Hour Building (General & UK)
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Hour Building
Hi guys just wondering if anyone knows of any cheap places to hour build in the states. Cheapest i have seen is $48 with debenair for a cessna 152.
Precision Landings
Precision Landings
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CAA IMC & Hour Building
Hi All,
I am trying to work out whether I should do a IMC rating to get a good grounding before going on for CPL/ME and IR training while studying my ATPL ground school modular course.
Also thinking it would be good for flying around the U.K when building my hours up here.
Would it be best to spend the cash on 15 hours for an IMC followed by hour building or not to bother with?
Cheers
Sean
I am trying to work out whether I should do a IMC rating to get a good grounding before going on for CPL/ME and IR training while studying my ATPL ground school modular course.
Also thinking it would be good for flying around the U.K when building my hours up here.
Would it be best to spend the cash on 15 hours for an IMC followed by hour building or not to bother with?
Cheers
Sean
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I cannot speak form experiance as I am about to start my IMC, but the reason I am starting it is that I am planning to do ATPL's distance learning and hour build alongside the ATPL's and my day job. And from experience of the last 18 months of holding my PPL the chance of building circa 75-100 hours in a year or so without an IMC in the UK is quite slim if you are restricted by day jobs or other commitments. So I am primarily planning the IMC in order to facilitate flying when I otherwise wouldn't be able to.
wether its useful for the CPL or IR? I don't know but the discipline of reasonably accurate and instrument flying must be at least a lttle help.
wether its useful for the CPL or IR? I don't know but the discipline of reasonably accurate and instrument flying must be at least a lttle help.
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Sean,
My experience says definitely 'yes', but not necessarily for the reasons you stated. It does depend upon how you plan to advance your flying training.
I did my PPL in 1982, then considered commercial flying in the late 80's at the time the BCPL came out. Doing the IMC rating I believe lifted the quality of my flying an enormous amount; I'd say it's like doing the PPL course 'properly', with much better discipline in the flying that, with further specific tuition, I was able to carry forward to successfully complete the CPL flying test. The IMC exams aren't a great help with the CPL/ATPL papers but they do help to keep you focussed on a little academic work.
In the event, I didn't get further than the BCPL, as I didn't qualify then for a Class 1 medical. Bizarrely, under JAA, I now do, but a little late for me now. I'd strongly advise anyone considering a professional aviation career to invest in the medical first, to save disappointment and money later. Someone I knew in the early 80's got a cadetship for ATC at Bournemouth and then failed the medical (eye problems again).
Although I've let the BCPL lapse I keep the PPL going, renewing my IMC rating for the umpteenth time last week - an SRA into a military field just for something different, a little stretching and great fun!
Personally, I've always regarded the IMC rating as a 'get you home service' rather than carte blanche to go plunging about in a light single in unsuitable weather. It taught me more about proper respect for the weather and I suppose it was frightening myself a bit on a couple of occasions that also pushed me towards it. I think I was a little lucky that my post-PPL over-confidence didn't get me into real trouble.
Anyhow, the best of luck with your chosen path.
Cheers,
The Odd One
My experience says definitely 'yes', but not necessarily for the reasons you stated. It does depend upon how you plan to advance your flying training.
I did my PPL in 1982, then considered commercial flying in the late 80's at the time the BCPL came out. Doing the IMC rating I believe lifted the quality of my flying an enormous amount; I'd say it's like doing the PPL course 'properly', with much better discipline in the flying that, with further specific tuition, I was able to carry forward to successfully complete the CPL flying test. The IMC exams aren't a great help with the CPL/ATPL papers but they do help to keep you focussed on a little academic work.
In the event, I didn't get further than the BCPL, as I didn't qualify then for a Class 1 medical. Bizarrely, under JAA, I now do, but a little late for me now. I'd strongly advise anyone considering a professional aviation career to invest in the medical first, to save disappointment and money later. Someone I knew in the early 80's got a cadetship for ATC at Bournemouth and then failed the medical (eye problems again).
Although I've let the BCPL lapse I keep the PPL going, renewing my IMC rating for the umpteenth time last week - an SRA into a military field just for something different, a little stretching and great fun!
