Britains Youngest ATPL Holder
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well done to him for doing so well
However I feel it p****s a lot of people off when people come on here stating this.....
Other people have tried hard getting this golden opportunity and maybe taken them a long time in doing so (i.e. not having well off parents). A lot of people have to fund this training themselves and work hard for it. Maybe these people would have done well if they had the chance earlier.
My point is....just because someone passed his training at 18/19 dosent make him a better pilot than someone who is in his late 20's/30's!!
However I feel it p****s a lot of people off when people come on here stating this.....
Other people have tried hard getting this golden opportunity and maybe taken them a long time in doing so (i.e. not having well off parents). A lot of people have to fund this training themselves and work hard for it. Maybe these people would have done well if they had the chance earlier.
My point is....just because someone passed his training at 18/19 dosent make him a better pilot than someone who is in his late 20's/30's!!
Last edited by XL319; 23rd Jun 2008 at 18:06.
Too true XL319! 
Have you ever met a 15 year old who doesn't think they're an adult or 18 year olds who don't know it all? Statistics regularly show that young men aged 17-24 are the prime cause of road traffic accidents. IMHO this is because they have the above average motor skills and reactions to match their raging and over-bubbling hormones, but not the maturity and experience to curb those instincts.
It's embarassing sounding like Victor Meldrew, but people in their teens and early twenties are simply lacking in an essential ingredient to making decisions under pressure - specifically, life experience. I honestly wouldn't feel as safe flying with a 19 year old at the sharp end as I would with a 30 year old with the same flying hours. I bet most of the travelling public would feel the same.
And as for what Adios said about GS marks, what a load of bananas. Anyone with access to the Question Bank ought to be getting average grades in the 90 percentile without burning the midnight oil. Put the effort in and getting close to 100% for each exam is very achievable. This young guy is at an age where academic learning is at its easiest, he was clearly very focused, and I bet he wasn't out clubbing most nights like most of us were at his age!
Have you ever met a 15 year old who doesn't think they're an adult or 18 year olds who don't know it all? Statistics regularly show that young men aged 17-24 are the prime cause of road traffic accidents. IMHO this is because they have the above average motor skills and reactions to match their raging and over-bubbling hormones, but not the maturity and experience to curb those instincts.
It's embarassing sounding like Victor Meldrew, but people in their teens and early twenties are simply lacking in an essential ingredient to making decisions under pressure - specifically, life experience. I honestly wouldn't feel as safe flying with a 19 year old at the sharp end as I would with a 30 year old with the same flying hours. I bet most of the travelling public would feel the same.
And as for what Adios said about GS marks, what a load of bananas. Anyone with access to the Question Bank ought to be getting average grades in the 90 percentile without burning the midnight oil. Put the effort in and getting close to 100% for each exam is very achievable. This young guy is at an age where academic learning is at its easiest, he was clearly very focused, and I bet he wasn't out clubbing most nights like most of us were at his age!
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Joshua has only one minor problem . . . at the present ..
When he starts turning on the aircraft yaw axis he irreparably start throwing up . .. . but he hold the ATPL frozen
only joking . . . .but . . .
at the end of the story . . . .
i don't mind about that and personally i'm not fascinated by the Aviation of Records -
bye
When he starts turning on the aircraft yaw axis he irreparably start throwing up . .. . but he hold the ATPL frozen
only joking . . . .but . . .
at the end of the story . . . .
i don't mind about that and personally i'm not fascinated by the Aviation of Records -
bye
roll_overWell he must be really clever if he did 4 proper A levels at 15/16
Hmmmm, I'd agree that you would have to be above average to get those grades at 16, but with A-Levels easier these days I don't think it marks him as some kind of a genius.
I stand to be corrected, but it's usually only Public Schools (i.e. fee-paying privately owned schools) who allow kids to take A-Levels early and this has always happened, so I presume that's what this kid did. The benefits of an expensive education huh?
Anyway, getting good grades at A-level and being a good pilot are two different things!!! I think you'll find that most good pilots aren't 'nerdy'!
Hmmmm, I'd agree that you would have to be above average to get those grades at 16, but with A-Levels easier these days I don't think it marks him as some kind of a genius.
I stand to be corrected, but it's usually only Public Schools (i.e. fee-paying privately owned schools) who allow kids to take A-Levels early and this has always happened, so I presume that's what this kid did. The benefits of an expensive education huh?
