18 years old, off to university this year and wants to be a airline pilot
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I think the main question that needs to be asked, is how badly do you want to be a pilot? If you know that nothing else is for you, then go for it now. Like people have already said, if you go to uni and then study in your spare time as you gradually get money together you could not be getting your license until your 25/26, then you have to get a job with an airline.
This could perhaps be another few years, by which time you've already "wasted" dare I say 8 years of your life doing something you don't really want to do! There's always going to be risks in whatever you do, life would be boring taking the safe route all the time!
Good luck in your future!
This could perhaps be another few years, by which time you've already "wasted" dare I say 8 years of your life doing something you don't really want to do! There's always going to be risks in whatever you do, life would be boring taking the safe route all the time!
Good luck in your future!
Think if another 9/11 happens. What then? The pilots who are laid off need to find a job to support themselves.
Yep, easier and less painful if you are 25 than if you are 30 - so train now and don't waster 5 years gaining a certificate for the downstairs toilet.
If you have a degree that was taken 20 years ago it will always get you a better job then plain A-levels. It doesn't matter how long ago it was.
You hold a basuic degree in computer science taken 6 years ago - you really think that's going to wow the potential employers?
Do you not go to Hospital and see 50 year old doctors practicing medicine?
WWW can't see 40+ doctors because their degree is covered in dust???
Everyone knows having a degree does no harm.
Umm, a medical degree takes 8 years and I don't think is really relevant to this.
I bet the life experience you gain from the 3 years at uni is a lot better than the experience you get working at Tesco. Any degree helps a pilot. Just like you said, pilots need to know a little bit of everything.
Just saying my opinion.
I bet the life experience you gain as an undergraduate DOESN'T give you half as good or relevant life experience as working full time in Tesco stacking shelves, then maning checkout, then becoming checkout supervisor then getting selected for deputy shift manager.. Hell of a lot more to talk about at interview than wittering on about getting your dissertation in on time and being Captain of the Geology Dept drinking squad.
My advice stands. Uni is a waste of time (3 years) and money (£15k) if you have no intention of using the piece of paper at the end of it.
I think at least half the people at University in the UK should not be there.
WWW
Yep, easier and less painful if you are 25 than if you are 30 - so train now and don't waster 5 years gaining a certificate for the downstairs toilet.
If you have a degree that was taken 20 years ago it will always get you a better job then plain A-levels. It doesn't matter how long ago it was.
You hold a basuic degree in computer science taken 6 years ago - you really think that's going to wow the potential employers?
Do you not go to Hospital and see 50 year old doctors practicing medicine?
WWW can't see 40+ doctors because their degree is covered in dust???
Everyone knows having a degree does no harm.
Umm, a medical degree takes 8 years and I don't think is really relevant to this.
I bet the life experience you gain from the 3 years at uni is a lot better than the experience you get working at Tesco. Any degree helps a pilot. Just like you said, pilots need to know a little bit of everything.
Just saying my opinion.
I bet the life experience you gain as an undergraduate DOESN'T give you half as good or relevant life experience as working full time in Tesco stacking shelves, then maning checkout, then becoming checkout supervisor then getting selected for deputy shift manager.. Hell of a lot more to talk about at interview than wittering on about getting your dissertation in on time and being Captain of the Geology Dept drinking squad.
My advice stands. Uni is a waste of time (3 years) and money (£15k) if you have no intention of using the piece of paper at the end of it.
I think at least half the people at University in the UK should not be there.
WWW
Hovering AND talking
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WWW, did you go to university? 
I'm just detecting a little axe-grinding there!!
BTW, a medical degree takes 5 years; two years less than a veterinary degree!
Cheers
Whirls
I'm just detecting a little axe-grinding there!!BTW, a medical degree takes 5 years; two years less than a veterinary degree!
Cheers
Whirls
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There is no 100 percent safe route. So when you get a degree don't think your absolutely safe. Of course anything is safer than the aviation industry. Like one said, the future of aviation is the next 30 seconds. No one can predict what is going to happen.
