission statement: No silver lining shall ever go un-clouded.
BetPumpS - I try hard to be avoid being confrontational, but really - AVenthusiasts English might be trying, but (s)he is trying to get some reassurance. There is just no need for your response - no need at all. Remember you too had once never flown and probably had your own crosses to bear.. Particularly since you seem to have got your break in the business by being paid for and given a break by daddy....might therefore be nice to show even just a little humility...
Aventhusiast - Just put it down to a bad day. A pre-solo check flight means ABSOLUTELY nothing in the longer term. Refer to my earlier post....in twenty hours time, you'll find it quite easy. It doesn't matter if it takes you twenty hours or 2 to go solo.... You will have far bigger disasters in your early flight training, so really just accept it as the first of many learning experiences...
BetPumpS - I try hard to be avoid being confrontational, but really - AVenthusiasts English might be trying, but (s)he is trying to get some reassurance. There is just no need for your response - no need at all. Remember you too had once never flown and probably had your own crosses to bear.. Particularly since you seem to have got your break in the business by being paid for and given a break by daddy....might therefore be nice to show even just a little humility...
Aventhusiast - Just put it down to a bad day. A pre-solo check flight means ABSOLUTELY nothing in the longer term. Refer to my earlier post....in twenty hours time, you'll find it quite easy. It doesn't matter if it takes you twenty hours or 2 to go solo.... You will have far bigger disasters in your early flight training, so really just accept it as the first of many learning experiences...
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Feeling nervous and unsure about all this . . .
I'm on the "other" side of the learning environment, as some of you know, I do the ground school at a certain north central Florida JAA FTO which has been mentioned once or twice in these hallowed pages of Pprune (but I digress slightly).
Over the past ten years, I've worked with probably close to 2,000 PPL candidates. The most important thing for *ME* to remember is that everyone learns at a different rate. Some people learn some things quickly, others pick them up a bit more slowly. Tomorrow, the same two people will swap, and they person who breezed through yesterday will be stumped today, and the person who struggled yesterday gets it in a moment.
Fortunately, the classes are usually small, perhaps half a dozen at a time, and that lets me pay attention to EACH student and watch the non-verbal cues from EACH student to see if they are puzzled, confused, bored, (asleep) or - and this is the payoff - experiencing the "AHA!" moment when suddenly everything becomes clear in a flash.
This is most evident when I teach the ARC-1 (or CRP-1 or E-6B). This is not a lecture where I can just drone on like some sort of robotic bulldozer, for this one I have to pay close attention to each and every step for each and every student. I engage in personal, individual conversations during this class because I need to make sure everyone has GOT IT before I move to the next step. This is because everything builds on what came before, and if someone doesn't have the basics, the rest isn't going to happen.
The problem arises when I have one who gets it quickly and one who is rather slower. I have to keep the fast ones from falling asleep while I bring the slower ones along gently so as not to terrify them and put them off completely. It can sometimes be a lot of work and a delicate balancing act, but in the end, everyone gets it and the much-feared ARC-1 is no longer a terror, but a new best friend.
Temporary discouragement is a common problem. When faced with something that just doesn't make sense, the usual and quite human response is avoidance. This immediately creates frustration because it isn't possible to just quit and go home - most people have far too much invested in learning to fly (financially and emotionally) to do that.
Fortunately, we persevere.
There is also a "learning curve". Ideally, it would be a smooth, gentle progression from the first moment ("the pointy end is the front, right?") to the conclusion, when the graduate proudly (and rightfully so) accepts the ATPL and walks around on the swimming pool for an hour or so.
Real world, the learning curve is more like a motocross course. Bumpy. Rocks. Messy. Not straight. Portions seem impassible, have to go around instead. No matter how low your opinion of yourself might be at the moment, I will guarantee that someone out there is struggling more than you are. People are different - that's why Mozart did music and I do airplanes (although I am surely not as good at airplanes as Mozart was at music).