Anyway, getting good grades at A-level and being a good pilot are two different things!!! I think you'll find that most good pilots aren't 'nerdy'!
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Mikehotel152,
I can't help but feel you under estimate the difficulty of 'todays' A levels. It's so frustrating that the media make it out as if they are literally a piece of p*ss. The grade boundaries are still done in relation to the average student and so anyone who does well does well because they got a good mark compared to the average mark. No average 15/16 year old would be able to get a good grade in an A level exam, and usually they would be doing GCSEs at that age. So provided the article is reliable, he certainly isn't of average intellect.
Regardless of that, of course exam results have absolutely no bearing on how good a pilot you are.
I can't help but feel you under estimate the difficulty of 'todays' A levels. It's so frustrating that the media make it out as if they are literally a piece of p*ss. The grade boundaries are still done in relation to the average student and so anyone who does well does well because they got a good mark compared to the average mark. No average 15/16 year old would be able to get a good grade in an A level exam, and usually they would be doing GCSEs at that age. So provided the article is reliable, he certainly isn't of average intellect.
Regardless of that, of course exam results have absolutely no bearing on how good a pilot you are.
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I KNOW JOSH AT A PERSONAL LEVEL AND I ALSO ATTENDED BOTH THE SCHOOLS HE HAS BEEN AT. ALSO I WAS TAUGHT BY HIS MOTHER!
MORE TO THE POINT, JOSH GOT A LEVELS IN PHYSICS AND MATHS AND OTHERS WHEN HE WAS 18, NOT 16. SOMEONE HAS MIS-STATED THAT.
Hes a great guy, and is 2 years older than me, and was in my sisters group of mates. He managed to be selcted into OAT out of 6 people, all with degrees (I think). He achieved OATs best ever pass rate for IR and he is one of the youngest people to graduate with a fATPL because of the time of year when his birthday falls. (think that of all 6 formers that go on to OAT his birthday comes around late in the year, most of the others come sooner).
Although he was not funded by his father, he recieved help securing a loan, but he owes it all back. Why cant someone get help from family to make a dream come true? Family are there to offer support. Just because some of you guys couldnt find that support, doesnt mean others should be ridiculed for having it. I myself could borrow some money from my family, but not the full amount, so Im going to work myself there. No problem in borrowing from family what so ever. its like borrowing from a bank with no interest!
MORE TO THE POINT, JOSH GOT A LEVELS IN PHYSICS AND MATHS AND OTHERS WHEN HE WAS 18, NOT 16. SOMEONE HAS MIS-STATED THAT.
Hes a great guy, and is 2 years older than me, and was in my sisters group of mates. He managed to be selcted into OAT out of 6 people, all with degrees (I think). He achieved OATs best ever pass rate for IR and he is one of the youngest people to graduate with a fATPL because of the time of year when his birthday falls. (think that of all 6 formers that go on to OAT his birthday comes around late in the year, most of the others come sooner).
Although he was not funded by his father, he recieved help securing a loan, but he owes it all back. Why cant someone get help from family to make a dream come true? Family are there to offer support. Just because some of you guys couldnt find that support, doesnt mean others should be ridiculed for having it. I myself could borrow some money from my family, but not the full amount, so Im going to work myself there. No problem in borrowing from family what so ever. its like borrowing from a bank with no interest!
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What are we all harping on about ?
There was a recent graduate from OAA who joined BA at 18 with fATPL.
Also there are several 19 year old's ex OAA and other establishments with fATPL on courses with airlines now. They may be 19 or 20 by the time they finish their line training. But at any age its no mean feat to be flying in the right seat of a modern jet, as it takes hard work and dedication to achieve that goal.
Good luck to this young man.
If he's that exceptional then he should get a job soon, maybe we will hear on the news that he's the youngest ...... etc etc etc.
All credit to those out there of ANY age who achieve their fATPL its no small thing.
Getting high grades or first time examination passes does not matter to some recruiters. The first time passes in the flight checks and 1st series IR are more important.
Finally the individuals personality matters when it come to maturity and "Can I sit next to him for X hours" is a major factor in the individual fitting into their organisation.
Good luck to all out there job hunting, take whatever is offered to you.
Get that foot on the first rung of the ladder, whatever the aircraft type.
