Ways to get there...
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Good, that means I can make a decision on where to do my PPL based purely on convenience and quality of school - rather than thinking about the ATPL situation as well.
Looks like it is a better idea to wait until after uni before starting a PPL. barké I could never consider 'dropping out of uni' - hope you don't mind me disagreeing, but I commit to everything I do.
smith No need to be sarcastic?
I doubt I'd have funding for much flying during uni, but I could still apply for the UAS right? I think it would be better to concentrate on the degree, then concentrate on the flight training afterwards. I don't like the idea of having large gaps between flying - especially at an early stage of learning.
David UK So true about the careers advisors not knowing much about aviation jobs.
Looks like it is a better idea to wait until after uni before starting a PPL. barké I could never consider 'dropping out of uni' - hope you don't mind me disagreeing, but I commit to everything I do.
smith No need to be sarcastic?
I doubt I'd have funding for much flying during uni, but I could still apply for the UAS right? I think it would be better to concentrate on the degree, then concentrate on the flight training afterwards. I don't like the idea of having large gaps between flying - especially at an early stage of learning.
David UK So true about the careers advisors not knowing much about aviation jobs.
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An update, 2.5 years on...
Thought I would resurrect this thread and let you know how I'm getting on. Not that anyone's interested (but I'd like to think someone out there will benefit from reading this!)
So, during my second year of college (A-level finals 2009), I began training for my JAA PPL at Leicestershire Aeroclub. Meanwhile, I applied for a place on the Mathematics (G100) course at The University of Nottingham. As the year went by, flying went well and I was progressing through the PPL. College went well and I was offered a conditional place at Nottingham (among others).
Summer was lovely. A-level results arrived in August and I got my confirmed place at Nottingham. In September, after 3 cancellations for my Skills Test, I passed the PPL - with 5 days to spare before I moved to Nottingham.
Flying was being funded by part-time work. I'd like to offer my strongest recommendations for Leicester Airport. The rates are excellent (£122ph dual, C-152). Throughout my training, everyone I met was supportive and encouraging. During the year, I flew with almost every one of the 4-5 outstanding instructors (including the CFI). It is a great place to learn to fly and I would recommend it to anyone in the area.
In 2009, I was lucky enough to win an Air League scholarship which paid for my final 12 hours before the Skills Test. I'd like to take the opportunity to once again thank the Air League for their wonderful generosity in awarding this scholarship. The interview/selection process was a great experience and I met many interesting people from different parts of the country!
I am now in second year on the Maths course. Uni is incredible. I've learnt more in the last 2 years about life than I had ever done in my previous 18. Do not pass up the opportunity to go to uni - you will regret it.
I am still very much determined to become an airline pilot. My plan is to come out of uni with a respectable degree and enter into any well-paying full-time job for a few years. This is a question I want to ask: What jobs or sectors would you suggest?
All going well, I'll gather together enough cash to start training modular for the ATPL. Hopefully the industry (and economy in general) will have picked up in a few years. Maybe a UK airline will be brave enough to offer some kind of sponsorship?
Happy New Year! Let's hope 2011 marks the return of aviation success.
So, during my second year of college (A-level finals 2009), I began training for my JAA PPL at Leicestershire Aeroclub. Meanwhile, I applied for a place on the Mathematics (G100) course at The University of Nottingham. As the year went by, flying went well and I was progressing through the PPL. College went well and I was offered a conditional place at Nottingham (among others).
Summer was lovely. A-level results arrived in August and I got my confirmed place at Nottingham. In September, after 3 cancellations for my Skills Test, I passed the PPL - with 5 days to spare before I moved to Nottingham.
Flying was being funded by part-time work. I'd like to offer my strongest recommendations for Leicester Airport. The rates are excellent (£122ph dual, C-152). Throughout my training, everyone I met was supportive and encouraging. During the year, I flew with almost every one of the 4-5 outstanding instructors (including the CFI). It is a great place to learn to fly and I would recommend it to anyone in the area.
In 2009, I was lucky enough to win an Air League scholarship which paid for my final 12 hours before the Skills Test. I'd like to take the opportunity to once again thank the Air League for their wonderful generosity in awarding this scholarship. The interview/selection process was a great experience and I met many interesting people from different parts of the country!
