Multi Crew Pilot Licence (MCL)
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What's the point of having 737 stamped in your (somewhat empty) logbook after 6 weeks from scratch when it won't allow you to take a tiger moth out, or to fly recreationally with yourfriends and family?
Wanting to become an airline pilot is great, but please don't rip the soul out of aviation whilst trying to get there. Flying should be done for passion and not merely for status. I've met too many of Mummy's little pilots recently who are financially able to train at a faster pace than others but frankly couldn't give two ****s about flying. These people are the sort who can't wait for the MCPL to become the norm. Which it must not!
Wanting to become an airline pilot is great, but please don't rip the soul out of aviation whilst trying to get there. Flying should be done for passion and not merely for status. I've met too many of Mummy's little pilots recently who are financially able to train at a faster pace than others but frankly couldn't give two ****s about flying. These people are the sort who can't wait for the MCPL to become the norm. Which it must not!
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Nice one D ' vay I could not have said it better. 
I started flying first and foremost because it was a passion of mine, so being paid to do it is just an added bonus! My theory is if the system aint broke then dont fix it!
The Cav
I started flying first and foremost because it was a passion of mine, so being paid to do it is just an added bonus! My theory is if the system aint broke then dont fix it!The Cav
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Don't get me wrong, there's still room for a passion for flying, but never forget that this is a profession, not a hobby. The licencing and training procedures are not there for your enjoyment, they are there to prepare people to do a job of work; nothing more nor less. By all means go and fly for fun, and learn appropriately. This forum is not about that process.
Scroggs
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Phased trials have begun in China and Australia with flt schools and TRTOs offering the MPL to partner airlines based on the success of this trial run the complete ICAO MPL will be submitted for approvals.
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MPL not yet started
Yes some experiments are under preparation in SE Asia and clearly the target seems to be the Chinese Market.
1 To my knowledge ICAO will introduce the MPL the 23 November. So nobody is officially training on the MPL at the present time but certainly ready to do itin few weeks
2. An interesting position is IFALPA one on the topic. It must be read by everybody.
3. It appears that if the MPL is done correctly it will be more expansive than the traditional training.
4. Already two issues are surfacing:
- The lack of exposition to Communications in a real environment and this is an important point as we know a significative amount of accidents is due to misunderstanding Ground- AIR or AIR-AIR. The simulator training cannot provides such an exposure with a real time situation
- stress and real situation management; if the situation is not real, our subconscient knows it. we are not so sensitive to stress in a simulator as we can be in an aircraft, no randow event can suddenly affect our well being. ... lack of maturation is the consequence
5. The MCL (or MPL) will be enforced differently depending on the countries. Most of countries are serious about that, but unfortunately, from time to time, the local administration is not sufficiently strong to ensure the MPL will be correctly implemented. IFALPA has underlined those aspects.
6. I know some Major European Airlines are following very closely this issue and that a task Force is implemted in order to survey what is happening. Some countries are very reserved on this new licence,....
To be followed
1 To my knowledge ICAO will introduce the MPL the 23 November. So nobody is officially training on the MPL at the present time but certainly ready to do itin few weeks
2. An interesting position is IFALPA one on the topic. It must be read by everybody.
3. It appears that if the MPL is done correctly it will be more expansive than the traditional training.
4. Already two issues are surfacing:
- The lack of exposition to Communications in a real environment and this is an important point as we know a significative amount of accidents is due to misunderstanding Ground- AIR or AIR-AIR. The simulator training cannot provides such an exposure with a real time situation
- stress and real situation management; if the situation is not real, our subconscient knows it. we are not so sensitive to stress in a simulator as we can be in an aircraft, no randow event can suddenly affect our well being. ... lack of maturation is the consequence
5. The MCL (or MPL) will be enforced differently depending on the countries. Most of countries are serious about that, but unfortunately, from time to time, the local administration is not sufficiently strong to ensure the MPL will be correctly implemented. IFALPA has underlined those aspects.
6. I know some Major European Airlines are following very closely this issue and that a task Force is implemted in order to survey what is happening. Some countries are very reserved on this new licence,....
