Training in the USA (incl Florida!)
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Fly OFT
Hello guys!
I did my JAA PPL and some hours with Fly OFT, thought that they were proffessional but now I am very dissapointed with operations procedures (financial procudes exatly) from Fly OFT. Please tell me someone if has the same problem with this FTO....because I can't believe that a flight school like Fly OFT which is in co-operation with one of the better FTO in Europe Cabair can keep the money (deposit more than $3000) of a student who has finished the course more than 6 months!
I did my JAA PPL and some hours with Fly OFT, thought that they were proffessional but now I am very dissapointed with operations procedures (financial procudes exatly) from Fly OFT. Please tell me someone if has the same problem with this FTO....because I can't believe that a flight school like Fly OFT which is in co-operation with one of the better FTO in Europe Cabair can keep the money (deposit more than $3000) of a student who has finished the course more than 6 months!
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I've had a similar experience with OFT. Thought they still owed me something like 300 dollars after I finished my course. Turned out to be my fault entirely; they only owed me 4 dollars or so. But I found out that they become very hard to communicate with once you've left the facilities. So make sure you settle your account before you leave (don't leave during the weekend when the financial staff's gone). I paid part of my balance with my credit card, despite the 2% uplift, knowing that, in case of trouble, I had the credit card company on my side.
OTOH - If you deposited more than 3000 dollars more than what you were planning to expend there, then something else must have gone wrong as well. So there must be more to that story than what's written here.
OTOH - If you deposited more than 3000 dollars more than what you were planning to expend there, then something else must have gone wrong as well. So there must be more to that story than what's written here.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Listen to Big Grecian, he knows what he's talking about. Converting FAA to JAA is a nasty and expensive process. Myself and a lot of other people I know have done the conversion with lot's of hours already. Everyone has busted budget badly. I trained in the US and have worked as a pilot out there and there is NOWHERE that I would recommend to a foreigner. Sure, I know schools that will give you good training and those that offer good service but there always seems to be some kind of major pitfall with all of them. Stay at home, it's not worth the hassle!
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I would tend to agree, there is always a sting there somewhere, and once you leave the country, you are stuffed.
So dont go there with rose tinted glasses and dont pay up front.
So dont go there with rose tinted glasses and dont pay up front.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Did you do a search on pprune? There's five or so of them in the US, and nobody here has attended them all. But some people hold strong opinions on the schools they have visited (good and bad) and have already vented them here in a variety of threads.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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European nationals training under FAA? To be or not to be?
Firstly.. Hi all.
I've been researching professional pilot training for the last 8 months. Been to flyer shows at Heathrow, read extensively here for months, visited several FTOs, spoken to many more and reckon I'm nearing a decision of where and how to proceed. If before having having done all this, someone had told me it would be so difficult deciding where to spend these vast sums of money, I wouldn't have believed them.
I hear what you have to say about training in the USA. I still remain optimistic though and am still searching for the perfect school.
This first post is really to see whether any of you would add insight to my plan.
My end objective is to have an JAA frozen ATPL with as many hours under the belt on completion as possible so that when job hunting in Europe I stand out from the large number of applicants with JAA fATPLs obtained with minimum hours.
I am currently thinking that to study full time and relocate to sunny California is a really attractive proposition. The weather is good, the air space is busy for training purposes and the cost of living over there is considerably cheaper than Oxford where I am currently.
First stage:- Obtain full FAA CPL ME...7 months...Say $ 35,000
Next:-
Do FAA Instructor ratings including Multi engine $ 10,000,
work for a period, working on the assumption that I could average 70 flight hours a month.
After 6 months that would be over 400 hrs instruction plus the CPL, so looking at over 600 hours obtained in 19 months.
Prehaps could do a distance learning ATPL theory course at the same time? Say $5,000,
Return to U.K, convert IR... Approx $ 10,000.
All done to an estimate of $60,000. I think this is realistic not including living. But that you've got to pay anywhere.
Not much cheaper than doing it in the U.K and prehaps as much as a year longer but with some distinct advantages.
1). Completion with over 600 hours.
2). Valuable training as an instructor, plus could work as an instructor in other ICAO countries.
3). Finish with dual licenses. Very handy?
4). Living costs are lower than in the U.K so we save there. (Just check out how much child care is in this country!!!)
5). The weather is a
site nicer there than it is here.
6). I would be in the USA under a J-1 visa so my wife can work as well. She couldn't any other way. She can help look after us while I am using up our savings.....?
As you all know, its easy to change ones mind on a weekly basis depending on who you've talked to and what you've read that week. This is where I am now and would really appreciate some feedback.
Thanks in advance...
Deno
I've been researching professional pilot training for the last 8 months. Been to flyer shows at Heathrow, read extensively here for months, visited several FTOs, spoken to many more and reckon I'm nearing a decision of where and how to proceed. If before having having done all this, someone had told me it would be so difficult deciding where to spend these vast sums of money, I wouldn't have believed them.