I am now in second year on the Maths course. Uni is incredible. I've learnt more in the last 2 years about life than I had ever done in my previous 18. Do not pass up the opportunity to go to uni - you will regret it.
I am still very much determined to become an airline pilot. My plan is to come out of uni with a respectable degree and enter into any well-paying full-time job for a few years. This is a question I want to ask: What jobs or sectors would you suggest?
All going well, I'll gather together enough cash to start training modular for the ATPL. Hopefully the industry (and economy in general) will have picked up in a few years. Maybe a UK airline will be brave enough to offer some kind of sponsorship?
Happy New Year! Let's hope 2011 marks the return of aviation success.
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great to hear rikesh!
I'm dong kinda the same, I finish my bachelor this year and will start my PPL this year to get some hours in the 2 years i got left at college.
Keep this topic updateed;-)
I'm dong kinda the same, I finish my bachelor this year and will start my PPL this year to get some hours in the 2 years i got left at college.
Keep this topic updateed;-)
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I think we have a lot of similarities my friend. Was your air league scholarship at Tayside in Dundee by any chance? I had a couple scholarships there through air cadets that got me 35 hours of my ppl.
That ppl I finished at Phoenix Aviation at Netherthorpe, near Worksop just north of Nottingham. (very cheap with no landing/membership/joining fees, and makes you excellent at landings - shortest licenced runway in the uk!) I mention that because I'm at Nottingham Uni too, in my third and final year of a physics degree.
I too have the eventual aim of being an airline pilot, although I have my heart set on doing some bush flying and similar first. I'll be starting my hour building and ATPL theory this summer after I graduate.
Drop me a pm if you'd like to meet up and chat in Nottingham once term starts. It's surprising how few pilots I meet in real life when there are supposedly thousands of qualified unemployed ones all over the place!
That ppl I finished at Phoenix Aviation at Netherthorpe, near Worksop just north of Nottingham. (very cheap with no landing/membership/joining fees, and makes you excellent at landings - shortest licenced runway in the uk!) I mention that because I'm at Nottingham Uni too, in my third and final year of a physics degree.
I too have the eventual aim of being an airline pilot, although I have my heart set on doing some bush flying and similar first. I'll be starting my hour building and ATPL theory this summer after I graduate.
Drop me a pm if you'd like to meet up and chat in Nottingham once term starts. It's surprising how few pilots I meet in real life when there are supposedly thousands of qualified unemployed ones all over the place!
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It's surprising how few pilots I meet in real life when there are supposedly thousands of qualified unemployed ones all over the place!
With a population of 61 million, you would have to meet 3588 people before you were statistically likely to meet an airline pilot.
Assuming that 20% of the 17000 are unemployed then your chances of meeting an unemployed airline pilot are one in 17941.
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Hi Rikesh! Glad to hear your doing well, and keep following the dream!
For me, I am currently doing option 2 -
2. Complete A-Levels, then do modular training towards an fATPL while keeping my part-time job to pay for it. Possibly take out a loan to assist, depending on the actual costs. Then, apply for airlines.
Well I havn't taken a loan out and don't plan to. I finished A Levels and have been in full time employment ever since, saving for my pilot training. And you know what, a bit of me says maybe I should have gone to Uni, but to be honest I still don't regret not going. I think things have changed over the years, and with soo many people comming out of uni waving their degrees in the air and not enough jobs to go round, I think really a degree is only worth doing if doing something specific like becomming a doctor, or a lawyer or a teacher.
By all means I agree that a degree is good to fall back on should things turn bad. But only if it's a degree that means something! Doing a degree in say television studies is not really going to do any favours for you. More employers now are really looking at what work experience you have had in sales or customer service etc. Plus think about the costs, the costs of doing a degree and then the pilot training is going to cost as much as an integrated course anyway.
At the end of the day, its up to the individual really in what they decide. I just wanted to put my version across to everyone, as quite a lot of people I know have either taken up the air force route, gone integrated, or went to uni.
Hope it goes well for you Rikesh!