Relax, sleep on it, do something else for an hour or a day, take a break, don't hammer your head against a wall.
But don't give up - anything worth achieving is worth struggling for.
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
Over the past ten years, I've worked with probably close to 2,000 PPL candidates. The most important thing for *ME* to remember is that everyone learns at a different rate. Some people learn some things quickly, others pick them up a bit more slowly. Tomorrow, the same two people will swap, and they person who breezed through yesterday will be stumped today, and the person who struggled yesterday gets it in a moment.
Fortunately, the classes are usually small, perhaps half a dozen at a time, and that lets me pay attention to EACH student and watch the non-verbal cues from EACH student to see if they are puzzled, confused, bored, (asleep) or - and this is the payoff - experiencing the "AHA!" moment when suddenly everything becomes clear in a flash.
This is most evident when I teach the ARC-1 (or CRP-1 or E-6B). This is not a lecture where I can just drone on like some sort of robotic bulldozer, for this one I have to pay close attention to each and every step for each and every student. I engage in personal, individual conversations during this class because I need to make sure everyone has GOT IT before I move to the next step. This is because everything builds on what came before, and if someone doesn't have the basics, the rest isn't going to happen.
The problem arises when I have one who gets it quickly and one who is rather slower. I have to keep the fast ones from falling asleep while I bring the slower ones along gently so as not to terrify them and put them off completely. It can sometimes be a lot of work and a delicate balancing act, but in the end, everyone gets it and the much-feared ARC-1 is no longer a terror, but a new best friend.
Temporary discouragement is a common problem. When faced with something that just doesn't make sense, the usual and quite human response is avoidance. This immediately creates frustration because it isn't possible to just quit and go home - most people have far too much invested in learning to fly (financially and emotionally) to do that.
Fortunately, we persevere.
There is also a "learning curve". Ideally, it would be a smooth, gentle progression from the first moment ("the pointy end is the front, right?") to the conclusion, when the graduate proudly (and rightfully so) accepts the ATPL and walks around on the swimming pool for an hour or so.
Real world, the learning curve is more like a motocross course. Bumpy. Rocks. Messy. Not straight. Portions seem impassible, have to go around instead. No matter how low your opinion of yourself might be at the moment, I will guarantee that someone out there is struggling more than you are. People are different - that's why Mozart did music and I do airplanes (although I am surely not as good at airplanes as Mozart was at music).
Relax, sleep on it, do something else for an hour or a day, take a break, don't hammer your head against a wall.
But don't give up - anything worth achieving is worth struggling for.
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
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Clanger32,
Judging by your posts, you are indeed non confrontational. However I do believe that some of your posts attract a comeback due to what you say.
As you guessed correctly, I did have my own crosses to bear, which is why I offered the opportunity to the OP for a PM.
In terms of AvEnthusiast, his English is actually very good. This can only come about from reading books and other English literary sources so I am sure he has seen how things are constructed hence the non-use of paragraphs is just plain lazy.
"Non confrontational" - hardly when you use the term "daddy". Whilst it was paid for (which is not exactly unusual considering I was 16 when I started my PPL), I'm not sure what you mean by "and given a break". As if he got me my first job via some contact. This was not the case. he merely informed me after reading an article in the newspaper.
Judging by your posts, you are indeed non confrontational. However I do believe that some of your posts attract a comeback due to what you say.
As you guessed correctly, I did have my own crosses to bear, which is why I offered the opportunity to the OP for a PM.
In terms of AvEnthusiast, his English is actually very good. This can only come about from reading books and other English literary sources so I am sure he has seen how things are constructed hence the non-use of paragraphs is just plain lazy.
"Non confrontational" - hardly when you use the term "daddy". Whilst it was paid for (which is not exactly unusual considering I was 16 when I started my PPL), I'm not sure what you mean by "and given a break". As if he got me my first job via some contact. This was not the case. he merely informed me after reading an article in the newspaper.
