Are more or less people training to fly now?
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As far as I am concerned sooner or later I will go into flight training (assuming I don't go blind or anything else like that). I've been told by many people, not least my dad that Uni is great fun- but going to uni for 3 years, then flight training for 18 months on top of that is both a long winded and very costly way of getting a fATPL and your first job.
Is it not more sensible to gain the fATPL, then maybe go and live in a student area and have that lifestyle having gained my first job? This way I would have gained my fATPL by the time most of my friends are just about to start uni (most of them taking gap years after college).
On top of this, most people come out of Uni and get their first job, If I were to go to uni I would effectively not start earning anything to payoff my huge debts until 23!
Thanks for all the help folks- please keep the advice comming
Is it not more sensible to gain the fATPL, then maybe go and live in a student area and have that lifestyle having gained my first job? This way I would have gained my fATPL by the time most of my friends are just about to start uni (most of them taking gap years after college).
On top of this, most people come out of Uni and get their first job, If I were to go to uni I would effectively not start earning anything to payoff my huge debts until 23!
Thanks for all the help folks- please keep the advice comming
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By going to uni not only are you spending 12k+ you are missing out on 3 years salary as a pilot which if you think about it, is actually 3 years Captain salary. So your degree could actually cos you +/- £312000 in the long run.
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"So your degree could actually cos you +/- £312000 in the long run."
Sorry to sound like a crusty old hippy, but there is more to life than money. Plus if the worst happens and you lose your class 1 and you don't have a bit of an insurance policy (like a backup degree) you also stand to lose three years or more at captain salary.
I've been at uni for nearly ten years, I did a batchelors in the UK then came to the US to do a Masters and PhD, the last two were completely paid for, I get a salary (thanks US taxpayer!) and I get to do exciting fieldwork like flying over the African Sahel at 500ft in BAe 146 (albeit not up front). I'm finishing up my final degree and there are a number of options open to me, including chasing the pilot dream (I'll get there some day!). It's a cliche but I feel I am rich in everything except money.
To put the stinky hippy hat back on: don't get so focussed on the destination that you miss the journey. I know airline pilots like to moan, but aside from the ever present big watches the industry doesn't seem as the same these days as when most of us started dreaming. Work hard, but enjoy yourselves.
Gareth.
Sorry to sound like a crusty old hippy, but there is more to life than money. Plus if the worst happens and you lose your class 1 and you don't have a bit of an insurance policy (like a backup degree) you also stand to lose three years or more at captain salary.
I've been at uni for nearly ten years, I did a batchelors in the UK then came to the US to do a Masters and PhD, the last two were completely paid for, I get a salary (thanks US taxpayer!) and I get to do exciting fieldwork like flying over the African Sahel at 500ft in BAe 146 (albeit not up front). I'm finishing up my final degree and there are a number of options open to me, including chasing the pilot dream (I'll get there some day!). It's a cliche but I feel I am rich in everything except money.
To put the stinky hippy hat back on: don't get so focussed on the destination that you miss the journey. I know airline pilots like to moan, but aside from the ever present big watches the industry doesn't seem as the same these days as when most of us started dreaming. Work hard, but enjoy yourselves.
Gareth.
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Yeah you could go and live in a student area when you get a job, as long as you can accept that you're NOT a student, you'll be working - HARD - and the last thing you'll want is to be kept awake at night by people coming back from clubs etc at 3 or 4 in the morning, and that that is most likely what will happen a few times a week.
Once you've left uni, you've left. Especially being a pilot which requires you to work odd and unsociable hours, it is unrealistic to think that having finished training you can then go and soak up the student lifestyle - you can't, you've missed the boat.
Your mates, won't have a job as soon, but they won't look back in a few years and realise that when they should have been enjoying themselves and getting out in the world, they were training full time and are now stuck in a career which gives them no leeway for the next 40 years.
And of course, that CV is going to look awfully bare...
Once you've left uni, you've left. Especially being a pilot which requires you to work odd and unsociable hours, it is unrealistic to think that having finished training you can then go and soak up the student lifestyle - you can't, you've missed the boat.
Your mates, won't have a job as soon, but they won't look back in a few years and realise that when they should have been enjoying themselves and getting out in the world, they were training full time and are now stuck in a career which gives them no leeway for the next 40 years.
And of course, that CV is going to look awfully bare...
Lets see. My degree from 1996. I poke an eye out tomorrow and am out of the flying business. You think my CV is going to shine with a 12 yr old degree which I haven't used for 9 years since I got my professional license is going to get me anywhere as a backup?
Not a chance.
As a backup plan a £12,000 three year degree course is rubbish.
WWW
Not a chance.
As a backup plan a £12,000 three year degree course is rubbish.
WWW
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That's rubbish! A degree doesn't necessarily have to show your knowledge in one field. A degree also has the purpose of showing you are capable of learning and disciplining yourself to learn to a certain level of education.
Unless you are doing a vocational type of degree (doctor/nurse/midwife etc) or going into a specific field, I have found that most of your education starts when you start your career. It’s the same with learning to fly or drive, once you've passed those exams and you're on your own that is when the learning starts!
I believe that 50% of the experience of going to University is to grow up, have fun, goto social clubs, carry out team sports and meet new people. As has been said many times before, I find many of my answers to interview questions come from my experience at Uni.
By all means make sure you go to Uni for the right reasons but don't skip it and regret not going later.
Unless you are doing a vocational type of degree (doctor/nurse/midwife etc) or going into a specific field, I have found that most of your education starts when you start your career. It’s the same with learning to fly or drive, once you've passed those exams and you're on your own that is when the learning starts!
