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Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us

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Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us

Old 13th Dec 2009, 14:19
  #3201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,218
Big Number

I couldn't agree with you more.

Remember CAE in Amsterdam and SAS academy in Sweden also provide a highly valuable service in conjunction with an airline based in Stansted called Ryan Air.

If it weren't for companies such these with a caring approach to aviation this industry would be in a complete mess.
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Old 13th Dec 2009, 14:48
  #3202 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 262
The wise thing to do would be to have 2 to 5 other career options - or jobs - in mind. Eggs in one basket and all that.

With regards to the UK Forces - some tough cutbacks are on the way including mooted "redundancies" - probably through recruitment freeze, natural wastage along with, in the RAF's case losing one or more airbases and aircraft types. And the Navy's carriers are still not commissioned yet!

The Army are recruiting strongly however - I do not know how close they are to reaching maximum this FY.

Good luck!
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Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:06
  #3203 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 139
NetJets Cuts 90% Of Hawker Jet Orders.


Still deflating

Last edited by cjd_a320; 15th Dec 2009 at 17:18.
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Old 15th Dec 2009, 22:46
  #3204 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Polymer Records
Posts: 597
And another airline teeters on the edge, look out for news on Thursday afternoon. Why is it always the Boeing operators. Its gone way beyond co-incidence.

Thoughts go out to all involved.
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Old 16th Dec 2009, 18:10
  #3205 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cranfield UK
Age: 66
Posts: 215

Just in from BBC News

Scotland's biggest airline, Flyglobespan, has been placed in administration.

A statement is expected soon from PricewaterhouseCoopers, (PWC) which has been appointed as administrator.

The move follows attempts to find a new investor for the Edinburgh-based airline, which employs 600 staff
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Old 16th Dec 2009, 18:19
  #3206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 5
awful news, for employees, passengers and wannabes alike.

Take heed wannabes, dont even think about training now, other airlines will follow suit, I imagine cash is at its lowest during winter months, illiquidity is like a bullet to the head and i am sure a few more scalps will follow.

How many pilots were at globespan? 100ish?
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Old 18th Dec 2009, 13:43
  #3207 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 5
maybe even Ryan are slowing down...

BBC News - Ryanair pulls out of Boeing deal for 200 aircraft

looks like the potenial source of lots of new FO jobs may also dry up...or could just be a ploy by old pikey to get boeing back to the table
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 04:13
  #3208 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Betwixt and between
Posts: 666
In relation to the above story:
Sir Stelios said yesterday: ďIím delighted that Michael OíLeary now accepts what Iíve been saying for over a year ó the era of endless fast growth and ever larger aircraft fleet is near its end.Ē
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 15:29
  #3209 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere between Avant and Vaton.....usually
Posts: 339
Well to be fair he has been trying to blow Sir Stelios out of the water pretty much where ever he goes. A prime example being East Mids. MOL has been bringing Sir Stelios down to his level( in relation to cost cutting) for a long long time. Dont get me wrong, an expression springs to mind when I think about MOL "live by the sword die by the sword"
There has been few winners and a lot of losers in this recession. As regards the head to head between MOL and Sir Stelios so far? Well you could probably guess who my money would be on. But then again Im not really a betting person, apart from the gamble I took to join FR, I havent lost out just yet. But who knows? One thing is for certain, NO one is bullet proof in these very hard times.

Last edited by go around flaps15; 19th Dec 2009 at 15:40.
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 16:53
  #3210 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,078
Not so. Ryanair still are contracted to take 112 737-800 from Boeing during the next three years.

From their press release:

Ryanair, today (Fri 18th Dec 09) confirmed that its quarterly Board meeting yesterday determined that its negotiations with Boeing for an order of up to 200 new B737-800 series aircraft for delivery during the period 2013-2016 cannot be successfully concluded prior to the end of the calendar year and accordingly the Board of Ryanair have confirmed that its negotiations with Boeing have terminated unsuccessfully.

Ryanair confirmed that the breakdown of these negotiations will not effect its plans to take delivery of 112 B737-800 aircraft during the next 3 calendar years 2010 (48), 2011 (37) and 2012 (27), which will sustain Ryanair's strong traffic growth over the medium term. Ryanair will now bring forward plans to significantly reduce growth and capital expenditures, in order to maximise cash balances for distribution to shareholders during the period 2012-2015.

I'm sure it's all just posturing from MoL.
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 20:02
  #3211 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wick
Posts: 1
The end of the first phase ?

Was the end of the first phase marked by a temporary boom in financial markets around the World, flush with cash from QE and what appeared to many to be the "exit" of most major economies from recession? Or have I put my "beer specs" on the wrong way round ?
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 22:58
  #3212 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: England
Posts: 17,618
There are no jobs.


At all.

For the next 4 years.

I promise you.

Even then the job will be poorly paid and demanding.

