Maths and Physics knowledge req'd for ATPL and airline flying?

[Callsign Kilo]

Mathematically, having a knowledge (and by no means an extensive knowledge) of basic transposition of formula, trigonometry, converting units and manipulating data can be an advantage to you when you are in groundschool

In terms of physics, you will see its use when you study aerodymamics, engines, structures and electrics. Don't panic, none of its rocket science, but an understanding WILL help.

When I started my training I had a similar worry, however before you commit maybe buy a secondary school maths and physics book or even the Oxford Aviation Training range of Maths and Physics interactive CD ROMs which I have heard are good

I would say as well that brushing up on your mental maths is most essential for life on the flightdeck.

[low n' slow]

I've allways had a problem with maths, especially mental maths under pressure. I still have this problem but I know it and therefor I can plan ahead for it. In the long run, I can make shure that I know the methods that are the easiset and that I know which type of calculations that will be made.
In the short term, it means that I make shure that I have all calculations done way before I need them. Descent calculations for example I try to complete just after leveling off for cruize and all other calculations to be done before the descend.

As for groundschool, if you can handle addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, basic algebra and handling of formulae, basic trigonomitry (SIN, COS and TAN), you should be well off. Navigation and aerodynamics is mostly mathematics and physics and it really helps if you can handle your numbers here.

Another thing that has helped me is to learn to see what is "reasonable" or not. This is not allways something to take for granted, but it will if you know how, help you in avoiding major mistakes by letting you see the bigger picture and get all the nubers into a context (such as choosing which direction to go to get to a destination, north or south...).

Hope this helps.
/LnS

[bg187]

What level of Maths???

Hi am currently in college. I've already got my GCSE Maths do i need A-Level Maths to become a pilot??? Not sure if its neccassary..............

[scroggs]

Had you looked just a couple of topics below the top of the page, you'd have found another one titled 'Mathematics' in which your question had already been answered. Had you done a search, you'd have found this thread (which your post is now merged into) which was last active only yesterday. Had you checked the Archive Reference Thread at the top of the page, you'd have found several links of use to you.

Some of the things we look for in new pilots are resourcefulness, initiative, observation and an eye for detail. These things would seem to be lacking in some of our newer members!

Scroggs

[dxbpilot]

Physics involved in JAA ATPL's

Hi, i'm currently teaching myself physics for the ATPL's i am starting in November as I did not do this subject at school. My question is how in depth is the physics and maths involved ? If I know the basics will this be sufficiant ?

thanks

[neilia]

Hi there,
Yes, it's all at a basic level. Some of the things to look at are...
- manipulating algebra (e.g. a*b = c becomes a = c/b )
- resolving forces
- trigonometry
- electronics - resistance, capacitance, reactance, inductance, power
- moments
- basic understanding of concepts like work, power, torque, inertia
- mass and density
- gas laws

Um, brain gone blank. Hope that helps a bit.

[Martin4]

Thought id post a small review on the OAT Media CD-ROM's, I bought 'Part 1' of both 'Essential Maths' and 'Essential Physics'

I havent looked much at the Physics one yet (Leaving that untill I have got the basic mathematics out of the way ).

The maths one is great, there are 32 lessons covering the following:

Number & Algebra:

• General Number Work
• Parts of a Whole
• Use of Symbols
• Equasions
• Formulae
• Working with Fractions
• Working with Decemals
• Working with Percentages
• Working with Radios
• Symbols, Roles & Manipulation
• More Decemals & Fractions
• More Percentages
• Symbols, Rules & Manipulation 2
• More Equasions
• More Forumulae

Shape, Space & Measure:

• Angles
• Circles
• Permimiter
• Volume
• Measures
• More Angles
• Triangles
• Area
• Right Angled Triangles 1 (Pythagoras' Theorem)
• Right Angled Triangles 2 (Sin, Cos & Tan)
• Measures 2
• Vectors
• Perimiter, Area & Volume
• Further Trigonometry 1 (3D Work)
• Further Trigonometry 2 (Sine & Cosine Rules)
• Further Trigonometry 3 (More Sin & Cos)
• Vectors 2

So as you can see there is a wide range of subjects you can chose from and they each come with a test in which you can chose how many questions you would like to answer on that given lesson. I havent worked my way through all the lessons yet but if the first few is anythign to go by then each lesson will last about a hour! so great value for money if you ask me.

The Physics topics are:

Electric Charge

• What is Charge?
• More about Charge
• Flow of Charge
• Electrostatic Case Studies

Fundamentals of Electricity

• Current
• Voltage
• Power
• Introduction Alternating Current

Electricity in the Home

• Household Electricity
• Power and Energy in the Home

Electrical Circuits

• Electrical Components
• Ohm's Law
• Conductors & Insulators
• Components Transfer Energy
• Series & Parallel Circuits
• Electronic Choices

Magnetism

• Magnetism
• Electricity & Magnetism
• The Motor Effect
• Electromagnetic Introduction

And thats only Part 1 of each subject, you can get Part 2 of Physics already and Part 2 of Maths is still in the making, so theres lots to learn if you have the time and motivation.