For me, I am currently doing option 2 -
2. Complete A-Levels, then do modular training towards an fATPL while keeping my part-time job to pay for it. Possibly take out a loan to assist, depending on the actual costs. Then, apply for airlines.
Well I havn't taken a loan out and don't plan to. I finished A Levels and have been in full time employment ever since, saving for my pilot training. And you know what, a bit of me says maybe I should have gone to Uni, but to be honest I still don't regret not going. I think things have changed over the years, and with soo many people comming out of uni waving their degrees in the air and not enough jobs to go round, I think really a degree is only worth doing if doing something specific like becomming a doctor, or a lawyer or a teacher.
By all means I agree that a degree is good to fall back on should things turn bad. But only if it's a degree that means something! Doing a degree in say television studies is not really going to do any favours for you. More employers now are really looking at what work experience you have had in sales or customer service etc. Plus think about the costs, the costs of doing a degree and then the pilot training is going to cost as much as an integrated course anyway.
At the end of the day, its up to the individual really in what they decide. I just wanted to put my version across to everyone, as quite a lot of people I know have either taken up the air force route, gone integrated, or went to uni.
Hope it goes well for you Rikesh!
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Rikesh
You have taken a well balanced, methodical approach to your training so far.
A decade ago, this would still have been an excellent career choice for you, but I suspect the tide may have turned too much for you. If you're doing a maths degree, you're probably bordering on being a straight A student and I really question whether you will go down this career once you get sucked into a proper graduate role after your degree. It is not a question to answer now, as you will no doubt strongly object but let us know in another 2.5 years!
You have taken a well balanced, methodical approach to your training so far.
A decade ago, this would still have been an excellent career choice for you, but I suspect the tide may have turned too much for you. If you're doing a maths degree, you're probably bordering on being a straight A student and I really question whether you will go down this career once you get sucked into a proper graduate role after your degree. It is not a question to answer now, as you will no doubt strongly object but let us know in another 2.5 years!
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As of 2008 there were approximately 17000 ATPL/CPL holders in the UK.
With a population of 61 million, you would have to meet 3588 people before you were statistically likely to meet an airline pilot.
Assuming that 20% of the 17000 are unemployed then your chances of meeting an unemployed airline pilot are one in 17941.
With a population of 61 million, you would have to meet 3588 people before you were statistically likely to meet an airline pilot.
Assuming that 20% of the 17000 are unemployed then your chances of meeting an unemployed airline pilot are one in 17941.
, and I assure you they don't make up much of a proportion of those I meet. The people I do meet: those studying a maths/science/engineering course at uni like me, or those who frequent the airfields I fly at, however, I'm sure you'll agree are much more likely candidates.
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Here I am again with an update, regular as ever!
I applied for this in 2011 and have heard nothing back!
Meanwhile, I went for the BA FPP but was eliminated at the assessment centre stage. Didn't realise there would be a Physics test! Passed everything else and met some great candidates. In hindsight, with all those who've been placed in a hold pool, I'm not sure failing at this stage (only £200 down) was such a bad thing.
This hits the nail on the head. I will be starting a graduate job soon and many doubts are swirling through my mind. Do I spend the next few years saving and then spend £50k on modular ATPL training? Only to find myself in what has clearly become an employer's market.
I haven't been on these forums for a while, but a glance through the Interviews, jobs & sponsorship section tells me this:
Alternatively, do I work in the graduate role, progress up the ladder etc and keep flying as a passion? Build up hours, get some ratings (Night, IMC) and enjoy it whilst earning far more than I would as an (unemployed) commercial pilot? The only issue with this being that I would be forever looking up at the sky, wishing I was there.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the working world is like. It is likely that my experiences in the next couple of years that will determine whether I go down the airline pilot route or not. But regardless, I will continue to fly and maintain my PPL.
As always, please post your thoughts. Regards.
Perhaps you could try the cadetship with Cathay Pacific
Meanwhile, I went for the BA FPP but was eliminated at the assessment centre stage. Didn't realise there would be a Physics test! Passed everything else and met some great candidates. In hindsight, with all those who've been placed in a hold pool, I'm not sure failing at this stage (only £200 down) was such a bad thing.
