Goodyear Arizona OAT on the cheap?

[microfilter]

rsr3 gives a much more level-headed response

[c_jephcott]

I've heard stories from Cabair (Cranfield) too about students turning up and looking a little bit on the scruffy side, and consequently being told to go home and smarten up, and have a shave. It happens, as the point has been made in here - quite simply, you are training to be a professional learning a professional skill. Therefore it should match that you should take pride in your appearance.

[scroggs]

Level headed? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I have been in the position of training young people for the professional flying business, and you would be surprised how many simply do not understand that washing every day is a pre-requisite of being in close company with others. Combine with that the requirement to develop a professional attitude about every part of the student's persona, and it becomes obvious that advice is required before the problems develop. Even so, some will assume that the rules and standards don't apply to them, and will require reminding - and, if necessary, being sent to get themselves into a condition in which they are acceptable to be near.

Learning to be a professional is not restricted to the mechanics of flying an aeroplane and spewing out technical information. It is about personal standards of every kind. It is not sufficient to hope that the less savoury amongst your peers will somehow magically develop cleanliness, tidiness, and personal responsibility before they set foot in an airline interview. They need to be shown what standards are required, and thereafter to be guided in how to maintain and hopefully exceed them.

Believe me, I know. I was one of those recidivists as a 21 year old! If it hadn't been for some fairly strong 'guidance', I would not be a professional pilot now.

Scroggs

[Mercenary Pilot]

I believe all the integrated schools have a similar policy. It’s quite understandable really. A number of the students have come straight out of six form and may have never worked for a professional company and my not have a proper understanding of why image is so important or why "individual" dress sense is unacceptable. Those who know better deserve to be told!

microfilter
I also get the impression you hold a grudge against OAT. Maybe you have a good reason, if so I think you should be up front about your reasons for badmouthing them. You come across as bitter rather than someone offering an honest insight into the company.

[asuweb]

microfilter
I also get the impression you hold a grudge against OAT. Maybe you have a good reason, if so I think you should be up front about your reasons for badmouthing them. You come across as bitter rather than someone offering an honest insight into the company.

Couldn't agree more.

[porridge]

hi all
well just to clear up some of the "hype" thats on ehre about OAT and Goodyear that people have heard
firstly - we do not start flying at 5am....the flying program runs from 6am through the whole day and through to the night....students actually request to fly at 6am and much prefer this time than any other time of the day!!!
as regards your comments about backseating....not sure who your source is but u got totally the wrong end of the stick here - you are assigned a flying partner and you can if you so desire backseat their flights and they backseat your flights - not all of them are possible as some are solos for a start - most of the backseating i did was to learn what we are being taught and to get more familiar with the area and it was 100% useful.....other backseating was on nav trips where one would fly out to somewhere and the other back which is much more fun than flying local!!!
It is not feasibly possible to backseat more than you fly!!!
i don't quite understand how there is no OAT rep outhere either?? the place is run by oxford....i agree there have been teething problems and not everything has run as smoothly as we would or oxford would have liked but everything has either been sorted or is getting done....AP himself was here the first few weeks making sure everything is ok and has been back when the new courses come out....also other staff from oxford have been here along with the staff that are here at present!!
as regards being miles from anywhere - a bit exaggerated - the base here is not in a "prime" location as was scottsdale being in the middle of the city!! although we do have to travel upto scottsdale if we want to go out or anything there are plenty of shops/restaurants etc within a few minutes drive (i say drive as you try walking in 40C heat!!!)
anyway just to finish...beign out in goodyear myself i can reassure people that things "are good"!!
regards
adam

Adj
Having read your post I would like you to consider when you have passed your CPL/IR at OAT to get an airline job you will have to do some assessments - e.g.:
Ability Tests
* Verbal comprehension - which require you to evaluate the logic of given statements.
* Numerical reasoning - which require you to interpret data from statistical tables.
* Diagrammatic reasoning - which ask you to recognise logical sequences within a series of diagrams or symbols.
There are also many other more specific tests: e.g. mechanical comprehension; visual estimation; classification; computer checking.
Having read your post I would have to say you would never make the verbal comprehension stage as I, who has taken the test, cannot make out what the h*ll you are going on about! To me it makes neither grammatical or any sense!
To be sure you have been suckered in by the OAT marketing team; that is certainly obvious. You will join an ever growing band of people who have licences, but have no chance of getting an airline job unless Daddy has connections!
Sorry – but that’s the way it appears to me from reading your post/s!
P

