Should I continue?
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Should I continue?
Hello Chaps and Chapettes
Would you be so kind as to give my some advice. I'm 31, I've been chasing the dream of being a commercial pilot for years, but due to finances and setbacks its been a slow process. I'm not interested in the jets, more the props and corporate flying. I am currently on Bristol Groundschools distance learning course but haven't studied for a while due to personal issues and a new job. Also my PPL has lapsed 2 years ago so I need to do the skills test again. I have 160 hours and a night rating. I'm also in a bit of debt. Slightly higher than the norm.
Should I slowly continue with my training and follow my passion while still working at my reasonable paid job and get into further debt with a CPL/IR?
Or should I just quit and settle for where I am. (Which doesn't make me happy!)
All advice gratefully received.
Thank you
Would you be so kind as to give my some advice. I'm 31, I've been chasing the dream of being a commercial pilot for years, but due to finances and setbacks its been a slow process. I'm not interested in the jets, more the props and corporate flying. I am currently on Bristol Groundschools distance learning course but haven't studied for a while due to personal issues and a new job. Also my PPL has lapsed 2 years ago so I need to do the skills test again. I have 160 hours and a night rating. I'm also in a bit of debt. Slightly higher than the norm.
Should I slowly continue with my training and follow my passion while still working at my reasonable paid job and get into further debt with a CPL/IR?
Or should I just quit and settle for where I am. (Which doesn't make me happy!)
All advice gratefully received.
Thank you
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That really is a huge question. I guess only you in the end can decide on the answer.
I am kind of in a similar boat - been at it for 3 years, got my CPL/IR and hoping to have my FIC in coming months - but finding funding this last part a little tricky! I'm trying to fly as and when I've got the cash, but one of my cleared credit cards is just begging to have some debt put on it ;-) I'm trying to resist.
My advice, is if you do continue, to just take it slowly. Other threads in here suggest any of us would be very lucky to secure work, so by the time you finish up, you might just time it right. The next year or so could be tough, so I would not get in to massive debts for training.
Slowly, but surely sounds like a good plan, and a good pilot always keeps his/her options open, so don't over commit :-)
All the best whatever you decide to do
I am kind of in a similar boat - been at it for 3 years, got my CPL/IR and hoping to have my FIC in coming months - but finding funding this last part a little tricky! I'm trying to fly as and when I've got the cash, but one of my cleared credit cards is just begging to have some debt put on it ;-) I'm trying to resist.
My advice, is if you do continue, to just take it slowly. Other threads in here suggest any of us would be very lucky to secure work, so by the time you finish up, you might just time it right. The next year or so could be tough, so I would not get in to massive debts for training.
Slowly, but surely sounds like a good plan, and a good pilot always keeps his/her options open, so don't over commit :-)
All the best whatever you decide to do
Absolutely not. Stop. Give up for gods sake.
There is sod all chance of raising the funds and motivation to complete commercial training and even if you did a job would be a very long shot.
Flying is a disease. It destroys some people and ruins their lives. Some are lucky and either recover or conquer the beast and make a lot of money out of it. I suspect you will be in the former category if you are not careful.
Get an old motorbike or a horse or a small boat or something less expensive, less risky and more rewarding than a half hearted aviation ambition.
Seriously.
WWW
There is sod all chance of raising the funds and motivation to complete commercial training and even if you did a job would be a very long shot.
Flying is a disease. It destroys some people and ruins their lives. Some are lucky and either recover or conquer the beast and make a lot of money out of it. I suspect you will be in the former category if you are not careful.
Get an old motorbike or a horse or a small boat or something less expensive, less risky and more rewarding than a half hearted aviation ambition.
Seriously.
WWW
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Oooh that made me chuckle, nothing like sitting on the fence....
If your already in debt then get it paid off and start saving. Wait for the market to recover and see how you feel then. Getting in more debt now is crazy imho.
Phil
If your already in debt then get it paid off and start saving. Wait for the market to recover and see how you feel then. Getting in more debt now is crazy imho.
Phil
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If aviation is your passion and your still a little bit undecided I would complete the exams, get your CPL and FI rating and instruct part time, this should give you a huge degree of satisfaction and enjoyment. Now you will need to remember that ATPL exams will lapse after X amount of months if you don't do your IR so its in your own interest to get the IR before the certificates become invalid for any future opportunity or decisions otherwise its the whole lot again.
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I am in the same boat mate. Spent many £1000s to get to CPL/IR/MCC and not a chance of flying job. 