I believe that 50% of the experience of going to University is to grow up, have fun, goto social clubs, carry out team sports and meet new people. As has been said many times before, I find many of my answers to interview questions come from my experience at Uni.
By all means make sure you go to Uni for the right reasons but don't skip it and regret not going later.
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WWW - I think it depends on how you define the term backup plan. For example, I see my backup (my grad job) as security so as to be able to keep up repayments on any debts I might entail over the next few years whilst training, and afterwards whilst looking for pilot jobs. I guess others may see it this way too.
This isn’t to say that anyone who really wants their office to be in a cockpit cannot work hard, save hard and train hard after leaving school whilst starting e.g. an apprenticeship or similar! – I have many friends who’ve done this and they earn a nice packet, albeit not as pilots.
The whole topic is very subjective and there is no right or wrong answer - of course if you lose your license after X years you're likely to start from the bottom in another industry and thus the degree is useless, but I'm pretty sure given a slight bit of common sense and experience an ex-pilot could land a decent ground job within aviation.
FlightDeckDave - totally agree on the 50% thing. Some of the most important things I've learned are dependency from the parents and friends, money/time management and interacting with other people.
This isn’t to say that anyone who really wants their office to be in a cockpit cannot work hard, save hard and train hard after leaving school whilst starting e.g. an apprenticeship or similar! – I have many friends who’ve done this and they earn a nice packet, albeit not as pilots.
The whole topic is very subjective and there is no right or wrong answer - of course if you lose your license after X years you're likely to start from the bottom in another industry and thus the degree is useless, but I'm pretty sure given a slight bit of common sense and experience an ex-pilot could land a decent ground job within aviation.
FlightDeckDave - totally agree on the 50% thing. Some of the most important things I've learned are dependency from the parents and friends, money/time management and interacting with other people.
A-levels do that and there are plenty of other ways of giving you life experiences that don't take 3 years of £4k a year fees, pays nothing and often involves dull lecture theaters.
The hijacking of Youth by the world of Academia is one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century.
WWW
The hijacking of Youth by the world of Academia is one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century.
WWW
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I have several friends with degree's, one with a PHD and i myself have umpteens of trade related quals and neither i nor they have ever been asked to prove it. I know lots of people , including myself that are where they are today from who they know, not what they know. And besides, since any tom dick and harry can get a degree in anything these days there value has plumetted, as with anything. Flood the market with cheap and easy degree's and there value declines. Just ask the person that serves you next time you go through the drive through.
I think apprenticeships are the way to go, the way i went. I have loads of little teaboys with nice pieces of paper, doesn't make there brews taste nicer
I think apprenticeships are the way to go, the way i went. I have loads of little teaboys with nice pieces of paper, doesn't make there brews taste nicer
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WWW, you left uni in 1996, 12 years ago, and since have doubtlessly gained extensive experience in your chosen field of work with thousands of hours PIC.
Of course, whatever your chosen field of work was, the degree that you did not use would now be of (very) limited importance. However you are, as I have just said, and as everyone is fully aware, NOT straight out of education, at whatever level, with no experience in your chosen field and you are not working towards a first job along with thousands of other low hour newbies. I would be unimpressed with my life if 12 years after leaving uni I had added nothing worthwhile or more significant than my degree.
Your ability to use it for backup died long ago, as you well know. Educational achievements are, pretty much universally, invalid once you have moved on to the next stage of life and career. Well most newbies are still at the stage after school or uni, and at this level, it IS relevant, especially as a place where many of us have gained any significant life experiences so far, as this thread is confirming.
A degree outside the world of aviation does still have a large part to play in being able to formulate a backup plan should the worst happen soon after licence issue.
Some would argue that as a career option, having spent either 40 or 70 grand on training that gives you at worst no job or 12 grand a year as an FI, flying is rubbish.
And FlightDeckDave, I also fully agree on the 50% thing.
Of course, whatever your chosen field of work was, the degree that you did not use would now be of (very) limited importance. However you are, as I have just said, and as everyone is fully aware, NOT straight out of education, at whatever level, with no experience in your chosen field and you are not working towards a first job along with thousands of other low hour newbies. I would be unimpressed with my life if 12 years after leaving uni I had added nothing worthwhile or more significant than my degree.
Your ability to use it for backup died long ago, as you well know. Educational achievements are, pretty much universally, invalid once you have moved on to the next stage of life and career. Well most newbies are still at the stage after school or uni, and at this level, it IS relevant, especially as a place where many of us have gained any significant life experiences so far, as this thread is confirming.
A degree outside the world of aviation does still have a large part to play in being able to formulate a backup plan should the worst happen soon after licence issue.
Some would argue that as a career option, having spent either 40 or 70 grand on training that gives you at worst no job or 12 grand a year as an FI, flying is rubbish.
And FlightDeckDave, I also fully agree on the 50% thing.
Last edited by cfwake; 3rd Jul 2008 at 15:57.
Well I did use my degree. I got a job in a hi-tec electrical manufacturer as a direct result of my university education. If paid enough to finance my CPL and ATPL exams.
My point was that as a Fall Back my now dust encrusted degree is near worthless. Time, technology and the law has moved on. Nobody would employ me now based on the excellent degree I gained over a decade ago. They would be mad to do so.
3 years. £12,000. Nah, as a backup plan its p155 poor.
WWW
My point was that as a Fall Back my now dust encrusted degree is near worthless. Time, technology and the law has moved on. Nobody would employ me now based on the excellent degree I gained over a decade ago. They would be mad to do so.
3 years. £12,000. Nah, as a backup plan its p155 poor.
WWW