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It doesn't matter if it takes you twenty hours or 2 to go solo.... You will have far bigger disasters in your early flight training, so really just accept it as the first of many learning experiences...
have you been doing? Those who had 50 extra hours and are proud of their first time passes make me laugh...Once again,you don't need any kind of talent to go solo early,all you need is hard work...To achieve something you always need to sacrifice something...If you waste your time,trying to find out who else here is as useless as you are,instead of discussing the problem with your instructor or reading books that might help,or sitting in the a/c on the ground,etc. etc.,then I should admit that flight deck is not the best place for you.
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Oh put a sock in it Abagnale- you do talk BS.
I'm outta here. See you all on Wednesday to see what other drivel has been written here.
To the OP, on my last flight, I mucked up the approach and basically flew it wishy washy all the way to DH.. It happens. Hows my confidence now? Its fine. How's my pride-bloody bruised? Even experienced guys like me have bad days.
I'm outta here. See you all on Wednesday to see what other drivel has been written here.
To the OP, on my last flight, I mucked up the approach and basically flew it wishy washy all the way to DH.. It happens. Hows my confidence now? Its fine. How's my pride-bloody bruised? Even experienced guys like me have bad days.
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Abagnale,
Fair comment to some degree....clearly it does say something of your ability if you need 50 extra hours to go solo for the first time...but I would strenuously defend that going first solo at 20 hours means absolutely cock all in the wider scheme of things, as opposed to 15. In the same context, someone who goes first solo at 10 hours as opposed to 15 is not necessarily a better pilot.... For example, I took a whole half hour longer than I should have done to go first solo....does that make me any worse than anyone else, even though I passed CPL/170/IR first time in min hours afterwards?
If you've done 50 hours and STILL not been sent solo, then yes...you hsould perhaps consider whether you should continue pursuing this as anything other than a pastime..
Fair comment to some degree....clearly it does say something of your ability if you need 50 extra hours to go solo for the first time...but I would strenuously defend that going first solo at 20 hours means absolutely cock all in the wider scheme of things, as opposed to 15. In the same context, someone who goes first solo at 10 hours as opposed to 15 is not necessarily a better pilot.... For example, I took a whole half hour longer than I should have done to go first solo....does that make me any worse than anyone else, even though I passed CPL/170/IR first time in min hours afterwards?
If you've done 50 hours and STILL not been sent solo, then yes...you hsould perhaps consider whether you should continue pursuing this as anything other than a pastime..
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2 BetpumpS:
What irritates you so much,my friend?Oh,wait,probably I know...Didn't your daddy kindly pay for your training or maybe even bought you a TR?You got your first job on 737,didn't you?Well,probably you didn't care much about money spent on extra hours,exams,etc. , that's why it's not really important for you...My daddy wasn't so rich as yours and I had to get a degree first,then work for a couple of years to pay for my training,so for me it was very important how I was going to spend hardly earned cash and if i am speaking BS,then please explain what is the main idea of training as you see it...Because what everyone,including you,is trying to prove here - "Don't worry,you will have days much worse than that"- just doesn't suite me right.Of course,we all have up and downs,but a REAL AVIATOR will always try to strive for self perfection and not moan like a lady
What irritates you so much,my friend?Oh,wait,probably I know...Didn't your daddy kindly pay for your training or maybe even bought you a TR?You got your first job on 737,didn't you?Well,probably you didn't care much about money spent on extra hours,exams,etc. , that's why it's not really important for you...My daddy wasn't so rich as yours and I had to get a degree first,then work for a couple of years to pay for my training,so for me it was very important how I was going to spend hardly earned cash and if i am speaking BS,then please explain what is the main idea of training as you see it...Because what everyone,including you,is trying to prove here - "Don't worry,you will have days much worse than that"- just doesn't suite me right.Of course,we all have up and downs,but a REAL AVIATOR will always try to strive for self perfection and not moan like a lady
Hovering AND talking
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Betpimp (if you want to be immature regarding names 
) - a doctor requires a 5 year course, lawyers at least 4 years. An integrated ATPL course takes a year. As was mentioned before, flying is largely a skill whereas doctors and lawyers require an intellectual capacity.