A decade ago, this would still have been an excellent career choice for you, but I suspect the tide may have turned too much for you. If you're doing a maths degree, you're probably bordering on being a straight A student and I really question whether you will go down this career once you get sucked into a proper graduate role after your degree. It is not a question to answer now, as you will no doubt strongly object but let us know in another 2.5 years!
I haven't been on these forums for a while, but a glance through the Interviews, jobs & sponsorship section tells me this:
- There are many qualified, experienced pilots who cannot find work with airlines.
- Those who have jobs are rewarded with low salary and increasingly unfair working conditions.
- There is a growing culture of buying type ratings. Those with money can 'buy' their way into a job.
Alternatively, do I work in the graduate role, progress up the ladder etc and keep flying as a passion? Build up hours, get some ratings (Night, IMC) and enjoy it whilst earning far more than I would as an (unemployed) commercial pilot? The only issue with this being that I would be forever looking up at the sky, wishing I was there.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the working world is like. It is likely that my experiences in the next couple of years that will determine whether I go down the airline pilot route or not. But regardless, I will continue to fly and maintain my PPL.
As always, please post your thoughts. Regards.
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Interesting, isn't it, how at 17/18 we think we have to be on the flight deck by our early 20s and when we get to 20/21 we realise there is no real rush.
I'm glad, having seen your initial post, that you chose the direction you did. It is coincidentally the same path I took, albeit a couple of years ahead of yourself.
Whichever route you take you're going to do alright, and that's a nice feeling to have.
I'm glad, having seen your initial post, that you chose the direction you did. It is coincidentally the same path I took, albeit a couple of years ahead of yourself.
Whichever route you take you're going to do alright, and that's a nice feeling to have.
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Without going into too many details that may offend I'd simply say caution on CTC!!
If you are looking into them make sure you know EXACTLY what the terms of them "paying" for your training are. If there was a simple way to get training paid for and a "guaranteed" airline job at the end of it then every man and his dog would be doing it.
If you are looking into them make sure you know EXACTLY what the terms of them "paying" for your training are. If there was a simple way to get training paid for and a "guaranteed" airline job at the end of it then every man and his dog would be doing it.
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4015 - couldn't agree more. Would love to hear your story, especially since it seems to be quite similar to mine!
I thought I'd post an update on how things have progressed in the last 4 years. If nothing else, it's a great way for me to look back and see how my direction has changed over time!
In Sep 2012 I started a graduate job in London. With it, came the joys, trials and tribulations of working in the corporate world. I've learned a massive amount about work, life and everything in between. It's also given me fantastic opportunities to travel and see more of the world. Whilst I can't call work a 'passion' in the same way as flying, it's certainly done me a lot of good and enabled me to continue funding my flying.
Per posts above, as time went on I certainly saw the benefits of continuing to climb the corporate ladder but struggled to find a compelling argument to jump off it and train to become an airline pilot. What I can see is an increasingly competitive and tightly regulated market that is becoming more and more difficult to 1) break into and 2) feel well looked-after by your employer. Coupled with the ca. £100k cost of training over 1-2 years and the possibility that any health issue could render my career obsolete - I just couldn't bring myself to take the gamble. Obviously these are just my opinions based on reading posts here, observing the industry and researching the job market - which isn't the same as actually working in the industry. What I've said may not resonate with everyone - indeed I hope it doesn't, or we'd have no airline pilots left! Although maybe then, airlines would be forced to bring sponsorship schemes back
Anyway, at every opportunity I continued to rent aircraft from a few places:
- Leicester (which I have now stopped - PM if you're interested why)
- Bournemouth (Fly With Me Aviation - really good guy, hassle-free with no club overheads)
- Aeros Nottingham / Coventry (expensive but well equipped)
I've done some cool flying (albeit not as much as I'd have liked) - but kept myself current. I've crossed the channel a few times and visited some interesting places. Huge respect to Jersey for maintaining a lovely airport with friendly staff and great facilities, charging just £8 for a PA28 landing + overnight parking! I've done my Night Rating and a few hours of aerobatics, which were incredible. Can't wait to do more aeros!
