Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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20 reasons to cheer falling house prices
Thousands of pounds may be wiped off the value of your home as you read this, but property market crashes are not all bad. Here are 20 reasons not to be too downhearted about the downturn...
1. First-time buyers benefit. Falling prices make housing more affordable for first-time buyers, as long as they can save up a deposit
Money Central - Times Online - WBLG: 20 reasons to cheer falling house prices
1. First-time buyers benefit. Falling prices make housing more affordable for first-time buyers, as long as they can save up a deposit
Money Central - Times Online - WBLG: 20 reasons to cheer falling house prices
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heli_port
I can see some sense in your link. Its going to take some time though. Prices have certainly fell, but at that same time, deposits went up, so that has kept many first timers out of the market. Lenders are being more choosy who to lend to, so that keeps a few more out of the market. Those things needed to be done, but some more time has to pass before we see that real benefit being seen by the newcomers. As a side show, while the house price deflation continues to increase, it is a dissuader to buy something today that will be cheaper to buy tomorrow. As the market starts to bottom out, and no one knows where or when that may be, then the time will be ripe for the first time home buyers. I reckon a fall of upto 30% on summer 2008 may be near the bottom.
If anyone reading this is a wannabie, don't look at the tickers today, go to the pub instead.
I can see some sense in your link. Its going to take some time though. Prices have certainly fell, but at that same time, deposits went up, so that has kept many first timers out of the market. Lenders are being more choosy who to lend to, so that keeps a few more out of the market. Those things needed to be done, but some more time has to pass before we see that real benefit being seen by the newcomers. As a side show, while the house price deflation continues to increase, it is a dissuader to buy something today that will be cheaper to buy tomorrow. As the market starts to bottom out, and no one knows where or when that may be, then the time will be ripe for the first time home buyers. I reckon a fall of upto 30% on summer 2008 may be near the bottom.
If anyone reading this is a wannabie, don't look at the tickers today, go to the pub instead.
Say to most people that the price of Gas is falling, that diesel is getting cheaper and that bread will cost less and they smile - pleased.
Those same people then frown when you tell them that housing is doing the same.
Financial illiteracy is taught in school and has been for decades.
I have to say the American system of Governance is a powerful and majestic thing to behold at times. The Banksters *almost* heisted $700bn with no strings but in the end the system has paused, noted the views of the populace and said, NO - not on those terms and not in that way.
This will be at least a bad a recession as in 1991. Things then did not recover for Wannabes until 1996. This time we have the JAA rather than the purely National license system. I fear this will make things worse this time.
No less than 4 bank failures TODAY that would have each been NewsFlashes six months ago...
Then cast an eye at todays airline shareprices,
BA down 12.4% at 169p....
EZY down 9.04% at 304p...
RYR down 8.9% at 225p
and the overall FTSE down to 4820 the same point as it stood at in July 1997 (pass me the flux capacitor marty!) Oil fell sharply by a massive 7% to $98 but as I said before - OIL IS A SIDESHOW. See what I meant?
WWW
Those same people then frown when you tell them that housing is doing the same.
Financial illiteracy is taught in school and has been for decades.
I have to say the American system of Governance is a powerful and majestic thing to behold at times. The Banksters *almost* heisted $700bn with no strings but in the end the system has paused, noted the views of the populace and said, NO - not on those terms and not in that way.
This will be at least a bad a recession as in 1991. Things then did not recover for Wannabes until 1996. This time we have the JAA rather than the purely National license system. I fear this will make things worse this time.
No less than 4 bank failures TODAY that would have each been NewsFlashes six months ago...
Then cast an eye at todays airline shareprices,
BA down 12.4% at 169p....
EZY down 9.04% at 304p...
RYR down 8.9% at 225p
and the overall FTSE down to 4820 the same point as it stood at in July 1997 (pass me the flux capacitor marty!) Oil fell sharply by a massive 7% to $98 but as I said before - OIL IS A SIDESHOW. See what I meant?
WWW
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BA closed down 13% today at £1.68... it first reached that price in July 1987.... over 20 years ago.
Ryanair down 11%.... don't think price has ever been that low since it listed.
Don't even both looking at the banks
(especially if you are Irish)
Ryanair down 11%.... don't think price has ever been that low since it listed.
Don't even both looking at the banks
(especially if you are Irish)
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WWW you beat me to it..... 4 banks failures today.... several others shares down 40% today... more will follow.