There was a recent graduate from OAA who joined BA at 18 with fATPL.
Also there are several 19 year old's ex OAA and other establishments with fATPL on courses with airlines now. They may be 19 or 20 by the time they finish their line training. But at any age its no mean feat to be flying in the right seat of a modern jet, as it takes hard work and dedication to achieve that goal.
Good luck to this young man.
If he's that exceptional then he should get a job soon, maybe we will hear on the news that he's the youngest ...... etc etc etc.
All credit to those out there of ANY age who achieve their fATPL its no small thing.
Getting high grades or first time examination passes does not matter to some recruiters. The first time passes in the flight checks and 1st series IR are more important.
Finally the individuals personality matters when it come to maturity and "Can I sit next to him for X hours" is a major factor in the individual fitting into their organisation.
Good luck to all out there job hunting, take whatever is offered to you.
Get that foot on the first rung of the ladder, whatever the aircraft type.
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MikeHotel152,
So I'm peddling bananas, Josh is nerdy and all 18 YOs are know it alls? That's quite a broad brush you paint with.
If it's so easy, why are 99% averages almost never heard of? 94-95% is common, but 99% is unique and that's all I wrote. I guess if one is pedantic, then 99% is not unique, as the adjective implies only one instance. While I wouldn't attempt ATPL theory without a good question bank, there's still a lot of hard graft to be applied as well as some pretty severe time management constraints.
He obviously put in the effort, stayed focused, probably didn't party excessively. Does that sound like a typical nerdy 18 YO or someone who values hard graft and recognizes the seriousness of a £75K investment? He is not unique in this, as there are dozens of sub 20 YOs and even more older students doing the same at FTOs all across Europe.
Maybe you should meet him before judging him so harshly. I was almost ready to agree with you on the value of life experience. In fact, I agree with much of what you write on a broad range of topics, but tossing out stereotypical cliches is not what I would expect these lessons of life experience would lead one to do.
So I'm peddling bananas, Josh is nerdy and all 18 YOs are know it alls? That's quite a broad brush you paint with.
If it's so easy, why are 99% averages almost never heard of? 94-95% is common, but 99% is unique and that's all I wrote. I guess if one is pedantic, then 99% is not unique, as the adjective implies only one instance. While I wouldn't attempt ATPL theory without a good question bank, there's still a lot of hard graft to be applied as well as some pretty severe time management constraints.
He obviously put in the effort, stayed focused, probably didn't party excessively. Does that sound like a typical nerdy 18 YO or someone who values hard graft and recognizes the seriousness of a £75K investment? He is not unique in this, as there are dozens of sub 20 YOs and even more older students doing the same at FTOs all across Europe.
Maybe you should meet him before judging him so harshly. I was almost ready to agree with you on the value of life experience. In fact, I agree with much of what you write on a broad range of topics, but tossing out stereotypical cliches is not what I would expect these lessons of life experience would lead one to do.
Last edited by Adios; 23rd Jun 2008 at 23:59.
Nothing wrong with peddling Bananas. They're a great source of energy. 
I take your point Adios. I was deliberately painting with a broad brush to make a point. I don't know Josh and he is probably a very nice, friendly chap. I think I said this in a previous post (unless I deleted it while editing). However, it appears from what others have said that he didn't do all his A-Levels at 16, so that changes the debate slightly. In any event, I agree that getting a top grade for the ATPL requires a great deal of effort. I put in a fair amount of effort too. I don't know what the average ATPL grade might be, but I do know from personal experience that you can get, say, 98% for Principles of Flight without mastering the subject or having a mathematical background. But it's certainly easier to get high grades when you're in your teens. Your brain absorbs things more quickly. I remember studying things in ATPL Meteorology earlier this year and suddenly remembering studying the same thing when I did my Geography Degree in the late 90s. I sat there amazed, recalling that I had understood it all back then, but now, 10 years on I couldn't get my head around it!
I have no idea whether this young guy values the huge investment he's making in his chosen career path. I haven't passed judgment on him in that respect. Hell, I invested a lot of money in becoming a lawyer and I've chosen to leave that profession.