After 4 years in London (or wherever the projects took me), I decided to make a change. I took a fancy to Berlin and moved there recently - I absolutely love it. If anyone knows how to go about renting aircraft in Germany, licence requirements, airfields in Berlin, any good contacts over there, etc. please give me a shout?
In terms of next steps with regards to flying, what I'd like to do is:
- First and foremost, continue flying. Whenever and wherever possible. It's still an uncomparably magic experience that I never want to let go.
- Build up hours and experience; aerobatics, perhaps IMC.
- I would like to instruct. Every time I take friends/family up, I find myself inadvertently teaching them the basics and they love it. I want to pass on the gift of flying and, now that PPL Instructor Ratings are possible, one day I would like to achieve that.
During this time, I've never stopped visiting PPRuNe (certainly a lot more often than I post). Massive thanks to the many posters, from whom I have gained more and more aviation knowledge on each visit. I will make a promise to myself to post more often from now on. I can't just keep taking
As always, please post your thoughts!
I thought I'd post an update on how things have progressed in the last 4 years. If nothing else, it's a great way for me to look back and see how my direction has changed over time!
In Sep 2012 I started a graduate job in London. With it, came the joys, trials and tribulations of working in the corporate world. I've learned a massive amount about work, life and everything in between. It's also given me fantastic opportunities to travel and see more of the world. Whilst I can't call work a 'passion' in the same way as flying, it's certainly done me a lot of good and enabled me to continue funding my flying.
Per posts above, as time went on I certainly saw the benefits of continuing to climb the corporate ladder but struggled to find a compelling argument to jump off it and train to become an airline pilot. What I can see is an increasingly competitive and tightly regulated market that is becoming more and more difficult to 1) break into and 2) feel well looked-after by your employer. Coupled with the ca. £100k cost of training over 1-2 years and the possibility that any health issue could render my career obsolete - I just couldn't bring myself to take the gamble. Obviously these are just my opinions based on reading posts here, observing the industry and researching the job market - which isn't the same as actually working in the industry. What I've said may not resonate with everyone - indeed I hope it doesn't, or we'd have no airline pilots left! Although maybe then, airlines would be forced to bring sponsorship schemes back
Anyway, at every opportunity I continued to rent aircraft from a few places:
- Leicester (which I have now stopped - PM if you're interested why)
- Bournemouth (Fly With Me Aviation - really good guy, hassle-free with no club overheads)
- Aeros Nottingham / Coventry (expensive but well equipped)
I've done some cool flying (albeit not as much as I'd have liked) - but kept myself current. I've crossed the channel a few times and visited some interesting places. Huge respect to Jersey for maintaining a lovely airport with friendly staff and great facilities, charging just £8 for a PA28 landing + overnight parking! I've done my Night Rating and a few hours of aerobatics, which were incredible. Can't wait to do more aeros!
After 4 years in London (or wherever the projects took me), I decided to make a change. I took a fancy to Berlin and moved there recently - I absolutely love it. If anyone knows how to go about renting aircraft in Germany, licence requirements, airfields in Berlin, any good contacts over there, etc. please give me a shout?
In terms of next steps with regards to flying, what I'd like to do is:
- First and foremost, continue flying. Whenever and wherever possible. It's still an uncomparably magic experience that I never want to let go.
- Build up hours and experience; aerobatics, perhaps IMC.
- I would like to instruct. Every time I take friends/family up, I find myself inadvertently teaching them the basics and they love it. I want to pass on the gift of flying and, now that PPL Instructor Ratings are possible, one day I would like to achieve that.
During this time, I've never stopped visiting PPRuNe (certainly a lot more often than I post). Massive thanks to the many posters, from whom I have gained more and more aviation knowledge on each visit. I will make a promise to myself to post more often from now on. I can't just keep taking
As always, please post your thoughts!
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2.
Why leave uni with 40 plus grand worth of debt? You could have a CPL/IR for that price.
Get flying and if it all goes south eg you loose your medical then go to Uni.
Why leave uni with 40 plus grand worth of debt? You could have a CPL/IR for that price.
Get flying and if it all goes south eg you loose your medical then go to Uni.
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Your path is proof for some flying is just an enjoyable past time, and rightly so, and for others it is something we can't go without.
However, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for not training as an airline pilot.