A pilot may be seen as "glamourous" by those who know no better but that is not the same as "prestigious". Qualified doctors and lawyers tend to have a certain amount of respect for others in their profession and engender encouragement towards those who are training in those professions.
Cheers
Whirls
) - a doctor requires a 5 year course, lawyers at least 4 years. An integrated ATPL course takes a year. As was mentioned before, flying is largely a skill whereas doctors and lawyers require an intellectual capacity.A pilot may be seen as "glamourous" by those who know no better but that is not the same as "prestigious". Qualified doctors and lawyers tend to have a certain amount of respect for others in their profession and engender encouragement towards those who are training in those professions.
Cheers
Whirls
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Sounds like you're having a bad day. You just need to learn from it, put it behind you, and try again.
I have been flying commercial jets for years, yet not so long ago, I cut in too tight on a visual, got too high and had to go round. Embarassing, yes, dangerous, no. Put it behind me and get it right the next time.
Remember, Aviate, navigate, communicate
And the two golden rules:-
1. Always fly the plane
2. Don't forget Rule 1
Incidentally, sounds like you have your head in the cockpit too much. When my students used to do that I'd cover the main instruments with Posted Notes and make them look out the window. They were usually amazed as to how accurate they could be !! Try it sometime with your instructor.
I have been flying commercial jets for years, yet not so long ago, I cut in too tight on a visual, got too high and had to go round. Embarassing, yes, dangerous, no. Put it behind me and get it right the next time.
Remember, Aviate, navigate, communicate
And the two golden rules:-
1. Always fly the plane
2. Don't forget Rule 1
Incidentally, sounds like you have your head in the cockpit too much. When my students used to do that I'd cover the main instruments with Posted Notes and make them look out the window. They were usually amazed as to how accurate they could be !! Try it sometime with your instructor.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Breezed the RPPL (Aus license)
Struggled with the PPL.
Had a bit of a battle with the IR
Breezed the N VFR
Had a battle then changed schools then breezed the CPL.
Battled the Aus ATPLs
Passed the JAA ATPLs (no way would I say breezed them)
Now a jet captain.
So long as your peaks and troughs aren't exceptional, you're fine. Talk to your CFI though.
Struggled with the PPL.
Had a bit of a battle with the IR
Breezed the N VFR
Had a battle then changed schools then breezed the CPL.
Battled the Aus ATPLs
Passed the JAA ATPLs (no way would I say breezed them)
Now a jet captain.
So long as your peaks and troughs aren't exceptional, you're fine. Talk to your CFI though.
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I feel like that's the main reason profession is becoming less and less prestigious
What do you think the most prestigious occupations and professions are?
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in resume, if you can not be soloed after 15h-20h, forget about this job!!!
some pilots need 30-40-or even 50h....
some pilots need 30-40-or even 50h....
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Rather right than "right now"
It doesn't matter if it takes you twenty hours or 2 to go solo.... You will have far bigger disasters in your early flight training, so really just accept it as the first of many learning experiences...
"It matters...It shows how fast you can learn...The purpose of any training is to complete it in minimum time required,if you go solo in 20+ hours,than what the
have you been doing? Those who had 50 extra hours and are proud of their first time passes make me laugh...Once again,you don't need any kind of talent to go solo early,all you need is hard work"
No Abagnale, that's wrong. If you were in my classroom or in my airplane I would rather you learned it RIGHT in preference to boasting about learning it "right now".
In education, it is well known that the newest thing you learned is the first thing you'll forget.
It isn't a speed contest - if your haste encourages you to cut corners, you die. Take the time to do it right. If it takes a little longer, so be it.
As far as the purpose of any training is to complete it as quickly as possible, that is totally wrong. The purpose of any training is to learn the material properly. If it can be done relatively quickly, fine. If it can't be done quickly, that's fine too - the point is not the SPEED but the QUALITY.