Let's say you do 'waste' the 8 years of your life. You get a job for an airline. A few years later a whole bunch of pilots including yourself get laid off. You will get a job with a good salary and continue with the plans you had for your family. Your colleagues that did not 'waste' years of their life have to go job hunting. When they do get a job they realize that their plans for their family have to be changed because of the loss of benefits and salary. Forget that new house, new car, good life you had when you were a pilot it's all over if you 'wasted' your time.
So now I ask you, do you think that was a 'waste' of time???
Or was it logical thinking and not listening to the biased FTOs?
Let's say you do 'waste' the 8 years of your life. You get a job for an airline. A few years later a whole bunch of pilots including yourself get laid off. You will get a job with a good salary and continue with the plans you had for your family. Your colleagues that did not 'waste' years of their life have to go job hunting. When they do get a job they realize that their plans for their family have to be changed because of the loss of benefits and salary. Forget that new house, new car, good life you had when you were a pilot it's all over if you 'wasted' your time.
So now I ask you, do you think that was a 'waste' of time???
Or was it logical thinking and not listening to the biased FTOs?
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This whole arguement is just going round and round in circles... Most people are biased, based on their own experiences.
Pt - you could also live your life as a pilot for the rest of your career only wishing you didn't waste your first 10 years in yet further education which is now somewhat useless.
Fact is whatever you go into there's risks, any career could end in tears. Let's say another incident is to occur and the industry plummits. Surely the additional time you spent flying was worth it? afterall it's what you wanted to do all your life, and you enjoyed every minute of it.
Yes, I am biased towards WWW's point of view. I spent months deciding what to do with my future, and I came to the conclusion that I want to spend my life in aviation not some desk job staring at a screen 9-5, 5 days a week. Why study for a job you don't even want to do?
Pt - you could also live your life as a pilot for the rest of your career only wishing you didn't waste your first 10 years in yet further education which is now somewhat useless.
Fact is whatever you go into there's risks, any career could end in tears. Let's say another incident is to occur and the industry plummits. Surely the additional time you spent flying was worth it? afterall it's what you wanted to do all your life, and you enjoyed every minute of it.
Yes, I am biased towards WWW's point of view. I spent months deciding what to do with my future, and I came to the conclusion that I want to spend my life in aviation not some desk job staring at a screen 9-5, 5 days a week. Why study for a job you don't even want to do?
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Exhibitz I do agree with you in one point. I also do not want to spend the rest of my life sitting in front of a computer from 9-5.
Everyone here loves to fly, some of us want to reach in different ways. This is very similar to the modular-integrated discussion which never stops. Only Ric can actually know what he wants. If he wants to skip the degree great for him, it's his choice. At the end of the road we will all end up flying.
Exhibitz - if I was you in the final phase of an entry to a sponsored program I would also not do the degree. I have not applied to CTC because I am afraid they will reject me before I have my degree and never get a chance to show my abilities again. After having my degree I think I will have a larger possibility to get accepted into CTC, and I know if I am rejected I had the best education possible.
Everyone here loves to fly, some of us want to reach in different ways. This is very similar to the modular-integrated discussion which never stops. Only Ric can actually know what he wants. If he wants to skip the degree great for him, it's his choice. At the end of the road we will all end up flying.
Exhibitz - if I was you in the final phase of an entry to a sponsored program I would also not do the degree. I have not applied to CTC because I am afraid they will reject me before I have my degree and never get a chance to show my abilities again. After having my degree I think I will have a larger possibility to get accepted into CTC, and I know if I am rejected I had the best education possible.
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Why study for a job you don't even want to do?
Fact is whatever you go into there's risks, any career could end in tears.
However, I started work as a nuclear physicist (my degree) and later became a Chartered Accountant and now working for a commercial helicopter qualification.
If I'd had the foresight to know what I REALLY wanted to do at 18, I'd have joined the RAF instead of doing a degree in Theoretical Physics! But I didn't and I thank myself and my parents that I got a degree which did, in effect, open the doors for the second qualification which also, through income, opened the door to the third!
However, it IS a matter of individual choice and we can all pontificate to our heart's content but, ultimately, it has to be the OP's decision which I hope to Dear Lawd he doesn't make just based on some of the drivel written on here but on what he feels is right otherwise, if our hero thinks in the future that the decision is wrong, he will blame others resulting in a self-destructive emotion.
