Type Rating - B737
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min 100hrs under JAR, unless you've flown similar types
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RE: The Astraeus course and Ryanair, I too heard of a person doing a Astreaus type rating, then getting taken on by FR and having to do the initial type rating all over again. Apparently they were told they had not got enough JAR 25. I think only ball park 100 hours they had.
If he/she does badly in the sim in EMA, they won't be taken on.
MK
If he/she does badly in the sim in EMA, they won't be taken on.
MK
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Been at FR for a number of years and not heard any rumours like this, but I am aware of a person that did the initial ground school and sim but not the base training, so really had'nt completed the "type rating"to a level it could be endorsed on the license, they started again from scratch.
As far as I am aware, the amount of JAR type 25, i.e multi pilot types does not effect the type rating process , infact, if it was your first multi-pilot type you would have no JAR 25! But obviously it;s easier to do the sim if you are used to being in a multi crew environment, if not do a JOC first.
Obviously if you are prepared to pay for another type rating on the basis you get a job... well that's a whole different scenario.
Pays to read between the lines.
If you have solid experience on Jar 25 types, like 1500 heavy turbo prop then you buy a rating, you stand a reasonable chance "independently self typing" if you don't have this level of experience it may be worth attaching yourself to a company that can guarantee a job at the end of the process, assuming you get through selection in the first place.
As far as I am aware, the amount of JAR type 25, i.e multi pilot types does not effect the type rating process , infact, if it was your first multi-pilot type you would have no JAR 25! But obviously it;s easier to do the sim if you are used to being in a multi crew environment, if not do a JOC first.
Obviously if you are prepared to pay for another type rating on the basis you get a job... well that's a whole different scenario.
Pays to read between the lines.
If you have solid experience on Jar 25 types, like 1500 heavy turbo prop then you buy a rating, you stand a reasonable chance "independently self typing" if you don't have this level of experience it may be worth attaching yourself to a company that can guarantee a job at the end of the process, assuming you get through selection in the first place.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Hi all !
I almost agree with all you guys, I was thinking about a Type rating too ,
I must write my experience is" limited " 700h tt of bush flight turbine on c208,
the question is adressed to "justinabeavor"or to anyone that did a type rating.
I believe you when you say that almost all the pilot in your course had a job after the rating, as I believe the 90 % of pilot that do that get a job, but I am wandering now what is their employment story, total time ecc, as far as I can understand many companyes asked you the type r. but before they want the 1000 or 1500 h, than you are asked for a type rating,
So I told to myself not to start a type rating course, since after that with 700h tt, I would not have any chance, or very little chances to get a job.......want was you experience and the other guys experience before doing the course?
well I appreciate any suggestions and comments, it is two year I am looking for a job and now I am considering the type rating one more time as one of the last chances.....
Thanks to all!
LE.
I almost agree with all you guys, I was thinking about a Type rating too ,
I must write my experience is" limited " 700h tt of bush flight turbine on c208,
the question is adressed to "justinabeavor"or to anyone that did a type rating.
I believe you when you say that almost all the pilot in your course had a job after the rating, as I believe the 90 % of pilot that do that get a job, but I am wandering now what is their employment story, total time ecc, as far as I can understand many companyes asked you the type r. but before they want the 1000 or 1500 h, than you are asked for a type rating,
So I told to myself not to start a type rating course, since after that with 700h tt, I would not have any chance, or very little chances to get a job.......want was you experience and the other guys experience before doing the course?
well I appreciate any suggestions and comments, it is two year I am looking for a job and now I am considering the type rating one more time as one of the last chances.....
Thanks to all!
LE.
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lovis9
I can't tell you the experience of all the people on the course, however, the three guys that went to SkyEurope were all very low hours , bewteen 250 and 400 TT. Two have since come back after getting about 500hrs 737 and now work in the UK.
I would say that over half the course had more than 1500hrs multi pilot time, ex Dash8, ATR, Fokker etc.
Two guys went to Ryanair, both were about 200 hrs TT, but I hear things have changed a bit in the last year and unless you are doing the type rating with them, they want more JAR 25 time.
There were about four Captains on the course from prop fleets that since have gone onto the 737 as Direct entry commands.
Hope this helps. don't talk yourself out of a job, you have as much chance as anyone.
I can't tell you the experience of all the people on the course, however, the three guys that went to SkyEurope were all very low hours , bewteen 250 and 400 TT. Two have since come back after getting about 500hrs 737 and now work in the UK.