Now schools are telling me get FIC course, in other words "give us more money".
Flight instructors as I am sure everyone on this forum knows by now are on low incomes, and if weather conditions/economy are bad than no income at all.
Keep your PPL alive and fly couple of hours a year for enjoyment. Don't go into debts, i know this is extreme but had a mate who was ex-military pilot, spent all his money on license conversion, failed test and depression/debts made him take his life away.
As i said, this is extreme but can happen.
There are jobs in other industries where they will be happy to have you onboard, give you respect and pay you more money for less effort without having to have valid class 1 medical.
Once over 30, you are more likely to fail medicals, ageism is a big topic in airline industry too.
The best thing would be to get a flying horse.
Now schools are telling me get FIC course, in other words "give us more money".
Flight instructors as I am sure everyone on this forum knows by now are on low incomes, and if weather conditions/economy are bad than no income at all.
Keep your PPL alive and fly couple of hours a year for enjoyment. Don't go into debts, i know this is extreme but had a mate who was ex-military pilot, spent all his money on license conversion, failed test and depression/debts made him take his life away.
As i said, this is extreme but can happen.
There are jobs in other industries where they will be happy to have you onboard, give you respect and pay you more money for less effort without having to have valid class 1 medical.
Once over 30, you are more likely to fail medicals, ageism is a big topic in airline industry too.
The best thing would be to get a flying horse.
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Or do what I've done. Sell the motorbike and get a share in nice little 4 seater and fly anytime you want and only when you feel like it. Do the theory as and when, applying it to your leisure flying where applicable. Build up loads of P1 time, get a good "normal" job, keep one eye on the state of the industry, get to know people, make contacts, understand how pilot recruitment really works, start pushing out the boundaries of your flying, slow but safe progression without big bang financial risk. Just because you're not wearing a uniform and not flying heavy metal doesn't make you any less of a pilot. Do some glider towing maybe for a while. Progressively stir in the IR, the ME, the CPL...then one day you dream cake may well rise out of the cake tin!
Or perhaps part-time instruction?
Good luck anyway
)
Hi Mike,
It depends on your particular Passion for Flying vs Hatred of your Current Job ratio and on whether your personal financial situation allows you to continue chasing the dream.
WWW has a point about the state of the industry, but no matter what happens with the economy, there will always be jobs for those who work very hard to improve their CVs, make contacts and exploit every opportunity they come across.
Chasing the dream is better than living the nightmare.
It depends on your particular Passion for Flying vs Hatred of your Current Job ratio and on whether your personal financial situation allows you to continue chasing the dream.
WWW has a point about the state of the industry, but no matter what happens with the economy, there will always be jobs for those who work very hard to improve their CVs, make contacts and exploit every opportunity they come across.
Chasing the dream is better than living the nightmare.
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go on, have a go
mate, I'm 46, 180 hours, and currently trying to get good enough in a C206 for the CPL flight test. Struggling. So is a bloke who's a few years younger than me. All the young CPLs and instructors are scooting off to the regionals or cheap jets, or the younger instrucors are getting snapped up by the likes of Jetstar and Qantas. Good luck to 'em. I'm hoping for a CPL, a ride in the 206 with some backpackers into a little strip in the wilderness, and maybe an instructor rating if I can afford it down the track.
Hang in there. Who knows whats going to happen? Have a crack at what you love doing, but importantly, try and be debt free (or minimise debt) as you go. If that means a bit of weekend flying when you can afford it, so be it. Go get an aerobatic endorsement, that'll keep you happy!
Good luck and less crappy landings to us all.
Hang in there. Who knows whats going to happen? Have a crack at what you love doing, but importantly, try and be debt free (or minimise debt) as you go. If that means a bit of weekend flying when you can afford it, so be it. Go get an aerobatic endorsement, that'll keep you happy!
Good luck and less crappy landings to us all.
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Thanks for all your words of wisdom guys, its very interesting to hear everyones thoughts.
I think my main problem is listening to my heart and not my head!
I think my main problem is listening to my heart and not my head!
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
So you want to do air-taxi/corporate flying? The reality is that you are in debt, that you will incur further debt to get the blue book in hand and then will work for pittance whilst trying to get yourself into a position where the air taxi guys might consider employing you. Even then most corporate operators dont offer the greatest of salaries. Unless the market improves drastically (and oil becomes cheaper) over the coming years I would suggest keeping it as a hobby.
sr
sr
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Mike, are you able to take a sabbatical from your current job for a while? It might be that you cannot afford it, but if you can get round it one way or another without getting any further in debt, then a sabbatical may allow you to excercise your flying demons whilst keeping paid income in the background.