If one makes a decision which one believes to be the best at the time with one's own convictions, then any regrets are usually short-lived.
Cheers
Whirls
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why don't you do both at the same time??? I'm doing modular flight training in local FTO and college -Aircraft Maintenance-(bachelor prog-3y). Afther I get CPL IR ME MCC(for a year) I'll start sending job application.
--can someone please explain me education system in U.K.
is there something like tehnical high schools(Aviation and Tehnical, Ele., Medical...) or just normal high school like every other???
--can someone please explain me education system in U.K.
is there something like tehnical high schools(Aviation and Tehnical, Ele., Medical...) or just normal high school like every other???
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There are several courses that integrate a degree alongside commercial pilot training, myself being most familiar with the BCUC and Cabair course.
This allows you to study for a BA(Hons) Degree in Air Transport, while in the first year completing your PPL, and in the second and third years completing all training and exams for your ATPL and then CPL, i believe that there is another thread in this section discussing this course.
This allows you to study for a BA(Hons) Degree in Air Transport, while in the first year completing your PPL, and in the second and third years completing all training and exams for your ATPL and then CPL, i believe that there is another thread in this section discussing this course.
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A degree as a backup is only useful if you fail/lose medical close to finishing. A 15 year old degree in computers is going to do nothing for you. 15 years of work in the comp industry using that degree yes. The plain un-used degree no.
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I was in the same position as you last year. I decided to go to University and study Business and Management for 4 years, I thought it would be a good "general" degree to have that would help me if things went wrong with my flying career e.g. losing my medical.
I actually left Uni. at the end of my first term because I couldn't understand why I was there and the prospect of spending close to £30,000 (much more realistic figure) on a degree which I didn't even want to use seemed pointless. Every lecture seemed a waste of my time and I didn't enjoy any of the subjects, it was irrelevant to what I want to do with my life.
My parents paid for me to take my Class One Medical before I left because they didn't want to see me leaving uni. and then fail to get one. I'm currently applying for integrated courses and although it's the more expensive route, by not going to uni. I'll be reducing my debt by £30,000. With regards to working before training, I would rather take out a large loan and then pay it off by actually having a job as a pilot rather than working in Tesco's and stacking shelves for 4 years before hand.
Doing a degree is a good option to fall back on but you can take a degree when ever you like, on my course there were around 5 mature students. If I were to lose my medical at say 30 I would rather have missed uni. and have been flying for 10 years instead of having gone to uni., then worked and then have only been flying for 3 years. Loss of medical insurance after 10 years should more than cover the costs of re-training or taking a uni. degree. Also as it has already been stated there are several options available where you can take a degree course along side your pilots training, for example at Oxford part of the course is a foundation degree in Air Transport Management.
Uni. was great fun and it was difficult to leave Birmingham and the people behind but I knew that I was making the right decision. Before I went to uni. I was having doubts whether it was the right decision, my parents knew I wanted to do my training but said I should try uni. and see what I thought of the degree. Having done that they accepted my decision to leave and have said they'll support me in my training.
It sounds cheesy but if you want to be a pilot then you just need to go for it.
I actually left Uni. at the end of my first term because I couldn't understand why I was there and the prospect of spending close to £30,000 (much more realistic figure) on a degree which I didn't even want to use seemed pointless. Every lecture seemed a waste of my time and I didn't enjoy any of the subjects, it was irrelevant to what I want to do with my life.
My parents paid for me to take my Class One Medical before I left because they didn't want to see me leaving uni. and then fail to get one. I'm currently applying for integrated courses and although it's the more expensive route, by not going to uni. I'll be reducing my debt by £30,000. With regards to working before training, I would rather take out a large loan and then pay it off by actually having a job as a pilot rather than working in Tesco's and stacking shelves for 4 years before hand.
Doing a degree is a good option to fall back on but you can take a degree when ever you like, on my course there were around 5 mature students. If I were to lose my medical at say 30 I would rather have missed uni. and have been flying for 10 years instead of having gone to uni., then worked and then have only been flying for 3 years. Loss of medical insurance after 10 years should more than cover the costs of re-training or taking a uni. degree. Also as it has already been stated there are several options available where you can take a degree course along side your pilots training, for example at Oxford part of the course is a foundation degree in Air Transport Management.