Personally, I've always regarded the IMC rating as a 'get you home service' rather than carte blanche to go plunging about in a light single in unsuitable weather. It taught me more about proper respect for the weather and I suppose it was frightening myself a bit on a couple of occasions that also pushed me towards it. I think I was a little lucky that my post-PPL over-confidence didn't get me into real trouble.
Anyhow, the best of luck with your chosen path.
Cheers,
The Odd One
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Personally, I've always regarded the IMC rating as a 'get you home service' rather than carte blanche to go plunging about in a light single in unsuitable weather.
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I regard it as a rating that is used to get you home and not to use as a way of flying on a bad weather day.
I was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea considering I will properly end up doing my IR later and I was hoping this would be a good start for that and if I get caught by the weather here.
At the moment I have the class 1 medical, studying a modular ground school course and am flying PA28's and PA28 Arrow.
The other problem is hour building, I was in the U.S recently and decided not to use a school for hour building as I wasn't happy.
So now while doing the ground school at home in the evenings, I am trying to go flying when I can during the week or weekends.
With the cost of U.K hiring etc; I am contacting as many people I know, flying groups and placing adverts to try and fly their aircraft rather then using the school's aircraft as their rates are too expensive.
While doing the above, saving cash for the CPL/ME and IR courses, I might have to go abroad to finish my hour building but will not use the U.S for that.
Thanks for information
Sean
I was thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea considering I will properly end up doing my IR later and I was hoping this would be a good start for that and if I get caught by the weather here.
At the moment I have the class 1 medical, studying a modular ground school course and am flying PA28's and PA28 Arrow.
The other problem is hour building, I was in the U.S recently and decided not to use a school for hour building as I wasn't happy.
So now while doing the ground school at home in the evenings, I am trying to go flying when I can during the week or weekends.
With the cost of U.K hiring etc; I am contacting as many people I know, flying groups and placing adverts to try and fly their aircraft rather then using the school's aircraft as their rates are too expensive.
While doing the above, saving cash for the CPL/ME and IR courses, I might have to go abroad to finish my hour building but will not use the U.S for that.
Thanks for information
Sean
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The problem with the "get you home only" view, is that by definition, you won't be current when you need it most. If you aren't current, then it will be lethal...just when you have painted yourself into a corner too! Honestly, with a bit of decent planning and currency then IMC is not a big issue.
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Hour building
Dear all...
Can anyone help?
I am in a ponder as to where to go Hour Building, people keep saying the States.
Well thats great but where?
Plus if I could I would rather stay in Europe, is there anywhere I could, Spain would be good.
Would be grateful for any help, Thanks
Can anyone help?
I am in a ponder as to where to go Hour Building, people keep saying the States.
Well thats great but where?
Plus if I could I would rather stay in Europe, is there anywhere I could, Spain would be good.
Would be grateful for any help, Thanks
Why do it if it's not fun?
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First question - where did you do your PPL?
Next question, where do you think you might do your CPL?
Personally, I would stay away from both of those places for hour-building. Go somewhere completely different, for a wider range of experiences!
I did my hour-building in Phoenix, Arizona. Had a fantastic time, and would recommend it as a great base to fly from for a month or two.
My only regret is that I went on to do my CPL in Florida. Granted that Florida and Arizona are about as far apart as you can get in terms of terrain (and therefore VFR navigation techniques, and special training that you'll need like mountain flying) - but if I could do it again, I'd have gone somewhere different for the hour-building, just to get some real experience of another country. Top of my list would have been Canada, South Africa and Australia, all of which have very good general aviation scenes, but little or no JAR-approved training.
Whatever you decide, though, the most important thing is to have fun!
FFF
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Next question, where do you think you might do your CPL?
Personally, I would stay away from both of those places for hour-building. Go somewhere completely different, for a wider range of experiences!
I did my hour-building in Phoenix, Arizona. Had a fantastic time, and would recommend it as a great base to fly from for a month or two.
My only regret is that I went on to do my CPL in Florida. Granted that Florida and Arizona are about as far apart as you can get in terms of terrain (and therefore VFR navigation techniques, and special training that you'll need like mountain flying) - but if I could do it again, I'd have gone somewhere different for the hour-building, just to get some real experience of another country. Top of my list would have been Canada, South Africa and Australia, all of which have very good general aviation scenes, but little or no JAR-approved training.