DO NOT say "
it" when you are having another ****ty day and wrap your hand in in favour of flying. Get the PPL current again, best thing you will ever do, and take colleagues / friends flying. They will be only too happy to get some cheap flying in and you can split the cost.
I went throgh exactly the same "crisis" as you at 31, I am now 32 going on 33 and 4 months into a sabbatical. PPL and night done with ATPL exams in a couple of weeks. I know for a fact that I will have to go back to my job and instruct at weekends etc for a year or two before hopefully making the break and getting a TP job. I love flying but I am starting to ask myself whether being an airline jockey is really flying or more systems and safety management?
Good Luck and whatever you do kill the debt first before it kills you!
DO NOT say "
it" when you are having another ****ty day and wrap your hand in in favour of flying. Get the PPL current again, best thing you will ever do, and take colleagues / friends flying. They will be only too happy to get some cheap flying in and you can split the cost.I went throgh exactly the same "crisis" as you at 31, I am now 32 going on 33 and 4 months into a sabbatical. PPL and night done with ATPL exams in a couple of weeks. I know for a fact that I will have to go back to my job and instruct at weekends etc for a year or two before hopefully making the break and getting a TP job. I love flying but I am starting to ask myself whether being an airline jockey is really flying or more systems and safety management?
Good Luck and whatever you do kill the debt first before it kills you!
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Absolutely not. Stop. Give up for gods sake.
There is sod all chance of raising the funds and motivation to complete commercial training and even if you did a job would be a very long shot.
Flying is a disease. It destroys some people and ruins their lives. Some are lucky and either recover or conquer the beast and make a lot of money out of it. I suspect you will be in the former category if you are not careful.
Get an old motorbike or a horse or a small boat or something less expensive, less risky and more rewarding than a half hearted aviation ambition.
Seriously.
WWW
There is sod all chance of raising the funds and motivation to complete commercial training and even if you did a job would be a very long shot.
Flying is a disease. It destroys some people and ruins their lives. Some are lucky and either recover or conquer the beast and make a lot of money out of it. I suspect you will be in the former category if you are not careful.
Get an old motorbike or a horse or a small boat or something less expensive, less risky and more rewarding than a half hearted aviation ambition.
Seriously.
WWW
My advice would be to keep going with it. No one can predict the future and who knows what opportnities lie out there.
If you do pack it in you will prob spend the rest of your life wondering what if?
WWW - do you ever have anything positive to say? about anything? ever?
"Flying is a disease and ruins peoples lives" - Perhaps you had an unfortunate experience and Im sorry for that. But thats no excuse to tell everyone they should not bother with flight training because it does work out for alot of people.
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It sounds like only your class rating has expired, and that your PPL may still be valid.
All you need to start the ATPL ground school is a valid ICAO PPL - nothing about a class rating mentioned!
All you need to start the ATPL ground school is a valid ICAO PPL - nothing about a class rating mentioned!
I will have to go back to my job and instruct at weekends etc for a year or two before hopefully making the break and getting a TP job
Mustflywillfly what happens if you never get to that position? You have to look at the worst case and say I will be a FI for the rest of my career. Will I be happy with that?
Unfortunately thats what it comes down to. Are you happy flying as an FI or do you want to only be a Airline Pilot. I would suggest that if its the latter and you've geared it all up to that then probably best to give it up and fly for fun.
I mean theres already another thread about a sad soul asking where to get an ATR job after speculating on a type rating and telling the world that he flew for free in the Dom Republic and that hes 37 years old and we now owe him a living. Thats the currenct reality and what people are up against if they continue.
Heed WWW comments. He offers sage advice
Mustflywillfly what happens if you never get to that position? You have to look at the worst case and say I will be a FI for the rest of my career. Will I be happy with that?
Unfortunately thats what it comes down to. Are you happy flying as an FI or do you want to only be a Airline Pilot. I would suggest that if its the latter and you've geared it all up to that then probably best to give it up and fly for fun.
I mean theres already another thread about a sad soul asking where to get an ATR job after speculating on a type rating and telling the world that he flew for free in the Dom Republic and that hes 37 years old and we now owe him a living. Thats the currenct reality and what people are up against if they continue.
Heed WWW comments. He offers sage advice
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Mike,
I know what your going through "been there, got the T-shirt etc".
I have read other peoples views on this thread and would like to add a further subject that you may have to consider if you continue.