Uni. was great fun and it was difficult to leave Birmingham and the people behind but I knew that I was making the right decision. Before I went to uni. I was having doubts whether it was the right decision, my parents knew I wanted to do my training but said I should try uni. and see what I thought of the degree. Having done that they accepted my decision to leave and have said they'll support me in my training.
It sounds cheesy but if you want to be a pilot then you just need to go for it.
Last edited by Joffyh; 15th Jan 2008 at 12:15.
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Doing Business Management Degree, I don't blame you for leaving.
Though I am shocked on the figure of £30K of debt, not exactly sure were you got that from.
4 x £3,000 - £12,000 (Tuition)
Then your telling me your gonna spend £18,000 on accommodation for 4 years? The cost of living at uni isn't that much even if you went out every night.
Anyhow back on topic, as I said....do research, go to unis, go to FTO's decide what is best for you and work hard, sure you will end up finding your way.
Though I am shocked on the figure of £30K of debt, not exactly sure were you got that from.
4 x £3,000 - £12,000 (Tuition)
Then your telling me your gonna spend £18,000 on accommodation for 4 years? The cost of living at uni isn't that much even if you went out every night.
Anyhow back on topic, as I said....do research, go to unis, go to FTO's decide what is best for you and work hard, sure you will end up finding your way.
Whirlygig - no axe to grind here. I did a joint honours degree at a red brick University in England and went on to use that degree in employment for several years post graduation so it paid for itself. Not to mention the three years of parties, UAS flying, girls, booze, crashing cars, stealing sheep... all the usual stuff.
But £12k in tuition fees, £9k in living costs and three years of your 77 on this planet is a Very Poor choice to attain something you might only use as a back up plan...
WWW
But £12k in tuition fees, £9k in living costs and three years of your 77 on this planet is a Very Poor choice to attain something you might only use as a back up plan...
WWW
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Though I am shocked on the figure of £30K of debt, not exactly sure were you got that from.
3 x tuition fees = £9,000
10 x £200 pm accomodation = £2,000pa or £6,000 for Total
Food/Bills = ?
Student life = ?
Total of £20k would be more like it. And that's if you live away, live at home and you'll have a degree for under £10k.
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For all those who say they don'y want to sit staring at a computer screen all day.................... What do you think your life as a professional pilot will be? Exactly that! And you don't get to flirt with the girls in the office
Although the view out of my window is a hell of a lot better
Although the view out of my window is a hell of a lot better
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GB - We're talking about the UK. In europe a medical degree always takes 5 years (excluding internship). But who would want to be a doctor before becoming a pilot. That would be stupid, you're just wasting 5 years. A degree only takes 3 years. I agree using 3 years of your life for a degree, but not 5!!!
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Hi,
My advice would be to go to university. You can't get the same experience through the Open University, and besides, if you went to uni for the sole purpose of getting a degree it would be pretty boring.
I studied Physics at Leeds, which besides being a subject that's already interesting to me is a safety net in case the whole flying thing doesn't work out for one reason or another. I wouldn't want to work in aviation if I wasn't able to fly. ;-)
On top of that, you will have to learn to manage your own affairs, resolve disputes, work with people you can't stand, and expand your horizons in a way you can't really do anywhere else. I'm acutely aware that I need to find a job at the end of the course, and so many people seem to be under the belief that the banner of their training establishment will let them sail straight into the right hand seat, despite what the more knowledgeable people here keep pointing out. If my uni experience helps in the slightest, it'll be worth it.
Pragmatically, student debt is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things, and if you change your mind after six months and drop out, it's probably a damn sight cheaper than pulling out of an integrated course and then going to uni!!
My advice would be to go to university. You can't get the same experience through the Open University, and besides, if you went to uni for the sole purpose of getting a degree it would be pretty boring.
I studied Physics at Leeds, which besides being a subject that's already interesting to me is a safety net in case the whole flying thing doesn't work out for one reason or another. I wouldn't want to work in aviation if I wasn't able to fly. ;-)
On top of that, you will have to learn to manage your own affairs, resolve disputes, work with people you can't stand, and expand your horizons in a way you can't really do anywhere else. I'm acutely aware that I need to find a job at the end of the course, and so many people seem to be under the belief that the banner of their training establishment will let them sail straight into the right hand seat, despite what the more knowledgeable people here keep pointing out. If my uni experience helps in the slightest, it'll be worth it.