I would say that over half the course had more than 1500hrs multi pilot time, ex Dash8, ATR, Fokker etc.
Two guys went to Ryanair, both were about 200 hrs TT, but I hear things have changed a bit in the last year and unless you are doing the type rating with them, they want more JAR 25 time.
There were about four Captains on the course from prop fleets that since have gone onto the 737 as Direct entry commands.
Hope this helps. don't talk yourself out of a job, you have as much chance as anyone.
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Thank you very much!
well I ll think about that, I onestly was thinking that without 1500 there would not be any jobs with a type rating, but I believe you there were many people with less total time in your course,
I am from Italy and here i would say the a320 is much well developed than a 737 but I prefer the 737 and I would be happy to work all over europe, I think that work with ryanair is as difficoult as is one of the best chances!
Thanks man!
Lovi.
well I ll think about that, I onestly was thinking that without 1500 there would not be any jobs with a type rating, but I believe you there were many people with less total time in your course,
I am from Italy and here i would say the a320 is much well developed than a 737 but I prefer the 737 and I would be happy to work all over europe, I think that work with ryanair is as difficoult as is one of the best chances!
Thanks man!
Lovi.
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737 rated pilots should have a minimum of 100 hours on type.
Rank Type Hours Requirement Link
Captain B737 500+ hrs in command on type
Medium Jet 500+ hrs in command on type
First Officer B737 100+ hrs on type
JAR 25 aircraft 1,500 hrs on a JAR 25 aircraft
Cadet Fixed Wing 200 hrs
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...eers&ref=10002
Rank Type Hours Requirement Link
Captain B737 500+ hrs in command on type
Medium Jet 500+ hrs in command on type
First Officer B737 100+ hrs on type
JAR 25 aircraft 1,500 hrs on a JAR 25 aircraft
Cadet Fixed Wing 200 hrs
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...eers&ref=10002
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FR and TR+100
Thanks Jetavia
I must have been temporarily blind because I went back to Fr's site and found the info.
I have 700h TT and 42 years
. Do I stand a better chance (if any) applying at TR+100 level or as a low timer @ FR?
Thanks
I must have been temporarily blind because I went back to Fr's site and found the info.
I have 700h TT and 42 years
. Do I stand a better chance (if any) applying at TR+100 level or as a low timer @ FR?Thanks
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Type Rating - B737
Does anybody know if a B737 Type Rating can be done completely in the sim without having to do take-offs and landings in the aircraft? I believe there are zero flight time simulators which would be recognised by various govt.authorities.
If all sim training is posible it will certainly keep the cost down for obtaining the rating.
If all sim training is posible it will certainly keep the cost down for obtaining the rating.
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
I believe the ZFT 'base check' simulator session is only acceptable for a new rating when changing variant of an aircraft you currently have a rating for. eg 737 classic to 737 NG.
of course, I could be wrong.
of course, I could be wrong.
Re: B737 Type Rating.
I note thay you are from Australia so therefore either of the Qantas or Alteon 737 NG sims in Melbourne and Brisbane respectively are capable of providing this full type rating, without needing to do circuits in the actual aircraft. Having said that though, doing them in the aircraft would be bloody fun if it weren't for the fact that you were probably paying for them
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
ZFT in the UK is only available to pilots who have certain minimum hours on a similar class of aircraft (eg B737/A320 etc). I believe the figure is somewhere between 1000-2000hrs.
So Flyingsand - not correct. I converted onto the B737 in a ZFT sim, without needing base training, and only 2500hrs on the A320.
BA/bmi/EZ/many other UK jet operators all have ZFT-capable sims, yet they still carry out base training details - why else would they, unless they had to in certain cases?
Also goes some way to explaining min hours reqt for companies like Virgin/BA Longhaul - think how much base training in a 777 would cost!
So Flyingsand - not correct. I converted onto the B737 in a ZFT sim, without needing base training, and only 2500hrs on the A320.
BA/bmi/EZ/many other UK jet operators all have ZFT-capable sims, yet they still carry out base training details - why else would they, unless they had to in certain cases?
Also goes some way to explaining min hours reqt for companies like Virgin/BA Longhaul - think how much base training in a 777 would cost!
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
Actually, Virgin does do base training on both the B744 and the A340, mainly because the landings requirement post-ZFT simulator training is bloody difficult to achieve on a longhaul operation. We don't always do it, and the 744, thanks to a number of 2-sector days in the programme, does it less than the A340, but we do bash the circuit from time to time, as observers at Shannon, Prestwick, Castle Donington, Brize Norton and Chateuroux will confirm.