It's more than likely that you may have to re-locate, even abroad, to get a good job with good money to justify the investment in yourself. You must ask yourself are you prepared to leave your friends/family/girlfriend/wife/partner etc ? To follow your dream?
If you have a good look on this forum, you will realise that the job ain't what it use to be. The pay now is very poor when you consider the lifestyle/responsibility/continuous training involved/medicals/ life expectancy (use to be 63 y.o).
I was listening to a petrol tank driver (on strike) on radio 4 that he was struggling on a basic of £35,000 plus OT which gave him £41000 per year. That's more than a Capt earns on a TP! look at www.ppjn.com .
I was offered a job last week at £55K outside aviation. Its not even a "profession" plus the lifestyle is "normal" and the management have a lot more respect for their employees than most airlines.
If I had to be honest about myself, I would not of undertook the training. I would of gone back to Uni and got myself a "profession". In fact I have given myself 6 months to get a job if unsuccessful I'm returning to University.
I have worked in aviation and have many pilot friends all of them say the best part of the job was actually doing the licence! Flying a SE and flying a A320 are completely different and to be honest very boring!
At the end of the day, your an Adult and have to make a your own decision.
Orvil
I know what your going through "been there, got the T-shirt etc".
I have read other peoples views on this thread and would like to add a further subject that you may have to consider if you continue.
It's more than likely that you may have to re-locate, even abroad, to get a good job with good money to justify the investment in yourself. You must ask yourself are you prepared to leave your friends/family/girlfriend/wife/partner etc ? To follow your dream?
If you have a good look on this forum, you will realise that the job ain't what it use to be. The pay now is very poor when you consider the lifestyle/responsibility/continuous training involved/medicals/ life expectancy (use to be 63 y.o).
I was listening to a petrol tank driver (on strike) on radio 4 that he was struggling on a basic of £35,000 plus OT which gave him £41000 per year. That's more than a Capt earns on a TP! look at www.ppjn.com .
I was offered a job last week at £55K outside aviation. Its not even a "profession" plus the lifestyle is "normal" and the management have a lot more respect for their employees than most airlines.
If I had to be honest about myself, I would not of undertook the training. I would of gone back to Uni and got myself a "profession". In fact I have given myself 6 months to get a job if unsuccessful I'm returning to University.
I have worked in aviation and have many pilot friends all of them say the best part of the job was actually doing the licence! Flying a SE and flying a A320 are completely different and to be honest very boring!
At the end of the day, your an Adult and have to make a your own decision.
Orvil
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In my humble opinion i advise such a decision can only be taken by what you want, not what you've been advised. If you want it and believe you can do it then you will suceed , no matter what some pissed up bloke says a few hundred mile away on the other end of a pc/laptop. Dont get built up with with hope on here or knocked down with a ****ty stick just go with your gut feeling. Do you believe in yourself? If yes just do it , concentrate on training and come on here for info NOT ADVICE. If no join the rest of people in knocking everyone else down and putting folk off....
Rant over and good luck
Rant over and good luck
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Trying to get others to make the decision for you is not the way to go.
The fact that you have posted here and the information you have supplied suggests that you have considerable doubts.
Follow your instinct not your heart - your heart may suggest you plug away at it and you rationalise a bad decision.
FWIW, I was in a similar position at 31 but decided to pursue another career with sufficient success that 20 years later I can afford without borrowing any money to become a part time pilot on my terms but continue with some bits of my other career on my terms as well.
This is really having the best of both worlds. The flying stays fun, the regular job stays fun and whatever happens with the economy I can ride it out flexing either way.
I have no aspiration to be hacking Vicky Pollard types around the sky going from one booze up to another, If I did, I would probably have been a bus or train driver. Its not my idea of a glamourous job. Lets face it who would want to have any contact with such passengers. A pile of freight has more charm.
The fact that you have posted here and the information you have supplied suggests that you have considerable doubts.
Follow your instinct not your heart - your heart may suggest you plug away at it and you rationalise a bad decision.
FWIW, I was in a similar position at 31 but decided to pursue another career with sufficient success that 20 years later I can afford without borrowing any money to become a part time pilot on my terms but continue with some bits of my other career on my terms as well.
This is really having the best of both worlds. The flying stays fun, the regular job stays fun and whatever happens with the economy I can ride it out flexing either way.
I have no aspiration to be hacking Vicky Pollard types around the sky going from one booze up to another, If I did, I would probably have been a bus or train driver. Its not my idea of a glamourous job. Lets face it who would want to have any contact with such passengers. A pile of freight has more charm.