Whatever you decide, though, the most important thing is to have fun!
FFF
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Old and cynical!
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HSG, just for the record, which countries have you flown solo for more than five hours? from your post
it's pretty evident that you haven't flown in the USA or at least not outside of Florida.
I would certainly have no doubts about suggesting California and the surrounding states for hourbuilding, both for price and diverse experiences.
Pilots trained in the US tend not to get a grasp on strong crosswind landings, changeable environments and a million ATC frequency changes
I would certainly have no doubts about suggesting California and the surrounding states for hourbuilding, both for price and diverse experiences.
Whilst not wishing to denigrate hours building in the US, I must take issue with VisaGeeza. Having flown at least 5 hours (probably nearer 50 hrs) in each of 49 states (never did make it to HI) I can confirm that the ATC environment in Europe is significantly more intense and entirely different.
On the other hand, crosswinds and changing environments are far more significant in some parts of the US than anywhere in Europe - try anywhere in Colorado about now!
If you are looking to do CPL/IR in Europe, my advice would be to do at least some of your hours building in Europe but, if you have the chance to do some in the US, avoid the benign areas like FL, CA, AZ, etc - go somewhere more challenging.
On the other hand, crosswinds and changing environments are far more significant in some parts of the US than anywhere in Europe - try anywhere in Colorado about now!
If you are looking to do CPL/IR in Europe, my advice would be to do at least some of your hours building in Europe but, if you have the chance to do some in the US, avoid the benign areas like FL, CA, AZ, etc - go somewhere more challenging.
'pilots trained in the US tend not to get a grasp on strong crosswind landings'
yeah ofcourse its little known meteorological fact but theres no wind in the USA !
In terms of pure hour building then i think the US is a must certainly compareed to Europe (not sure about OZ or SA), purely because of the cost. For block hours you can get a 172 for $70 and a 152 for just over $50, convert that into pounds and you'll see why im saying that. Oh and you u dont need a visa or have to deal with the TSA for hour bulding either.
beast
yeah ofcourse its little known meteorological fact but theres no wind in the USA !
In terms of pure hour building then i think the US is a must certainly compareed to Europe (not sure about OZ or SA), purely because of the cost. For block hours you can get a 172 for $70 and a 152 for just over $50, convert that into pounds and you'll see why im saying that. Oh and you u dont need a visa or have to deal with the TSA for hour bulding either.
beast
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Pilots trained in the US tend not to get a grasp on strong crosswind landings, changeable environments and a million ATC frequency changes...more importantly, employers know this.
Try landing on 25 when the afternoon sea breeze kicks in at 15 knots from 160° and ATC are reluctant to change runways.....and this is in California!
Try flying in the LA Basin and tell me that ATC is not as busy as in the UK....In my experience it is the opposite.
I have also never come across any mountains / desert to negotiate in the UK......
For hour building the USA does look attractive, even though they have an Idiot in power over there. The aircraft rates are cheap, the dollar is weak compared to the pound, transatlantic flights are cheap, and cost of living is cheap.......
South Africa is a beautiful country, with fantastic scenery and beaches. I would like to fly there, but unfortunately I'd have to take a PPL flight test to be able to.
Canada would be brilliant. Not sure on the rates, or whether they would accept a foreign PPL without a flight test, but it would be great fun. My plan would be to rent an N reg in the USA, then cross the boarder and fly around Canada.....
Good luck!
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If you want to fly from Canada you do not have to take any exams or medicals, just your standard proficiency check & you need to obtain a bit of paper to put in with your license to prove you hold all the necessary documents, this only costs $45 from Transport Canada & takes about 15 mins to issue & valid for 12 months, A bargain!
I have been looking at hiring rates there and they are more expensive than the USA, But like everyone is saying, I think you can gain allot more practical experience there?
Enjoy
YYZ
I have been looking at hiring rates there and they are more expensive than the USA, But like everyone is saying, I think you can gain allot more practical experience there?
Enjoy
YYZ
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Nags teeth!