These are not small banks either... Wachovia 6th biggest bank in the US.
Fortis is a huge bank/insurance company as well.
This will make 1991 look like a walk in the park.
Someone on here said a few weeks ago when people were flagging how bad this could get... "God if anyone else tells me to be afraid... jesus wept" or something to that effect..... well sir if you are not afraid now you are somewhat ignorant of what is going on around you.
Right I'm off to the pub... and its not easy to get a drink in this part of the world whilst Ramadan is going on! It doesn't rain it pours...
These are not small banks either... Wachovia 6th biggest bank in the US.
Fortis is a huge bank/insurance company as well.
This will make 1991 look like a walk in the park.
Someone on here said a few weeks ago when people were flagging how bad this could get... "God if anyone else tells me to be afraid... jesus wept" or something to that effect..... well sir if you are not afraid now you are somewhat ignorant of what is going on around you.
Right I'm off to the pub... and its not easy to get a drink in this part of the world whilst Ramadan is going on! It doesn't rain it pours...
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Forget everything I said earlier about intervention and the US bailout. Too late, someone flipped a domino, and the rest are starting to tumble.
The worst day so far
The worst day so far
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.... and to date we have probably only seen c10-20% of the impact this financial crisis will have in the "real world".... report in press here saying containers are stacking up at ports around the world as banks are now in many cases unable/unwilling to finance their movement around the world. Not a story I can verify myself but funnily enough it would not surprise me now.... I have seen a lot of stuff in the last 2 weeks I thought would never happen.
And people are still paying money for flight training.... ha ha ha ha ha.... who was it who said ignorance is bliss??.. he/she was on to something....
And people are still paying money for flight training.... ha ha ha ha ha.... who was it who said ignorance is bliss??.. he/she was on to something....
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Heard a rumour that the HBOS LTSB deal could be in doubt.
The US so far has thrown out the $700 billion bailout, the gavel has yet to come down though. Edit: AP and Reuters report the gavel down for a rejection
The Fortis failure is linked to its own earlier acquisition of a failing bank.
The Dow in free fall
I think this is the start.
The US so far has thrown out the $700 billion bailout, the gavel has yet to come down though. Edit: AP and Reuters report the gavel down for a rejection
The Fortis failure is linked to its own earlier acquisition of a failing bank.
The Dow in free fall
I think this is the start.
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House votes down bail-out package
The lower house of the US Congress has voted down a $700bn (£380bn) plan aimed at bailing out Wall Street.
BBC NEWS | Business | House votes down bail-out package
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US votes against bailout plan.
In the words of the outgoing and eloquent Leader of the Free World, "this sucker could go down" (i.e. the US economy)
This confirms something I have suspected for sometime... US politicians are stupid.
Prepare to reap the whirlwind of free markets. I fear it may cost many of you your jobs.
In the words of the outgoing and eloquent Leader of the Free World, "this sucker could go down" (i.e. the US economy)
This confirms something I have suspected for sometime... US politicians are stupid.
Prepare to reap the whirlwind of free markets. I fear it may cost many of you your jobs.
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If we have to rely on the market that created this mess to sort it out without any intervention it's going to take a long long time to recover to any resemblance of normality, and many innocent people never will. I pity anyone retiring on a personal pension in the next 20 years or indeed anyone who was hopeing to utilise an equity release scheme to fund their retirement.
I suspect half of the daft f*ckers only voted against it to keep there jobs, ironically most people they'll be representing will be unemployed.
Hopefully they will manage to repackage the deal in time to turn the unimaginable into just a mere catastrophic depression
I notice Branson is another step closer sending people on 'space holidays' lol, never mind space travel, I doubt the average person will be able to aford air travel for many years if something isn't done.
I suspect half of the daft f*ckers only voted against it to keep there jobs, ironically most people they'll be representing will be unemployed.
Hopefully they will manage to repackage the deal in time to turn the unimaginable into just a mere catastrophic depression
I notice Branson is another step closer sending people on 'space holidays' lol, never mind space travel, I doubt the average person will be able to aford air travel for many years if something isn't done.
Last edited by ChrisLKKB; 29th Sep 2008 at 20:04.