(And I find myself agreeing that the Pprune mission statement seems to be making sure there is a cloud for every silver lining . . .)
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
"It matters...It shows how fast you can learn...The purpose of any training is to complete it in minimum time required,if you go solo in 20+ hours,than what the
have you been doing? Those who had 50 extra hours and are proud of their first time passes make me laugh...Once again,you don't need any kind of talent to go solo early,all you need is hard work"No Abagnale, that's wrong. If you were in my classroom or in my airplane I would rather you learned it RIGHT in preference to boasting about learning it "right now".
In education, it is well known that the newest thing you learned is the first thing you'll forget.
It isn't a speed contest - if your haste encourages you to cut corners, you die. Take the time to do it right. If it takes a little longer, so be it.
As far as the purpose of any training is to complete it as quickly as possible, that is totally wrong. The purpose of any training is to learn the material properly. If it can be done relatively quickly, fine. If it can't be done quickly, that's fine too - the point is not the SPEED but the QUALITY.
(And I find myself agreeing that the Pprune mission statement seems to be making sure there is a cloud for every silver lining . . .)
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
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Whirlygig. Here in Australia we study for our ATPL as part of a degree in Aviation which takes us 4 years-with that we graduate with the frozen CASA ATP and +- 200 hours. Just like a Doctor does 5 years theory then 2 years as an intern to get his Medical Licence we have to build our hours up to 1500 which takes roughly 2 years too in order to get our full ATPL. A doctor takes 7 years, doing it my way takes about 6....not much of a difference from my point of view.
I do agree that getting into med school is more difficult than flight school but thats the reason as to why flight school has a higher drop out rate.
Ok, i'm ready to get kicked around now
I do agree that getting into med school is more difficult than flight school but thats the reason as to why flight school has a higher drop out rate.
Ok, i'm ready to get kicked around now
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Cheer up AvEnthusiast!
You have already started doing better than ever before!!
As many pals have said, the key words here are the positive mindset and high determination.
Being here addressing your worries and concerns is the first positive step
One of the greatest quotes that honestly has made my life better:
"If you think YOU CAN do it, you will. If you think you can't, then you won't"
It's really amazing when you believe in your abilities no matter how hard the task is. Never be so worried about doing it right from the first time, because "only practice makes perfect". So you better keep thinking of your brain as your magic tool:
1. It can smoothly be ready and calm as soon as you take your seat.
2. It can swiftly adapt and react to any given situation while you fly.
3. It can make your eyes, hands and feet accurately respond whenever you come to execution.
4. It can easily store and retreive the skills you train for.
This is no bull$hit psychological trick. It's all about adjusting your mental power to the level of the challenge! It works for me, and it will work for everybody too!
You might have heard about the law of attraction. As much as you love flying and appreciate the job, you are certainly going to put the extra effort that is needed to excell. Soon after, you will find the AC surrendering to your command!
Best of luck
You have already started doing better than ever before!!
As many pals have said, the key words here are the positive mindset and high determination.
Being here addressing your worries and concerns is the first positive step
One of the greatest quotes that honestly has made my life better:
"If you think YOU CAN do it, you will. If you think you can't, then you won't"
It's really amazing when you believe in your abilities no matter how hard the task is. Never be so worried about doing it right from the first time, because "only practice makes perfect". So you better keep thinking of your brain as your magic tool:
1. It can smoothly be ready and calm as soon as you take your seat.
2. It can swiftly adapt and react to any given situation while you fly.
3. It can make your eyes, hands and feet accurately respond whenever you come to execution.
4. It can easily store and retreive the skills you train for.
This is no bull$hit psychological trick. It's all about adjusting your mental power to the level of the challenge! It works for me, and it will work for everybody too!
You might have heard about the law of attraction. As much as you love flying and appreciate the job, you are certainly going to put the extra effort that is needed to excell. Soon after, you will find the AC surrendering to your command!
Best of luck