I guess I come to this debate from the prospective of someone who made decisions to embark on a particular career at the same age as Josh, invested a lot of money and effort, and ultimately decided that it wasn't for me in the long term. I see so many guys aged 20/21 doing their ATPL and I wonder how many have really sat down and looked at themselves and what they want. Despite being a pretty sensible, well-rounded guy, I made stupid decisions when I was younger. I can honestly say that I matured more between the ages of 21 and 25 than I did between 16 and 21.
Berksflyer - I think you'll find I said he was clearly of above average intellect and must have worked very hard. All credit to him. My point, and one which I've been debating with Adios, is that I don't think you have to be a genius to achieve what this guy has achieved. If you aren't a genius, then, IMHO, putting so much effort into such a narrow career path, at such a young age, means that you miss out on the broader picture. To use the tired metaphor: you are putting all your eggs in one basket. You're also missing out on so much of the fun of being young. There's no rush to get into the right-hand seat of a jet!
PS: If I had my time again, I would still go to University and then turn to flying training.
I take your point Adios. I was deliberately painting with a broad brush to make a point. I don't know Josh and he is probably a very nice, friendly chap. I think I said this in a previous post (unless I deleted it while editing). However, it appears from what others have said that he didn't do all his A-Levels at 16, so that changes the debate slightly. In any event, I agree that getting a top grade for the ATPL requires a great deal of effort. I put in a fair amount of effort too. I don't know what the average ATPL grade might be, but I do know from personal experience that you can get, say, 98% for Principles of Flight without mastering the subject or having a mathematical background. But it's certainly easier to get high grades when you're in your teens. Your brain absorbs things more quickly. I remember studying things in ATPL Meteorology earlier this year and suddenly remembering studying the same thing when I did my Geography Degree in the late 90s. I sat there amazed, recalling that I had understood it all back then, but now, 10 years on I couldn't get my head around it!
I have no idea whether this young guy values the huge investment he's making in his chosen career path. I haven't passed judgment on him in that respect. Hell, I invested a lot of money in becoming a lawyer and I've chosen to leave that profession.
I guess I come to this debate from the prospective of someone who made decisions to embark on a particular career at the same age as Josh, invested a lot of money and effort, and ultimately decided that it wasn't for me in the long term. I see so many guys aged 20/21 doing their ATPL and I wonder how many have really sat down and looked at themselves and what they want. Despite being a pretty sensible, well-rounded guy, I made stupid decisions when I was younger. I can honestly say that I matured more between the ages of 21 and 25 than I did between 16 and 21.
Berksflyer - I think you'll find I said he was clearly of above average intellect and must have worked very hard. All credit to him. My point, and one which I've been debating with Adios, is that I don't think you have to be a genius to achieve what this guy has achieved. If you aren't a genius, then, IMHO, putting so much effort into such a narrow career path, at such a young age, means that you miss out on the broader picture. To use the tired metaphor: you are putting all your eggs in one basket. You're also missing out on so much of the fun of being young. There's no rush to get into the right-hand seat of a jet!
PS: If I had my time again, I would still go to University and then turn to flying training.
I remember Aer Lingus sending us a sponsored cadet down to Jerez who was turning 17 on the day his course started. I had stopped instructing and joined an airline by the time he was due to graduate but I think he was going to be something like 18yrs and one month when he was due to complete his CPL/IR Frzn ATPL course.
Lets face it - we has teenagers in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain.
WWW
Lets face it - we has teenagers in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain.
WWW
Re-Heat - Just as WWW is warning that spending £70k on an Integrated Course in the present economic slowdown is a risk, I think making a huge financial and emotional investment in a particular career at 19 is a risk. And despite what you may think, my thoughts and 'advice' are not motivated by sour grapes.
Last edited by Mikehotel152; 24th Jun 2008 at 08:55.
Avoid imitations
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The bloke's obviously far too clever to be a pilot.
Well done to him.
Well done to him.
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I'm sure no one's knocking the lad, he's clearly determined and enthusiastic, but the thing here is a classic example of the media not having a clue about how things work in the airline industry. It is not that special to have an fATPL at 19, and there are many who actually are flying with airlines at this age. The reason why there's a discussion on here is because a newspaper has made it out as if the achievement is unique, when clearly it isn't. But then again, the general public share the media's, dare I say, ignorace about the airline industry and pilots inparticular, so of course these people aren't on our level when it comes to commenting on how much of an achievement it is to be qualified at a young age. The lad's unfortunate in a way that his story made it into a local paper.