To be followed
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I wouldn't be so sure about that!
This may make you sick, but surely you have to accept that there may be people out there who have no real interest in flying a tiger moth but feel very passionate about flying a jet.
Also, would you not accept the argument that you should be able to obtain a licence for whatever category you wish? Is it wrong that a person can learn to drive a lorry without having to hold a licence to drive a car first? Anyway obtaining a PPL would hardly be a taxing task should you wish to flying recreationally as well.
I can think of numerous points that would help support an argument that the system is broke, or somewhat flawed and inefficient at the very least.
Also, would you not accept the argument that you should be able to obtain a licence for whatever category you wish? Is it wrong that a person can learn to drive a lorry without having to hold a licence to drive a car first? Anyway obtaining a PPL would hardly be a taxing task should you wish to flying recreationally as well.
I can think of numerous points that would help support an argument that the system is broke, or somewhat flawed and inefficient at the very least.
Last edited by Based; 19th Oct 2006 at 12:36.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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I think we are missing an opportunity:
Not everything is bad in the MPL:
- Threat Error Management, we should study and introduce it in the Standard Training
- More simulator and less Cross country, but not to the MPL extent
In the current MPL version, I personnally think it is too much imbalanced, but we should have modified the basic CPL/IR training taking into account some new ideas. In its current version., with the obvious push of the FFS manufacturer...the MPL seems too much mercantile to be honest.
Not everything is bad in the MPL:
- Threat Error Management, we should study and introduce it in the Standard Training
- More simulator and less Cross country, but not to the MPL extent
In the current MPL version, I personnally think it is too much imbalanced, but we should have modified the basic CPL/IR training taking into account some new ideas. In its current version., with the obvious push of the FFS manufacturer...the MPL seems too much mercantile to be honest.
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MPL - Multi Pilot Lisence
A new lisence witch is to be implementet from this winter.
Basicly you follow a integratet course with standard ATPL to start with, then specalize in multipilot operations, ending up with a MPL. (No CPL or MEIR, just MPL with multipilot IR.)
240h TT when finished, including a typerating.
This is something most airliners has aked for for a long time, but the big question is: Are any airliners ready for it? Is this lisence as welcomed as they say considering all the conservative people in the buisiness???
If anyone has any insight information it would be much appreciated!
regards
snuble
(I don't want to start the neverending debate about selffunded typeratings. This has nothing to do with that part.)
I could'n find any info on mpl with the search function..
Basicly you follow a integratet course with standard ATPL to start with, then specalize in multipilot operations, ending up with a MPL. (No CPL or MEIR, just MPL with multipilot IR.)
240h TT when finished, including a typerating.
This is something most airliners has aked for for a long time, but the big question is: Are any airliners ready for it? Is this lisence as welcomed as they say considering all the conservative people in the buisiness???
If anyone has any insight information it would be much appreciated!
regards
snuble
(I don't want to start the neverending debate about selffunded typeratings. This has nothing to do with that part.)
I could'n find any info on mpl with the search function..
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No, it doesn't. What explains it is that the search engine within the UBB software will not search for words or acronyms of three letters or less. Had you searched for 'multi' you would have found this thread - and realised that it had been a topic of conversation for some time. Had you opened your search to the whole site (What?! There are other forums here???), you might also have come across this topic, where the South Africans (who appear to feel that they invented aviation!) are agonising over the same licence - even though there are no proposals to adopt it in South Africa
.
Scroggs
.Scroggs
N4790P
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CAE is very active in the SE Asia, lobbying with SIA and negotiating with Langkawi. They have already approached the Malaysian DCA on the MPL. Mektronic is present in Beijing. Alteon/ Jeppesen is also turning around
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Seattle, Washington, October 24, 2006 – In preparation for Alteon Training’s Multi-Crew Pilot License (MPL) beta test in Australia, four instructors, members of the Airline Academy of Australia, complete their training at the Galvin Flying School at Boeing Field. Once back in Australia, the four will begin training the first cadets in Alteon’s MPL beta test program in Brisbane. Developed by ICAO, MPL was designed to develop-airline qualified pilots more efficiently and effectively than traditional methods. The four pilots (from right to left are: Peter Shire, Paul Toomey, Peter Griffiths and James Perry.