Cheers,
Martin

[Stall Inducer]

Many people make a big issue of needing rocket science Maths and Physics to become a pilot. In short you don't - if you attend a reasonably good ground school they will teach you everything you need to know, and refresh the basics as you go along and also the tricks and short cuts to work out the answers. For example RYR 738 gives an example of a requirement to work out the rate of decent for an approach - in reality in commercial aviation most approaches are based on a 3 degree slope where by multiplying you ground speed by 5 you will come out with the same answer as 738 gives by using a longer process.
On a practicle scale day to day I use my 3 times table to work out track miles required in descent add a few miles if you've got a tailwind minus a few if you've got a headwind - it's not an in exact science so an ability to look at numbers and think I'm at 40,000ft I'm expecting to start descent around 120nm out means you won't find yourself overhead your destination still at cruise altitiude just because you mis programmed the FMC.
Comming from someone who's not great at Maths I really didn't find the ATPL exams to be a problem (just scrapped a 'C' grade at GCSE)

[ghost_rider20]

Mathmatics Brushing Up!

Hello everyone just wondering how many of you taking/or have taken your ATPL's have found a particular 'maths brush up guide' helpful to working out various equations/Algebra, Trig e.c.t. As I am looking at taking the exams in the not so distant future, got my C in maths at GCSE level, but that was a while ago, and have recently finished my apprentiship in light vehicle engineering, more physics than maths!!! which im fine with, but the trig e.c.t i KNOW is going to need brushing up!!
Any help on where to find various publications in this area would be greatly appreciated

Lee

[cloudz]

I am finding OAT media's essential Math's & Physics on CD=ROM very helpful in prep for the ATPL's.

www.oatmedia.com delivered to your door.

Otherwise have a look on amazon and try "mental maths for pilots" or "Math for dummies" series is also very good.

Hope this helps.

Cloudz

[captainloulou]

Maths brushing up

Hi all,
I have actually a different view regarding the mathematics. I have about a spare year before starting my training (this is due to saving money!). I had a thought about brushing up my mathematics and am actually perparing to graduate for a A level in both maths and physics. The reason for that is that at the end it could save me 30k as with a A level I can apply for a sponsorship with an airline (which would also guarantee me a job after graduating). On top of that I think that having the best bases you can before starting the training is worthwile as it will probably my understanding. Finally the investment for a A level distance learning course in mathematics is between 150 and 250 quids. I do not know if I am doing the right thing but one thing I am sure is that it can't be bad! Therefore I would recommend this route to whoever has a spare year and want to improve maths and physics before starting.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

From my experience there is no need to do A-Levels in maths or physics unless you specifically want to and have a flair for both. It certainly won't stop you passing ATPLs' or bar you from a flying career. I didn't take maths or any science beyond GCSE.

The maths required in certain parts of the ATPL course can get tricky if you haven't got A-Level standard maths up your sleeve but it just requires a bit of effort and concentration to get your head round the principles involved. I found the standard of maths teaching at BGS was far superior to anything I ever encountered under the national curriculum!

Maths on the flight deck of a jet is mostly limited to some basic multiplication and division, and involves 'ball park figures' rather than precision. Personally I found myself doing far more mental maths under far more pressure during CPL nav in a light twin. Also bear in mind that while mental maths is often required in the air, the maths required on the ground in airline ops - fuel conversions for instance - will always be cross-checked using a calculator, as ball park isn't good enough in those cases! There really isn't too much to work up a sweat over. I find the hardest calculation of the day is trying to add up the duty hours of the crew after 4 sectors at 3am in the morning. I regularly resort to using my fingers at that point!

[thekkoot]

model question papers for maths and physics atpl course

Where i will find the model question papers or syllabus for maths and physics to prepare for atpl course. please help me ..

[ghost_rider20]

Mathematics.

Just wondering how tough the maths is at the ATPL's, might sound as if im contradicting myself, but, im very good at physics, have done 3 years at college (light vehicle engineering and production) and it has taught me so much about hydraulics, engines, forces at work on vehicles, and we done various projects on working out fuel consumption e.c.t blah blah and so much more, im very technical minded, and im not s#$t at maths but could be better! Just wondering if any of you guys doing them/or already done them, hired a tutor e.c.t to brush up things learnt at school,(which had been forgotten) and get up to speed working out various calculations, am sure i'll be fine but thought id ask as its bugging me, and before anyone says it, i don't doubt my own abillity.

Cheers guys/girls Lee

[mcgoo]

It's not very tough at all, about GCSE standard.

[BlueRobin]

So long as you can re-arrange simple equations, e.g. A= 2BC/DEF˛ and can do trig, you should be okay.

Probably the most complicated thing I have done in the last week is to work out the turn radius of an aircraft with 45 deg bank at 200kts then work out how long it took (2π!)

[Finals19]

Keynotes for Pilots

Try the Keynotes range of books - there is one for Mathematics and it contains most of what you need to know for the ATPL.

I am not that hot at maths myself, and had a thorough read of it. A lot on Trigonometry, geometry, manipulation of equations and Algebra, but all in all even I found it workable (its been years since I did anything mathematical)

[mrgaviates]

BlueRobin,
How long did it take?
MRG

[BlueRobin]

Longer than I thought, it's been a while since I had to do 2πr!

BTW, tan theta = v˛ / gr

[dewarg]

Aviation Formulary

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