Our hours requirement is simply down to the fact that a purely longhaul operation is no place to be learning your trade; you need to do that before you come to us.
Scroggs
Our hours requirement is simply down to the fact that a purely longhaul operation is no place to be learning your trade; you need to do that before you come to us.
Scroggs
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
300ER,
It all depends on which licence you want to put it on. JARs require experience as detailed in another post. As you're from OZ, I happen to know that CASA will put it on your Aussie licence without Base Training. However, I'm not sure what their conditions are - I just know that some friends had done the A320 rating this way, but all were fairly experienced pilots.
For safety sake before you part with hard-earned cash, talk to your local CAA and see what their requirements are. There's usually a requirement to fly the actual aircraft fairly soon after a ZFT rating - something around 2 to 3 weeks I think, in the JAA system.
Also ensure BEFORE you start any type rating training that your authority will accept that TRTO (Type Tating Training Organisation) for YOU. It's often not enough to know that the TRTO is approved by your CAA, it usually has to be specifically approved for each pilot or company as does the sim on which it's being done.
The whole area can be a minefield so it's best to tread cautiously and ensure you have all the approvals needed before parting with your cash. If you're thinking of doing the B737 rating look at PARC in Ireland - they advertise on Pprune - as they use only very experienced TREs who are current on the aircraft and will give you a lot more training than just the bare rating. They also have a 100% placement rate for their graduates. The cheapest ones are usually in the USA but cheapest is often not best.
Good luck with it - it's not easy!
It all depends on which licence you want to put it on. JARs require experience as detailed in another post. As you're from OZ, I happen to know that CASA will put it on your Aussie licence without Base Training. However, I'm not sure what their conditions are - I just know that some friends had done the A320 rating this way, but all were fairly experienced pilots.
For safety sake before you part with hard-earned cash, talk to your local CAA and see what their requirements are. There's usually a requirement to fly the actual aircraft fairly soon after a ZFT rating - something around 2 to 3 weeks I think, in the JAA system.
Also ensure BEFORE you start any type rating training that your authority will accept that TRTO (Type Tating Training Organisation) for YOU. It's often not enough to know that the TRTO is approved by your CAA, it usually has to be specifically approved for each pilot or company as does the sim on which it's being done.
The whole area can be a minefield so it's best to tread cautiously and ensure you have all the approvals needed before parting with your cash. If you're thinking of doing the B737 rating look at PARC in Ireland - they advertise on Pprune - as they use only very experienced TREs who are current on the aircraft and will give you a lot more training than just the bare rating. They also have a 100% placement rate for their graduates. The cheapest ones are usually in the USA but cheapest is often not best.
Good luck with it - it's not easy!
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
Thanks scroggs - didn't realise that was so. I have mates who have been told by BA that ZFT considerations were a factor when applying for LH fleets - but I suspect your comments are at least as significant in that case too.
GL
GL
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
FOR FAA B737, B757/767 A320 TYPE RATINGS BOND AVIATION IS APPROVED FOR ALL TRAINING TO BE DONE IN THE SIMULATOR NO BOUNCES REQUIRED IN THE AIRCRAFT WWW.BONDAVIATIONSERVICES.COM
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Re: B737 Type Rating.
My experience of BA is that we don't do base training on our longhaul aircraft as the pilots that join us directly to fly them have already met the "minimum hours in a similar class of aircraft" requirement.
All our sims are ZFT, however we do recruit pilots onto the shorthaul fleets (Airbus, B737 and B757) that are required to go off and do the base training to meet CAA requirements.
The only recent exception was Concorde which was not a ZFT sim and thus required circuits and bumps to complete the type rating. Try paying that fuel bill.....
SR
All our sims are ZFT, however we do recruit pilots onto the shorthaul fleets (Airbus, B737 and B757) that are required to go off and do the base training to meet CAA requirements.
The only recent exception was Concorde which was not a ZFT sim and thus required circuits and bumps to complete the type rating. Try paying that fuel bill.....
SR
Re: B737 Type Rating.
Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.261(c)(2)
Approval of Aeroplane Zero Flight Time Type Rating Training Courses
1 APPROVAL OF ZERO FLIGHT TIME TRAINING (ZFTT)
For approval of a type rating course using ZFTT the following criteria will apply:
(a) The flight simulator to be used shall be qualified in accordance with JAR–STD and user approved by the Authority. User approval will only be given if the flight simulator is representative of the aeroplane flown by the operator.