If you didn't pay £33k to be in the role you are doing well.


its over
Wee Weasley Welshman is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2010, 23:12
  #3213 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moon
Posts: 229
Thanks for the vote of confidence, what about people retiring, new airlines forming etc, agreed times are tough, but 4 years?
I know people who have had interviews in the past few weeks,
What about flight instructing?
Sorry if i sound like a miserable old ,
But its hard when im forking out all this money and people tell you its not worth it, belive me it is,
Before this i was scaffolding 7 days a week to support my fiancee and baby, saving to do my training, hard graft 12 hours a day, flying is a godsend, You say the wages are crap, maybe true, but i can
guarantee you this now, if you was throwing tube about all day in freezing cold temps, i would gladly sit in a flight deck for 20-25k a year.
or even wait for my chance, but i promise this, there a whole world out there, one day ill get the job.
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Old 12th Jan 2010, 23:58
  #3214 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ireland
Age: 34
Posts: 102
flyvirgin, don't beat yourself up too much mate...

... it's gone 11 pm, 'certain' people are no doubt on their poison by now. incidentally, these same 'certain people' (or rather certain 'person'), was predicting many more airlines to go boom this winter. i believe the exact phrase used was 'this winters gonna be a bloodbath' or similar... and is it? reeeeeally? haha, yeah times are heard, but a bloodbath? naah, you wusses!

come on mate, chin up. some time in the next few years will be a recruiter sat on the other side of a desk to you who still understands flying and where it comes from. they're hard to come by, but i left FR three years ago because i had the good fortune to be interviewed by somebody just like that. i shan't divulge too much, but let's just say your past sounds somewhat familiar to me...

it's not over.
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 03:22
  #3215 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Age: 29
Posts: 43
interviews don't mean there are jobs.

you just need to look what's going on in the world, and in the USA to get a good idea what will be the future. What will be YOUR future.

look at JAL and BA. these 2 companies may not see 2011.
You will see plenty of pilots out of jobs.
Believe guys who are in this market since years (like WWW)...

this profession is dead, and anyone (like me) who have been trained, we won't get anything in return except a nice shiny blue book.Who is interested by a 250h pilot???
I Lost my money!
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 06:55
  #3216 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moon
Posts: 229
I didn't say they were getting jobs! i said they were getting interviews, correct they are not job offers but it's a start dont you agree,
All im saying that there are airlines out there that are willing to take a 250hr pilot on,
also i know that some of the major airlines some in the middle east and asia are taking pilots on, (pilots who have 1500hr+).
The furture looks bleak for now, but why beat yourself up, stay positive and it will happen, it's got to happen.
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 08:11
  #3217 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,218
All im saying that there are airlines out there that are willing to take a 250hr pilot on
Yeah Ryanair.

I believe Loganair have just hired a few new FO's but they were instructors from Tayside and I also believe Eastern have hired some newbies too.

Flying Virgin I like your positive attitude but I think you have bitten off much more than you can chew: fiance, baby and ATPL all by the time you are 21??? I would stick to scaffolding if it can pay you the amounts needed to fund all three of those.

people retiring, new airlines forming etc
The retirement bulge has been talked about for years but I have never seen it affect recruitment in any big way, anyway BA has increased its retirement age from 55 to 60 and the legal retirement age for flying has been increased from 60 to 65. Believe me not but this has had a major impact on the retiral rate that you talk of and consequently the hiring rate too.

New airlines forming: can you give me the names of these new airlines please?

etc: can you give me a list of the etc's that will affect airline recruitment?

Sorry to be a fly in the ointment but unless you go the Ryanair route I can see no other way in at the moment however I would like be proved wrong. Keep us informed of what happens mate.
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 08:20
  #3218 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moon
Posts: 229
Smith thanks for the concern, but I have worked hard, for 5 years saved lots of money to pay for my family, training, even a type rating if needed, I'm lucky to be living at home with my parents. So why would I stick to scaffolding , when in a few years my office could be 35000ft in the air,
see hard graft pays off.
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 12:05
  #3219 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: opp north
Age: 44
Posts: 3
Flyvirgin, tread with caution my friend.
I am one of those 1500+ people who where gainfully employed until recently and trust me there are few to no jobs out there for the likes of us let alone someone with a new shinny blue book. Itís healthy to have ambition and dreams, but for the newly qualified and for people with a green book but not a command, at the moment and for some time to come, thatís all they will be.
If I were starting out right now, I wouldnít go past the exams stage as spending anything more on training (until this whole picture becomes clearer) may be financial suicide.
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Old 13th Jan 2010, 12:20
  #3220 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moon
Posts: 229
Thanks for your reply, Now i'm thinking wheather to delay my training till next year?
It don't make no oddzs to me, because i can get my licence CPL IR etc and not to worried about getting a job right away,
I used to scaffold on oil rigs which pays good money, so i could go back working there, apply for jobs and see what happens, i could pleasure fly while im waiting to stay current,
Is this a good idea, or just delay the bloody training,
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