Real Quickie - Yes /No Advice
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge
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Hey, life may revolve around money, but it's not all about money,
Again, take any information here with that important pinch of salt, including what I say to you because anything that anyone tells you is 90% based on personal experience. What I will say is that as a whole, this forum breeds negativity; when there's a recession it's mostly "There are no jobs!!" or "The market is flooded with experienced guys, you are just joining the back of the queue!". On the other hand, when there's an economic boom, it's all, "Unfortunately no matter how hard you try, the harsh reality is that most people with the ambition to fly airliners will never achieve it," or "Remember there is always somebody better than you ready to take your place at the interview, is that really worth a £40-100k investment?"
So however you look at it, this really isn't the best place to be asking questions at all (personally I think the site should be shut down but that's another story entirely) - you get the odd one or two very helpful, informative answers from genuine people trying to help. Whatever else is written (good or bad) is generally tainted within the subliminal unconsciousness by the fact that the average, competitive pilot will interpret the usernames of this forum as competition. That probably explains why there are 'PPRuNe personalities' and 'Pilot personalities' - mates of mine have been on here and been told they won't succeed for whatever reason, and yet when they're talking to a pilot in real life and they see my friend for who he is, it's a whole different story because it's human nature to relate to another human, not to a computer.
Again, apologies for the drift, but I feel that's an important point to make.
All opinions (in my judgment), good or bad, are worth taking in - remember, 'rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools'. And going by the way some prooners put their points across, in their mind that IS the rules!
In saying that, I still wouldn't like to be referred to as a 'nob' if I had 250 hrs
Happy days, Ad
Again, take any information here with that important pinch of salt, including what I say to you because anything that anyone tells you is 90% based on personal experience. What I will say is that as a whole, this forum breeds negativity; when there's a recession it's mostly "There are no jobs!!" or "The market is flooded with experienced guys, you are just joining the back of the queue!". On the other hand, when there's an economic boom, it's all, "Unfortunately no matter how hard you try, the harsh reality is that most people with the ambition to fly airliners will never achieve it," or "Remember there is always somebody better than you ready to take your place at the interview, is that really worth a £40-100k investment?"
So however you look at it, this really isn't the best place to be asking questions at all (personally I think the site should be shut down but that's another story entirely) - you get the odd one or two very helpful, informative answers from genuine people trying to help. Whatever else is written (good or bad) is generally tainted within the subliminal unconsciousness by the fact that the average, competitive pilot will interpret the usernames of this forum as competition. That probably explains why there are 'PPRuNe personalities' and 'Pilot personalities' - mates of mine have been on here and been told they won't succeed for whatever reason, and yet when they're talking to a pilot in real life and they see my friend for who he is, it's a whole different story because it's human nature to relate to another human, not to a computer.
Again, apologies for the drift, but I feel that's an important point to make.
All opinions (in my judgment), good or bad, are worth taking in - remember, 'rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools'. And going by the way some prooners put their points across, in their mind that IS the rules!
In saying that, I still wouldn't like to be referred to as a 'nob' if I had 250 hrs
Happy days, Ad
Join Date: May 2006
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Life is too short to wake up in the morning with regrets, so love the people who treat you right, forget about the ones who don't, and believe that everything happens for a reason. If you get a chance, take it. If it changes your life, let it. Nobody said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it."
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Thanks again all for your views. Some good debate going there with probably an equal amount of people for and against. It's given me lots to think about!!
Cheers
Llen
Cheers
Llen
Join Date: May 2006
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It's all about attitude...
Llen,
Your story sounds similar to mine 2 years ago:
- good job in financial industry, working as CA in big 4
- am turning 35 this year
- got divorced, but still had enough money to finance bulk of the training
- did PPL in SA, hour building in Florida & a bit fun flying in UK & Germany
Here's how I did it:
- continued working while doing ATPL exams
- tax laws allow a person to offset training costs (makes a huge difference)
- took a 6-month 'sabatical' from my job to do modular practical CPL/ME/IR
- after training, found a job with an airline, but I had to pay my own 737 type rating. Having a good credit rating from previous job, made financing this bit over 5 years no problem.
Some tips:
- keep your job as long as you can, and keep yourself flexible to going back if you need to
- maintain your good credit ratings/overdraft facilities as long as possible
- avoid the large pilot pools of the English speaking world such as UK, US & Spain. Training & job hunting in the remaining European countries if far less competitive, as it's not in their culture to take such large risks with their careers/savings. Think: the higher the barriers to entry, the less the competition
- keep an open mind to jobs, languages, countries etc. There are many biz jet companies hiring in Central/Eastern Europe. None of these are advertised, you have to hunt for them.
- keep your training modular - if it doesn't work out, quit before you've spent too much
- shop around, but don't underestimate the value of a flight school with a good reputation. All ATPL's or TR's are not equal.
- brush up on your social, networking and negotiation skills
- learn an additional language (or at least commit to)
- believe in yourself
To sum up:
- as a finance guy, your risk is minimal. You'll still find work even if this whole pilot thing fails. Airline managers, flight dispatchers, ops etc. are also paid well. ATPL studies wont hurt your prospects of doing something in the airline industry.
- you only live once, so imho, go for it!