[Adj]

hi
im glad people seem to agree - OAT provide quality pilot training and are one of few places to offer this - like any other business not everythign runs smoothly and hicups are expected but i can assure anyone that OAT tries their upmost to make the customer happy!!
i respect your views microfilter however i don;t see them as being particulary constructive...more picky!
if people generally have had something happen thats cool...but saying..i heard that...blah blah blah doesn't mean much!! im sure whether your told to wash or not wouldn't change anyones view on going to oxford - my instructor today even said to one guy - u shud iron your shirt - its not being told what to do or treated like a kid in any way - its being professional and looking the part too!!
at the end of the day OAT get students jobs many with top airlines such as BA that others cannot and all the students here want to be pilots as thats their dream....if i was to be screwed around with getting that outcome then i would complain but if i come out in 15 months qualified and a job then what more could i ask for?!?

regards
adam

p.s
in response to porridge....i don't care in the slightest of your assessment - often i will type quickly and compact..its what we call slang!...i was unaware that posting on PPrune constitutes a grammar exam>?!?
lets not forget were all perfect at typing either!!
im so glad you found the time to logistically break down my responce and analyze it for me....
til we meet again!
adam

[Adj]

Originally Posted by porridge

Adj
Having read your post I would like you to consider when you have passed your CPL/IR at OAT to get an airline job you will have to do some assessments - e.g.:
Ability Tests
* Verbal comprehension - which require you to evaluate the logic of given statements.
* Numerical reasoning - which require you to interpret data from statistical tables.
* Diagrammatic reasoning - which ask you to recognise logical sequences within a series of diagrams or symbols.
There are also many other more specific tests: e.g. mechanical comprehension; visual estimation; classification; computer checking.
Having read your post I would have to say you would never make the verbal comprehension stage as I, who has taken the test, cannot make out what the h*ll you are going on about! To me it makes neither grammatical or any sense!
To be sure you have been suckered in by the OAT marketing team; that is certainly obvious. You will join an ever growing band of people who have licences, but have no chance of getting an airline job unless Daddy has connections!
Sorry – but that’s the way it appears to me from reading your post/s!
P

my grandpas not very good either

[porridge]

Adj
You sum up the type of **nker that OAT seems to attract. When I was out at Scottsdale last November doing some other work I recall several times when I opened the security door to the ramp that people of your ilk would pass though as if I was some doorman without so much as a nod or an acknowledgement. So different the polite and courteous Dutch or Belgium guys who would always thank you or when the role was reversed hold the door for you! Now I may be old school and “‘n oupa” (Grandpa). But at least the people from the Low Countries have been brought up to have better manners and I know who I’d rather share the flight deck with (Scroggs - you might like to comment here about flight deck etiquette)!
Yes you will probably get your chance because the industry is short of crews, but you will get your dues someday which ever way it pans out!

[goodyear_inmate]

Goodyear

Porridge,

I understand and agree with a lot of what you have said on this thread but I think it is a little strong to suggest that we are all generic "**nkers that OAT seems to attract"

Goodyear_Inmate

[BillieBob]

OAT provide quality pilot training....

True

....and are one of few places to offer this

Not true

There are many places that offer quality pilot training and, as one of the recipients of the 'product', I can say that OAT, whilst amongst the best, is certainly not the best at consistently producing a well-rounded pilot, prepared for the RHS of a multi-pilot aeroplane.

It is interesting that I and my colleagues can, in the first two or three hours of type rating training, identify from which FTO a trainee originates with an astounding degree of accuracy.

[Adj]

hi
i meant integrated training when i stated that billiebob incase of confusion! i understand there are many many places to offer quality training....
.....i agree there are some problems here but im happy and feel my training is unaffected...obv some others feel differently
and i don;t think its fair to judge or insult someone based on a post...

adam

[Donandar]

At the end of the day it's not about the company at all - but who you are as a person. I'm sure Oxford, Cabair, FTE, CTC etc. are all top quality schools that deliver high quality airline pilot training (I'm mainly looking at an 'integrated' type of route). You could go to any of these schools and get your licence and get the best quality training that you can from that school.

It doesn't mean however that if you're a complete that you'll get a job. Airlines aren't going to hire someone with an attitude, regardless of where they came from - but to then complain that it's X schools fault is plain ridiculous.

I would say BillieBob that although there is truth in your statement, most schools will knock out consistently well rounded airline pilots for the right seat - but only in the areas that they can do so. Training schools can't change someones attitudes or opinions and for this, the only person who you can blame, is the one who's complaining he can't get a job and can't see why. Once they've left their training school, if they feel "I can get a job anywhere" kind of thing (that cocky confidence), it's only their own fault for thinking so, not the methods of any one school.