(b) The flight simulator shall be fully serviceable during ZFTT (see JAR–STD).
(c) Additional take-off and landing exercises shall be included in the type rating course and at least six take-offs and landings shall be conducted under the instruction of a TRI(A).
(d) For an initial approval to conduct ZFTT an operator shall have held a JAR–OPS Air Operator's Certificate for not less than one year.
(e) Approval for ZFTT for a further type of aeroplane shall only be given if the operator has not less than 90 days operational experience of that aeroplane type.
(f) Approval for ZFTT will only be given to a training organisation provided by an operator or a training organisation having a specific approved arrangement with a JAR–OPS 1 Air Operator assuring that student pre-requisites are met and the type rating will be restricted to that operator until flying under supervision has been accomplished.
2 REQUIRED PILOT EXPERIENCE
ZFTT will only be approved for type rating training for pilots of multi-pilot aeroplanes who meet the minimum flying experience specified for the level of flight simulator to be used on the course, as follows:
(a) Pilots undertaking ZFTT shall have completed not less than 1500 hours flight time or 250 route sectors on a relevant aeroplane type if a flight simulator qualified to Level CG or C is used during the course. If a Level DG, Interim D or D qualified flight simulator is used the pilot shall have not less than 500 hours flight time or 100 route sectors on a relevant type;
(b) A relevant type of aeroplane is a turbo-jet, transport category aeroplane with a MTOM of not less than 10 tons or an approved passenger seating configuration for not less than 20 passengers.
(c) Instructor Qualification: For the additional specific take-off and landing exercises the instructor shall hold a TRI(A) rating.
3 LINE FLYING AFTER ZFTT
(a) Line Flying under supervision shall commence as soon as possible but not later than 15 days after completing the ZFTT;
(b) The first four take-offs and landings carried out by a pilot following ZFTT shall be flown under the supervision of a TRI(A) occupying a pilot’s seat.
Of course, these are only the rules that apply within the JAA. For other regimes you will need to direct your query to the relevant national authority.
Approval of Aeroplane Zero Flight Time Type Rating Training Courses
1 APPROVAL OF ZERO FLIGHT TIME TRAINING (ZFTT)
For approval of a type rating course using ZFTT the following criteria will apply:
(a) The flight simulator to be used shall be qualified in accordance with JAR–STD and user approved by the Authority. User approval will only be given if the flight simulator is representative of the aeroplane flown by the operator.
(b) The flight simulator shall be fully serviceable during ZFTT (see JAR–STD).
(c) Additional take-off and landing exercises shall be included in the type rating course and at least six take-offs and landings shall be conducted under the instruction of a TRI(A).
(d) For an initial approval to conduct ZFTT an operator shall have held a JAR–OPS Air Operator's Certificate for not less than one year.
(e) Approval for ZFTT for a further type of aeroplane shall only be given if the operator has not less than 90 days operational experience of that aeroplane type.
(f) Approval for ZFTT will only be given to a training organisation provided by an operator or a training organisation having a specific approved arrangement with a JAR–OPS 1 Air Operator assuring that student pre-requisites are met and the type rating will be restricted to that operator until flying under supervision has been accomplished.
2 REQUIRED PILOT EXPERIENCE
ZFTT will only be approved for type rating training for pilots of multi-pilot aeroplanes who meet the minimum flying experience specified for the level of flight simulator to be used on the course, as follows:
(a) Pilots undertaking ZFTT shall have completed not less than 1500 hours flight time or 250 route sectors on a relevant aeroplane type if a flight simulator qualified to Level CG or C is used during the course. If a Level DG, Interim D or D qualified flight simulator is used the pilot shall have not less than 500 hours flight time or 100 route sectors on a relevant type;
(b) A relevant type of aeroplane is a turbo-jet, transport category aeroplane with a MTOM of not less than 10 tons or an approved passenger seating configuration for not less than 20 passengers.
(c) Instructor Qualification: For the additional specific take-off and landing exercises the instructor shall hold a TRI(A) rating.
3 LINE FLYING AFTER ZFTT
(a) Line Flying under supervision shall commence as soon as possible but not later than 15 days after completing the ZFTT;
(b) The first four take-offs and landings carried out by a pilot following ZFTT shall be flown under the supervision of a TRI(A) occupying a pilot’s seat.
Of course, these are only the rules that apply within the JAA. For other regimes you will need to direct your query to the relevant national authority.