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Someone on here said a few weeks ago when people were flagging how bad this could get... "God if anyone else tells me to be afraid... jesus wept" or something to that effect..... well sir if you are not afraid now you are somewhat ignorant of what is going on around you.
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Because Artie Wannabees are not Ostriches and should not bury their heads in the sand.... please name a more relevent event going on in the world for wanabees at the moment?? I can't think of one.
Todays vote probably indirectly just cost 1000s more pilots their jobs and put back recruitment of low hour wanabees by several years.
And yet you would move the thread to JetBlast alongside jokes and comments on soap operas. Why because you don't like what is going on in the real world?? Back to the wanabee bubble of "it'll be different for me"
Todays vote probably indirectly just cost 1000s more pilots their jobs and put back recruitment of low hour wanabees by several years.
And yet you would move the thread to JetBlast alongside jokes and comments on soap operas. Why because you don't like what is going on in the real world?? Back to the wanabee bubble of "it'll be different for me"
The thread also stays as a monument to all the people such as myself and GSB and several others who spent considerable time and energy providing PPRuNe Wannabes with a MASSIVE early warning alarm about what is happening now.
Its also better in to have one long thread about this than have dozens keep popping up as and when the next element of the crisis surfaces.
There's a whole stack of other threads to read if you're bored of this one...
WWW
Its also better in to have one long thread about this than have dozens keep popping up as and when the next element of the crisis surfaces.
There's a whole stack of other threads to read if you're bored of this one...
WWW
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Damn it. Hah, republicans probably haunted their chances for elections, and gave a start to obama which nobody can succeed.
So now it is gonna happen, USD and USA meaning in the world economy will crash down, and China, Middle-east and India will grow their power.
But there is still chances that bailout plan will be accepted..
What will happen to wannabes? Nobody knows.
So now it is gonna happen, USD and USA meaning in the world economy will crash down, and China, Middle-east and India will grow their power.
But there is still chances that bailout plan will be accepted..
What will happen to wannabes? Nobody knows.
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For those who think the $700B is a bad idea...
(excerpts from The Bailout: Myths, Half-Truths, and Inconsistencies )
Myth: The proposed bailout will cost taxpayers at least $700 billion
Fact: The proposed $700 billion isn't a donation, a grant, or a gift -- it's an investment. The money will be used to purchase assets from banks at a steep discount to nominal value, and then sold down the road once the smoke clears. The proceeds from those sales will go back to the Treasury and pay off the debt issued for the bailout. It's completely reasonable to assume taxpayers could in fact profit
"In any case in which there is a shortfall, the President shall submit a legislative proposal that recoups from the financial industry an amount equal to the shortfall ..." Warren Buffett weighed in on this topic, saying, "If the government makes anything over its cost of borrowing, this deal will come out with a profit. And I would bet it will come out with a profit, actually."
Half-truth: This is a bailout of Wall Street
Fact: This is not a bailout of Wall Street: It's a bailout of the American financial system from a problem caused by Wall Street (as well as Main Street).
The portion that does get bailed out is the financial system that every single American relies on whether they know it or not. From grocery stores that rely on lines of credit to stock their shelves to small businesses that rely on credit to make payroll every month, there truly isn't an inch of the economy that wouldn't get sucked down the tubes in one way or another if the financial system were allowed to collapse.
Inconsistency: The economy won't implode if a big bank goes under
Fact: The only thing that stopped the domino-style financial meltdown was word that the mother of all bailouts was taking shape.
Inconsistency: Let 'em fail, the sooner they die, the sooner we recover
Hogwash. "Tough medicine" makes sense insofar as the medicine isn't so tough that it kills you. The big factor that needs to be addressed here is that foreigners own more than one-quarter of all the public debt in America, which in effect gives them the ability to send the financial system into Armageddon if they sense our financial fortitude teeters on collapse.
Any large-scale fallout in the financial sector could give foreigners a good reason to start dumping treasuries en masse, causing a bank run on the largest debtor in the world: the U.S. government. There is no doubt that such a run would push the value of the dollar to unimaginable lows, as well as cause a domestic credit crisis to boil into a currency meltdown. Such a meltdown would make any recovery several orders of magnitude more difficult than it would be with the bailout.
I'd be interested to hear anyones opinion who disagrees with the bail out as I can only imagine that you hold that view because you don't think the situation we are faced with is as dire as it is. Just because markets have recovered from down turns in the past doesn't mean they always will.