Pragmatically, student debt is neither here nor there in the big scheme of things, and if you change your mind after six months and drop out, it's probably a damn sight cheaper than pulling out of an integrated course and then going to uni!!
Last edited by David Horn; 15th Jan 2008 at 18:24.
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rleungz - at your age do you really believe that there are sufficient supplies of cheap oil for an aviation career to last 40 years? There simply isn't.
With the fantastic expense of flight training it will be many, many years before your investment begins to pays off and aviation is entirely dependent on cheap oil.
Go get a degree as a backup - you'll need it. You won't have the opportunity to do so later on - family & other financial commitments will get in the way. And make sure it's a useful degree like engineering, business, medicine, law or computing (as you say). And avoid any aviation-related degree - that will be a waste of time in your pilot goals and will put all your eggs in one basket.
Like financial advise, career diversification is the key to reducing risk.
With the fantastic expense of flight training it will be many, many years before your investment begins to pays off and aviation is entirely dependent on cheap oil.
Go get a degree as a backup - you'll need it. You won't have the opportunity to do so later on - family & other financial commitments will get in the way. And make sure it's a useful degree like engineering, business, medicine, law or computing (as you say). And avoid any aviation-related degree - that will be a waste of time in your pilot goals and will put all your eggs in one basket.
Like financial advise, career diversification is the key to reducing risk.
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I hope I havnt p***ed off the world of PPRUNE over my question.
Well, for me not go to university would be an option I'll probably wo't take due to the fact its one of my goals to go to University and get a degree in the end.
I'm not going to University just because I want to go into a job in ICT at the end. I want to go because the subject of Computing and Management is something I'm really interested in and University Life is something I've been wanting to do since I was in Primary School (I also wanted to be fireman Sam too). So University is defo for me
On the other hand, I want to be a airline pilot and since 9/11 it has been harder to actually get training. I've had a long nice chat with my parents and I'd told them what I thought and they didn't like the option of me not going to University. They said get your degree first and work for acouple of years because the market of ICT is growing and be a good investment. Your degree will probably land you in a high paid job and you can take flying lessons along side your career at the weekends or days off and when it comes down to the big boys, ATPL and Type Rating you can leave your job and work on them.
I personally I need to concentrate on getting my degree and if I can get my Scholarship that be brillant.
My future action plan (18 year old making an action plan WHAT!!!)
Finish College
Go to University
Finish University
Get a Job
PPL (while still in job)
CPL (while still in job)
(F)ATPL (hard studying-jobless)
Type Rating (hard studying-jobless)
Search for an airline job age 23/24/25/27/28/29/30?
If anyone tell me how good or bad my basic plan is?
Ric
Well, for me not go to university would be an option I'll probably wo't take due to the fact its one of my goals to go to University and get a degree in the end.
I'm not going to University just because I want to go into a job in ICT at the end. I want to go because the subject of Computing and Management is something I'm really interested in and University Life is something I've been wanting to do since I was in Primary School (I also wanted to be fireman Sam too). So University is defo for me
On the other hand, I want to be a airline pilot and since 9/11 it has been harder to actually get training. I've had a long nice chat with my parents and I'd told them what I thought and they didn't like the option of me not going to University. They said get your degree first and work for acouple of years because the market of ICT is growing and be a good investment. Your degree will probably land you in a high paid job and you can take flying lessons along side your career at the weekends or days off and when it comes down to the big boys, ATPL and Type Rating you can leave your job and work on them.
I personally I need to concentrate on getting my degree and if I can get my Scholarship that be brillant.
My future action plan (18 year old making an action plan WHAT!!!)
Finish College
Go to University
Finish University
Get a Job
PPL (while still in job)
CPL (while still in job)
(F)ATPL (hard studying-jobless)
Type Rating (hard studying-jobless)
Search for an airline job age 23/24/25/27/28/29/30?
If anyone tell me how good or bad my basic plan is?
Ric