Your story sounds similar to mine 2 years ago:
- good job in financial industry, working as CA in big 4
- am turning 35 this year
- got divorced, but still had enough money to finance bulk of the training
- did PPL in SA, hour building in Florida & a bit fun flying in UK & Germany
Here's how I did it:
- continued working while doing ATPL exams
- tax laws allow a person to offset training costs (makes a huge difference)
- took a 6-month 'sabatical' from my job to do modular practical CPL/ME/IR
- after training, found a job with an airline, but I had to pay my own 737 type rating. Having a good credit rating from previous job, made financing this bit over 5 years no problem.
Some tips:
- keep your job as long as you can, and keep yourself flexible to going back if you need to
- maintain your good credit ratings/overdraft facilities as long as possible
- avoid the large pilot pools of the English speaking world such as UK, US & Spain. Training & job hunting in the remaining European countries if far less competitive, as it's not in their culture to take such large risks with their careers/savings. Think: the higher the barriers to entry, the less the competition
- keep an open mind to jobs, languages, countries etc. There are many biz jet companies hiring in Central/Eastern Europe. None of these are advertised, you have to hunt for them.
- keep your training modular - if it doesn't work out, quit before you've spent too much
- shop around, but don't underestimate the value of a flight school with a good reputation. All ATPL's or TR's are not equal.
- brush up on your social, networking and negotiation skills
- learn an additional language (or at least commit to)
- believe in yourself
To sum up:
- as a finance guy, your risk is minimal. You'll still find work even if this whole pilot thing fails. Airline managers, flight dispatchers, ops etc. are also paid well. ATPL studies wont hurt your prospects of doing something in the airline industry.
- you only live once, so imho, go for it!
Last edited by MainDude; 17th Jan 2009 at 08:22. Reason: Bit more...
Join Date: Oct 2005
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In a word NO
You are unlikely to even get an interview within the next 2-3 years.
Fly at weekends for fun + then maybe in a couple of years do CPL and instruct
That will give you the hours and options should there be an upturn to give it a go.
All this "you only live once" bollocks is rose tinted specs. Find me a pilot with 15-20yrs experience who is telling you to "go for it" at the moment. Beware of the 18-25yr old age bracket on Pprune who have never seen a recession... they are going to get a very very nasty economics lesson over the next couple of years.
The world over the next 2-3 years is going to be a very different place to the last 2-3 years and it will be tough and unpleasent. You will rue the day you blew 50-60k on getting a frozen ATPL when the fun of learning is fading into the memory.
Ask yourself honestly what do you think the chances of getting a job is? Especially one that can fund a half decent standard of living? At the moment it is less than 10% if you ask me. So unless you really won't miss the money walk away.
You are unlikely to even get an interview within the next 2-3 years.
Fly at weekends for fun + then maybe in a couple of years do CPL and instruct
That will give you the hours and options should there be an upturn to give it a go.
All this "you only live once" bollocks is rose tinted specs. Find me a pilot with 15-20yrs experience who is telling you to "go for it" at the moment. Beware of the 18-25yr old age bracket on Pprune who have never seen a recession... they are going to get a very very nasty economics lesson over the next couple of years.
The world over the next 2-3 years is going to be a very different place to the last 2-3 years and it will be tough and unpleasent. You will rue the day you blew 50-60k on getting a frozen ATPL when the fun of learning is fading into the memory.
Ask yourself honestly what do you think the chances of getting a job is? Especially one that can fund a half decent standard of living? At the moment it is less than 10% if you ask me. So unless you really won't miss the money walk away.
Join Date: May 2006
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BTW,
There are two guys who i did ATPLS with, one who acheived his FATPL in AUG 08.....he now flies for Thomas Cook A320, the other one flies for Air Baltic 737.
They both got jobs at the end of last year, so there are jobs out there..............................
There are two guys who i did ATPLS with, one who acheived his FATPL in AUG 08.....he now flies for Thomas Cook A320, the other one flies for Air Baltic 737.
They both got jobs at the end of last year, so there are jobs out there..............................
Join Date: Apr 2008
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1) You only live once, there is no second lap.
2) When you die you can't take the money with you.
3) Any moment could be your last.
4) Economies and markets are cyclical.
5) This a welfare state, you will not starve.
2) When you die you can't take the money with you.
3) Any moment could be your last.
4) Economies and markets are cyclical.
5) This a welfare state, you will not starve.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I have to agree that ones saying you cant get an interview are talking BS.
There is post on Nordic forum, where Wideroe just had interview of new pilots on the 14.th of January.
Yes it is harder, but I believe with a little luck, and if you dont mind moving around, maybe there is a job.
Problem many english prefer only to speak english, would help if they had 1 or 2 extra languages, so they could apply for more jobs.
So saying there are NO new jobs, is not completly true. But to get in with the majors is probably impossible, but then again that should not be the first job a pilot gets either, in my opinion.
Learn to walk before you can run, thats what I hope to achieve over time. Small steps - and then see what happens!
There is post on Nordic forum, where Wideroe just had interview of new pilots on the 14.th of January.
Yes it is harder, but I believe with a little luck, and if you dont mind moving around, maybe there is a job.
Problem many english prefer only to speak english, would help if they had 1 or 2 extra languages, so they could apply for more jobs.
So saying there are NO new jobs, is not completly true. But to get in with the majors is probably impossible, but then again that should not be the first job a pilot gets either, in my opinion.
Learn to walk before you can run, thats what I hope to achieve over time. Small steps - and then see what happens!