I hear what you have to say about training in the USA. I still remain optimistic though and am still searching for the perfect school.
This first post is really to see whether any of you would add insight to my plan.
My end objective is to have an JAA frozen ATPL with as many hours under the belt on completion as possible so that when job hunting in Europe I stand out from the large number of applicants with JAA fATPLs obtained with minimum hours.
I am currently thinking that to study full time and relocate to sunny California is a really attractive proposition. The weather is good, the air space is busy for training purposes and the cost of living over there is considerably cheaper than Oxford where I am currently.
First stage:- Obtain full FAA CPL ME...7 months...Say $ 35,000
Next:-
Do FAA Instructor ratings including Multi engine $ 10,000,
work for a period, working on the assumption that I could average 70 flight hours a month.
After 6 months that would be over 400 hrs instruction plus the CPL, so looking at over 600 hours obtained in 19 months.
Prehaps could do a distance learning ATPL theory course at the same time? Say $5,000,
Return to U.K, convert IR... Approx $ 10,000.
All done to an estimate of $60,000. I think this is realistic not including living. But that you've got to pay anywhere.
Not much cheaper than doing it in the U.K and prehaps as much as a year longer but with some distinct advantages.
1). Completion with over 600 hours.
2). Valuable training as an instructor, plus could work as an instructor in other ICAO countries.
3). Finish with dual licenses. Very handy?
4). Living costs are lower than in the U.K so we save there. (Just check out how much child care is in this country!!!)
5). The weather is a
site nicer there than it is here.6). I would be in the USA under a J-1 visa so my wife can work as well. She couldn't any other way. She can help look after us while I am using up our savings.....?
As you all know, its easy to change ones mind on a weekly basis depending on who you've talked to and what you've read that week. This is where I am now and would really appreciate some feedback.
Thanks in advance...
Deno
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Yes this is a good idea.
The extra hours would give you an advantage over the majority of 200 hour pilots.
One thing is, dont go for the cheapest flight training in the USA, you are only cheating yourself as the standards will be lower. Go to someplace like FlightSafety Academy, who have a great reputation throughout the world, for providing high class training.
Also I would aim for doing 12 months of instructing, get a few more hours than those 600. A j1 visa gives you 2 years in the USA, use it to its full!
Have you thought about doing your JAA ATPL exams before you go to the States, this way, when you get back you can convert quickly and get applying to the airlines whilst your flying standards are at their highest, if you know what I mean.
Good luck with what you choose.
The extra hours would give you an advantage over the majority of 200 hour pilots.
One thing is, dont go for the cheapest flight training in the USA, you are only cheating yourself as the standards will be lower. Go to someplace like FlightSafety Academy, who have a great reputation throughout the world, for providing high class training.
Also I would aim for doing 12 months of instructing, get a few more hours than those 600. A j1 visa gives you 2 years in the USA, use it to its full!
Have you thought about doing your JAA ATPL exams before you go to the States, this way, when you get back you can convert quickly and get applying to the airlines whilst your flying standards are at their highest, if you know what I mean.
Good luck with what you choose.
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The route you have said Deno is pretty much the same as the way I have ended up doing things. I'll be finishing up the MCC pretty soon with around 900 hours, dual rated.
I didn't set out to do it this way, I originally was going to do everything back home after the PPL and hour building. I fell in love with the weather and lifestyle in southern California and had a great time. I doubt it's been any cheaper this way, but I've got 3 times more experience than the average fATPL and had a great time during the way. I've had the privilege of flying all over the states and buzzed around Spain for the IR conversion.
I can't say if the extra experience will help me in getting that first job, who knows??? I'll let you know of the reception I get at interviews in the future.
Good luck
I didn't set out to do it this way, I originally was going to do everything back home after the PPL and hour building. I fell in love with the weather and lifestyle in southern California and had a great time. I doubt it's been any cheaper this way, but I've got 3 times more experience than the average fATPL and had a great time during the way. I've had the privilege of flying all over the states and buzzed around Spain for the IR conversion.
I can't say if the extra experience will help me in getting that first job, who knows??? I'll let you know of the reception I get at interviews in the future.
Good luck
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Anyone out there been to Scandanavian Air Academy?
Some feedback on SAA in San Diego would be great. They seem good on the phone.
Anyone with first hand experience??
Thanks in advance.
Deno
Anyone with first hand experience??
Thanks in advance.