(excerpts from The Bailout: Myths, Half-Truths, and Inconsistencies )
Myth: The proposed bailout will cost taxpayers at least $700 billion
Fact: The proposed $700 billion isn't a donation, a grant, or a gift -- it's an investment. The money will be used to purchase assets from banks at a steep discount to nominal value, and then sold down the road once the smoke clears. The proceeds from those sales will go back to the Treasury and pay off the debt issued for the bailout. It's completely reasonable to assume taxpayers could in fact profit
"In any case in which there is a shortfall, the President shall submit a legislative proposal that recoups from the financial industry an amount equal to the shortfall ..." Warren Buffett weighed in on this topic, saying, "If the government makes anything over its cost of borrowing, this deal will come out with a profit. And I would bet it will come out with a profit, actually."
Half-truth: This is a bailout of Wall Street
Fact: This is not a bailout of Wall Street: It's a bailout of the American financial system from a problem caused by Wall Street (as well as Main Street).
The portion that does get bailed out is the financial system that every single American relies on whether they know it or not. From grocery stores that rely on lines of credit to stock their shelves to small businesses that rely on credit to make payroll every month, there truly isn't an inch of the economy that wouldn't get sucked down the tubes in one way or another if the financial system were allowed to collapse.
Inconsistency: The economy won't implode if a big bank goes under
Fact: The only thing that stopped the domino-style financial meltdown was word that the mother of all bailouts was taking shape.
Inconsistency: Let 'em fail, the sooner they die, the sooner we recover
Hogwash. "Tough medicine" makes sense insofar as the medicine isn't so tough that it kills you. The big factor that needs to be addressed here is that foreigners own more than one-quarter of all the public debt in America, which in effect gives them the ability to send the financial system into Armageddon if they sense our financial fortitude teeters on collapse.
Any large-scale fallout in the financial sector could give foreigners a good reason to start dumping treasuries en masse, causing a bank run on the largest debtor in the world: the U.S. government. There is no doubt that such a run would push the value of the dollar to unimaginable lows, as well as cause a domestic credit crisis to boil into a currency meltdown. Such a meltdown would make any recovery several orders of magnitude more difficult than it would be with the bailout.
I'd be interested to hear anyones opinion who disagrees with the bail out as I can only imagine that you hold that view because you don't think the situation we are faced with is as dire as it is. Just because markets have recovered from down turns in the past doesn't mean they always will.
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20 reasons to cheer falling house prices
Agree with Spinnaker. The government pretty much hammered the final nail in the housing market coffin today. B&B was/is the largest buy to let lender and with the demise of Parragon as well, many property investors are going to be scr*wed. Now being state owned the government doesn't want anything to do with the buy to let market.
It'll be 18-24 months before we reach rock bottom and i agree with 30% lower than this summer. however, in many areas I reckon it could be upto 50%.. While it may be a good time to be a 1st time buyer, it certainly isn't if you are a property investor..
How long before we see the government offering bailout packages to the housing market???!!!
It'll be 18-24 months before we reach rock bottom and i agree with 30% lower than this summer. however, in many areas I reckon it could be upto 50%.. While it may be a good time to be a 1st time buyer, it certainly isn't if you are a property investor..
How long before we see the government offering bailout packages to the housing market???!!!
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Chrislkkb,
Question now is going to be, " Is $700bn enough ?" especially in light of the Dow currently being 7% down today alone... If you weren't braced last week, reckon you should buckle up tighter this week... Heaven help the FTSE in the morning..
Question now is going to be, " Is $700bn enough ?" especially in light of the Dow currently being 7% down today alone... If you weren't braced last week, reckon you should buckle up tighter this week... Heaven help the FTSE in the morning..
Last edited by littco; 29th Sep 2008 at 23:57.
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Question now is going to be, " Is $700bn enough ?"
I seem to recall the original figure for TARP when it was first mentioned was 1 trillion.
I wonder how much inaction will cost this government and the tax payer in redundancy payments, unemployment benefits, housing benefits and lower tax revenue?
If anyone thinks that nationalising and bailing out failing banks is robbing from the tax payer, perhaps they should remember that the tax payer and the government were benefiting and reveling in all the free lending that was going on. They also created this problem so they should also shoulder the burden. If they don't think investors will be punished then perhaps they should check out how much the share prices have fallen in the past year or so.