"The INTRODUCER"
Is there any reason for airline pilots to go solo anymore?
Boeing/Alteon and ICAO don't think so.
So what is it? Just a 'rite of passage' or does it actually have practical significance?
So what is it? Just a 'rite of passage' or does it actually have practical significance?
A first solo is better achieved in a Cessna 152 than it is in a Boeing or Airbus with a few hundred people strapped to it. Pilot incaps do happen. I can't see the regulators every allowing a training scheme that didn't have a first solo.
Cheers
WWW
Cheers
WWW
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G'day!
I agree with a few of the earlier posts. For example seems more like a licence geared towards jet cadets rather than your mondular self funded wannabee. Because, if the MPL was the only course on offer, there would be a lot less pilots graduating every year. The reason being, most wannabees cannot afford an integrated course, and I struggle to think how they would develop a modular MPL!?!
Question I have is Joe Bloggs with his MPL and 2000 hours jet more qualified than myself wih a regular ATPL and 2000 jet? What I mean is during an interview when it comes down to the crunch of who is best, is Joe Bloggs going to be picked for having the MPL?
Before I get slated for waking up this post again, there were a few posts on MPL developments occuring towards the end of november, and was wandering if any more developments have occurred.
WJ
I agree with a few of the earlier posts. For example seems more like a licence geared towards jet cadets rather than your mondular self funded wannabee. Because, if the MPL was the only course on offer, there would be a lot less pilots graduating every year. The reason being, most wannabees cannot afford an integrated course, and I struggle to think how they would develop a modular MPL!?!
Question I have is Joe Bloggs with his MPL and 2000 hours jet more qualified than myself wih a regular ATPL and 2000 jet? What I mean is during an interview when it comes down to the crunch of who is best, is Joe Bloggs going to be picked for having the MPL?
Before I get slated for waking up this post again, there were a few posts on MPL developments occuring towards the end of november, and was wandering if any more developments have occurred.
WJ
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Any schools that offer multi-crew pilots license course.
Hi guys! 
Do you know if there are any schools in the US that offer this type of course? Or is it too early to ask? Since this a new thing.
As quoted from this website:
http://www.atwonline.com/channels/sa...articleID=1428
"The MPL would see trainees moving into the right seat of high-performance jet transports with just 240 hr. of instruction. Of this, only between 60 and 120 hr. might actually be in the air and the student would have performed just 12 takeoffs and landings in the type he or she is to fly. The MPL is designed to bypass the training for the current commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating and let the trainee head directly for the "frozen" airline transport pilot license."
This sounds very interesting. Some may see it as a short cut others may see it as an opportunity to fly the big jets as soon as one can.
What do you guys think?
Do you know if there are any schools in the US that offer this type of course? Or is it too early to ask? Since this a new thing.
As quoted from this website:
http://www.atwonline.com/channels/sa...articleID=1428
"The MPL would see trainees moving into the right seat of high-performance jet transports with just 240 hr. of instruction. Of this, only between 60 and 120 hr. might actually be in the air and the student would have performed just 12 takeoffs and landings in the type he or she is to fly. The MPL is designed to bypass the training for the current commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating and let the trainee head directly for the "frozen" airline transport pilot license."
This sounds very interesting. Some may see it as a short cut others may see it as an opportunity to fly the big jets as soon as one can.
What do you guys think?
It's an utter crock!
The minimum should be to do the current CPL and MEP Class Ratings in real aircraft; although it is perhaps fair enough for the rest of the MPL course to be flown in simulators until the base check.
Several airline captains have already stated that MPL holding co-pilots on their flight decks will never be permitted to handle the aircraft during take-off and landing.
The minimum should be to do the current CPL and MEP Class Ratings in real aircraft; although it is perhaps fair enough for the rest of the MPL course to be flown in simulators until the base check.
Several airline captains have already stated that MPL holding co-pilots on their flight decks will never be permitted to handle the aircraft during take-off and landing.