Why? Because it leaves a seat open for someone who really wants to be there, and keeps training costs down for he ones of us who need to make the investment. Thankyou.
However, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for not training as an airline pilot.
Why? Because it leaves a seat open for someone who really wants to be there, and keeps training costs down for he ones of us who need to make the investment. Thankyou.
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No cynicism, genuinely grateful. Means one less person for me to fight against for the first job 👍🏻. Totally agree though, at 28 I now know which side my breads buttered on. Doesnt necessarily make me a better pilot, however, it does make me roughly 100,000 times more determined than I would have been at 18.
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Where is there true success and happiness without risk?
Just the thought of the likely possibility of looking back at my life and thinking "what if I tried" makes my stomach turn a little!
I will try; if I succeed (happy with my job and life) then great. If I don't succeed or I end up being miserable as a pilot then very well, it was an expensive lesson. But I tried.
A lot of people, who originally were crazy about flying, decide to take the safe route and avoid aviation as a whole. I cannot bare the thought of spending the rest of my life working in an office 9-5, taking the same train everyday with the same miserable commuters, looking out of our one office window at the jet contrails and thinking "what if".
Just the thought of the likely possibility of looking back at my life and thinking "what if I tried" makes my stomach turn a little!
I will try; if I succeed (happy with my job and life) then great. If I don't succeed or I end up being miserable as a pilot then very well, it was an expensive lesson. But I tried.
A lot of people, who originally were crazy about flying, decide to take the safe route and avoid aviation as a whole. I cannot bare the thought of spending the rest of my life working in an office 9-5, taking the same train everyday with the same miserable commuters, looking out of our one office window at the jet contrails and thinking "what if".
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Jaair, I 100% agree with your opinion.
But, being on the other end of the equation, I'm looking at flight training as a very expensive lesson indeed!
I was desperate about flying, completed my training with flying colours and .. nadda really. I'm happy with my life, and found myself a lovely wife, but the amount of money I spent on flying sure would come in handy now that's we're saving up for a house! I don't regret it, but I do feel guilty about postponing my (wife's) life by at least another 5 years. Tough pill to swallow really
But, being on the other end of the equation, I'm looking at flight training as a very expensive lesson indeed!
I was desperate about flying, completed my training with flying colours and .. nadda really. I'm happy with my life, and found myself a lovely wife, but the amount of money I spent on flying sure would come in handy now that's we're saving up for a house! I don't regret it, but I do feel guilty about postponing my (wife's) life by at least another 5 years. Tough pill to swallow really
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May I just recommend that you, OP, think very hard before choosing aeronautical engineering as your major.
Try to think about a field that will give you a job, and a well paid one
Edit : posted too fast... Hope this advice will be useful to somebody else
Try to think about a field that will give you a job, and a well paid one
Edit : posted too fast... Hope this advice will be useful to somebody else
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Where is there true success and happiness without risk?
Just the thought of the likely possibility of looking back at my life and thinking "what if I tried" makes my stomach turn a little!
I will try; if I succeed (happy with my job and life) then great. If I don't succeed or I end up being miserable as a pilot then very well, it was an expensive lesson. But I tried.
A lot of people, who originally were crazy about flying, decide to take the safe route and avoid aviation as a whole. I cannot bare the thought of spending the rest of my life working in an office 9-5, taking the same train everyday with the same miserable commuters, looking out of our one office window at the jet contrails and thinking "what if".
Just the thought of the likely possibility of looking back at my life and thinking "what if I tried" makes my stomach turn a little!
I will try; if I succeed (happy with my job and life) then great. If I don't succeed or I end up being miserable as a pilot then very well, it was an expensive lesson. But I tried.
A lot of people, who originally were crazy about flying, decide to take the safe route and avoid aviation as a whole. I cannot bare the thought of spending the rest of my life working in an office 9-5, taking the same train everyday with the same miserable commuters, looking out of our one office window at the jet contrails and thinking "what if".
Also don't be so silly, people who are retired don't get happiness from reminiscing. Humans are too preoccupied by the present, they're focusing on their deteriorating health and try to focus on reaping what they sowed in terms of relationships and enjoying the fruits of their labour with regards to raising a family.