Thought i would offer my advice to pile! hour building was for me one of my best experiences of flying yet! I just returned from my last hour building session (well 2 months ago) which was in new zealand. i spent the winter there (june- october) flying out of wanaka in c172's and 177's and found the experience unbelievable. there is nothing like an early morning flight around mt aspiring (10,000 ft) or flying to queenstown for lunch through the mountains. also the cost there are pretty cheap, i think i paid about $120 nz per hour in the 172, and the staff and airfield were excellent. check them out at www.nz-flights.com
very relaxed flying, great views and very different attitude from the uk.
Before that i was in melbourne, australia with the royal victoria aero club, who are another great outfit. they have one of the most extensive fleets i have seen and offered me one of the 150's for about £40 an hour block time. there were very helpful and i got my retract cert there in a turbo arrow (an experience on its own) check them at www.rvac.com.au
Again i would recomend them, all the instructors were great, spots to go are amazing from dirt strips to moorabin (where they are based) which is one of the busiest GA fields in the southern hemi. parrallel runways, busy airspace and challenging conditions from hot and humid weather to crazy wind changes.
prior to that i did some flying with calgary flying club who were also excellent, so i would recomend them too.
my view was to enjoy the flying, get as much experience as possible and use the time before further training wisely! and i dont just mean experience, but do some other activities that you enjoy before committing to a life of work! I was snowboarding and surfing in my spare time, as well as working like a slave to pay for it all.
hope this helps. most of all enjoy.
cheers..
ps. any questions drop me a line..
Thought i would offer my advice to pile! hour building was for me one of my best experiences of flying yet! I just returned from my last hour building session (well 2 months ago) which was in new zealand. i spent the winter there (june- october) flying out of wanaka in c172's and 177's and found the experience unbelievable. there is nothing like an early morning flight around mt aspiring (10,000 ft) or flying to queenstown for lunch through the mountains. also the cost there are pretty cheap, i think i paid about $120 nz per hour in the 172, and the staff and airfield were excellent. check them out at www.nz-flights.com
very relaxed flying, great views and very different attitude from the uk.
Before that i was in melbourne, australia with the royal victoria aero club, who are another great outfit. they have one of the most extensive fleets i have seen and offered me one of the 150's for about £40 an hour block time. there were very helpful and i got my retract cert there in a turbo arrow (an experience on its own) check them at www.rvac.com.au
Again i would recomend them, all the instructors were great, spots to go are amazing from dirt strips to moorabin (where they are based) which is one of the busiest GA fields in the southern hemi. parrallel runways, busy airspace and challenging conditions from hot and humid weather to crazy wind changes.
prior to that i did some flying with calgary flying club who were also excellent, so i would recomend them too.
my view was to enjoy the flying, get as much experience as possible and use the time before further training wisely! and i dont just mean experience, but do some other activities that you enjoy before committing to a life of work! I was snowboarding and surfing in my spare time, as well as working like a slave to pay for it all.
hope this helps. most of all enjoy.
cheers..
ps. any questions drop me a line..
Why do it if it's not fun?
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VisaGeeza - I only learnt to handle a cross-wind in the US, having always managed in the UK without really understanding what I was doing. There are good schools out there, and there are bad schools, just the same as there are here, or anywhere else. Besides which, all Nags wants to do is hour-building, so the standard of instruction is probably not very relevant to the thread in any case.
FFF
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FFF
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Old and cynical!
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FFF
Especially as I didn't even mention it!!!!!
so the standard of instruction is probably not very relevant to the thread in any case.
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[QUOTE] i would say the States are great for PPL because the hours are cheap but if you want to become a professional pilot stay in the Uk
Well try flying over In Florida during hurricane season .
Although this gave me a bit of a laugh I reckon its about the most stupid ive ever read on pprune ..
Pilots trained in the US tend not to get a grasp on strong crosswind landings
Although this gave me a bit of a laugh I reckon its about the most stupid ive ever read on pprune ..
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Hour Building
Cheers everyone, thank you very much for the advice, you have all given me something to think about anyway.
I like the idea of Canada, it's not somewhere I had thought about.
I am going to look also at California too, if anyone knows of any good places to hire an aeroplane in either.
Thanks once again..
Nags Teeth
I like the idea of Canada, it's not somewhere I had thought about.
I am going to look also at California too, if anyone knows of any good places to hire an aeroplane in either.
Thanks once again..
Nags Teeth