Deno
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I did exactly what you want to do Deno, for exactly the same reasons. Based on my experiences I would still suggest that you don't train in the USA. First you have major visa hassles that I did not have. They are not as welcoming to foreign pilots as they used to be, often downright rude. Secondly, the J1 visa makes you vulnerable to exploitation. If your training provider does not like you for some reason they can prevent you from obtaining an instructor job. This means that you often have to bite your lip. My school screwed up my bills, claimed I owed them money I did not and made arbitrary changes to my training contract. When you want a job off them at the end of training your right to complaint is limited. This is made even more difficult being in a foreign country with different laws. The J1 allows them to grab you by the balls and that is bad news for you. On the training front, most US schools are running tight on instructors with any kind of experience, in particluar those able to teach instructor ratings. This may mean inferior training and possible delays, although there will be work for you when you're qualified. Yes you'll get hours as an instructor but what value are they in the UK? Many of the airlines that used to value instructional time in the past are now defunct (BA Regional) want low how guys who'll pay for TR's (Eastern & Logan) or take cadets from certain schools (FLYBE). Most jet operators are still out of your league with only piston time. The instructional experience opened up doors for me but only at dodgy charter outfits. The only decent door that opened up was BMI Regional who have always liked US trained guys with hours. The jet job I have lined up I could have got with 200hrs!
Next up, your costs are too low and you need to budget more. Let's have a look at them. Your US costs of $45,000 are sensible and I'm not going to argue. Having said that San Diego, is a very expensive city to live in! The conversion costs are way low:-
Yes, but you'll be working hard as an instructor and that will take more time than you think. You will need to budget £1000 examination fees + flights to the brushups + accomodation at the exam venues.
You missed out the CPL conversion as well! UK schools love doing these conversions because they tend to take loads of extra hours and they can milk you dry. Read the thread on conversions to JAA. Do you know that you will have to pay £1400 in examiner fees for these the CPL/IR and that if you fail you will end up paying again? One bloke who converted to JAA while I was doing my conversion went bankrupt because he had gone so many hours over budget. Oh and you forgot about the MCC which is another £2000. Also, this day and age you would be wise to budget for a Type Rating, the way things are going. £20,000 should do the trick. Budget for reduced pay for a while too.
I'm not having a go at you Deno; you sound like a good, sensible guy. I just want to pass on some wisdom learned the hard way. I think that you have probably budgeted half of what you might need. I paid in the low region of what I could have trained for in the UK, plus major aggravation in the process. Shipping the missus and kid half way across the world on a temporary basis to chase YOUR dream of being a pilot is a risky business that will affect their future. I'm sure you have that figured though; right? Anyway good luck with the training and best advice to all wanabees is to leave America to the Americans!
Next up, your costs are too low and you need to budget more. Let's have a look at them. Your US costs of $45,000 are sensible and I'm not going to argue. Having said that San Diego, is a very expensive city to live in! The conversion costs are way low:-
Prehaps could do a distance learning ATPL theory course at the same time? Say $5,000
Return to U.K, convert IR... Approx $ 10,000
I'm not having a go at you Deno; you sound like a good, sensible guy. I just want to pass on some wisdom learned the hard way. I think that you have probably budgeted half of what you might need. I paid in the low region of what I could have trained for in the UK, plus major aggravation in the process. Shipping the missus and kid half way across the world on a temporary basis to chase YOUR dream of being a pilot is a risky business that will affect their future. I'm sure you have that figured though; right? Anyway good luck with the training and best advice to all wanabees is to leave America to the Americans!
Join Date: Nov 2005
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JAA CPL in Florida
If a person was to get there JAA CPL at a Florida flight school !, would they find it hard to get an EU airline give them a F/O job???
Has anyone here got there JAA CPL at OBA?
Thanks guys,
Sean
Has anyone here got there JAA CPL at OBA?
Thanks guys,
Sean
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Oba Cpl
Few lads did it when I was there, Mr Thompson is not one for softly softly approaches, he is however, very experienced and althgough he didn't instruct me himself, you should be more than ready for Florida's CAA examiner, (Mr Keygrip I believe).
That and the fact its rather cheap!
Regards
Rossco
P.S Anyone there after Christmas is more than welcome to come side seat with myself, I could almost do with the company.
Should anything happen I'll not be going alone.
That and the fact its rather cheap!
Regards
Rossco
P.S Anyone there after Christmas is more than welcome to come side seat with myself, I could almost do with the company.
Should anything happen I'll not be going alone.
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This is really useful thanks. Is anyone else researching flight schools in Florida at the moment? I'm looking at Naples so any feedback or advice would be much appreciated. One thing in particular is how NAC run their groundschool, is it e-learning or predominantly teacher based? I'm only asking as I went to Jerez last week and was very impressed with their classroom and learning centre...
Cheers
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I-20 issue
Hey everybody,
Im just about to pay my sevis fee but have just noticed that my date of birth on the I-20 form is off by a single day. Do you guys thing that would be an issue? Should i request another I-20 and postpone my embassy visit? Thanks
Im just about to pay my sevis fee but have just noticed that my date of birth on the I-20 form is off by a single day. Do you guys thing that would be an issue? Should i request another I-20 and postpone my embassy visit? Thanks