Thats my take on it.

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by Donandar

Training schools can't change someones attitudes or opinions....

Actually, yes they can - and should. When you front up that £60,000 or more to your chosen FTO for an integrated pre-airline course, you are paying not just for flying training but to be fully prepared in all respects for the job you crave. That includes, where necessary, attitude 'adjustment' and all the other things that we've been discussing above. If a school does not attempt to do this, then it's selling you short and your chances of obtaining - or keeping - a job are thus diminished.

Many people don't need a great deal of guidance in the presentation and personality skills that are very necessary in a multi-crew environment, and thus the schools can treat them with a light touch, but there are a significant number who, through their attitudes and personal habits, will struggle to succeed in our field unless they get strong guidance before these issues become a real problem.

It's quite obvious that some people posting on this and other threads have not been beneficiaries of such guidance and, as many have pointed out, will find the process of obtaining work that much more difficult as a result. A good school will take such problems in its stride.

Scroggs

[FunFlyin]

Microfilter,

Backtracking a little. I spent four months out in arizona in 04, and i have to say.

Its the middle of the desert, the temperatures there are amazing. You are walking around with a permanent sweat (although its dry heat). Most people will shower twice or so a day just for that reason. But as it has been said if they dont it isnt pleasant sitting with someone in a small cockpit when they are sweating that much and not showering. Its just good sound advice.

The temperatures are also the reasons for the early starts. For some people this is the first time they will have flown. Especially solo. And come the afternoon you get a lot of thermal turbulence. The mornings are the best time to start your flying, when you are happier the afternoons are amusing and a bit more challenging.

I'm not too sure what you have against the setup or the company. But it seems you are trying to blow things out of proportion.

To all you pilots out in Goodyear. You guys missed out..... Scottsdale was the muts nuts.

[Drap-air]

Originally Posted by porridge

Having read your post I would have to say you would never make the verbal comprehension stage as cannot make out what the h*ll you are going on about! To me it makes neither grammatical or any sense!

You mention you have taken the test but did you actually pass?

Originally Posted by porridge

I, who has taken the test,

You are the self confessed, all singing all dancing god of English grammar and you wrote that? Furthermore, it appears your comprehension of the title of this thread is somewhat poor. The thread is about OAT moving to Goodyear and you posted a comment regarding Adj's use of the English language. Adj was merely answering the questions previously posted, unlike yourself. Do you still wish to call us all at OAT ***kers?

Having recently returned from Scottsdale it is a shame OAT had to move to Goodyear. However, OAT is a business after all and can anyone blame a business for wishing to cut costs? Fuel at Scottsdale was about $2 per gallon more expensive than other nearby airfields as a simple example and sitting in a warrior for 25 mins at the end of the runway waiting for a take-off clearance at what is an extreamly busy airfield did get a little annoying and hot. I did visit Goodyear, flew in a number of times and the facilities are much better than those at Scottsdale and I can assure people who are going to go there will have a fantastic time and great flying experiencies. Yes Scottsdale Airport is in the middle of a fantastic area with great night life etc etc, but as previously stated you go to the US to learn to fly.

Backseating can be boring sometimes but I would strongly advise it. Sitting in the backseat improves your situational awareness ten-fold and allows you to pick up on others mistakes while learning and will improve your flying.

Ps. There is an English bar in Fashion Square Mall in Scottsdale where you can get every kind of English beer!

[boogie-nicey]

When a student turns up at OAT's door in Oxfordshire having completed the FAA CPL/IR and wishing to convert, they are probably sneered at through the teeth. Yet when it suits OAT they encompass their training in the US. Double standards for sure.

There are many graduates from the US that can no doubt fly better than there OAT equivalents. Simply because they focused on flight training whereas OAT harnesses all of the students with a degree of political fear and JAA draconian bureacracy, too much distraction and not enough flying...

[microfilter]

Boogey-Nicey spot on again..... Perhaps Billiebob you could expand on your last post with some enlightening examples?

[Groundloop]

Originally Posted by boogie-nicey

When a student turns up at OAT's door in Oxfordshire having completed the FAA CPL/IR and wishing to convert, they are probably sneered at through the teeth. Yet when it suits OAT they encompass their training in the US. Double standards for sure.

Eh, No! Training may be in the States but it is to the JAA syllabus, NOT the FAA syllabus.

[microfilter]

groundloop is right- that happens if you haven't been doing the 'right' training in their eyes.....I bet the FAA system is a lot better than this bureaucratic Eurofarce anyway !