Training in Spain
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Andalusia
Age: 54
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Thanks for the replies. At last - a clear answer to this questiion!!!
I respond as follows:
too_sleepy - Option 3 sounds like the way to go. You are very correct - flight training europe in Jerez, although the perfect option (they do a nice CPL/ME/IR combined course for continuity) but the price tag is in excess of 27,000 euros.
Bertie Bassett - very infortmative - thanks alot!! This is exactly what I thought. Question for you - if you did the ATPL exams in UK, how did a Spanish FTO accept your UK exam passes as exemption from IR theory (before doing the CPL)?
The only way I could see doing this would be to do a CAA/JAA CPL and then adding the Spanish IR rating to the licence.
However, someone in the Spanish CAA (DGAC) told me that they could not add any ratings (IR, FI) to a JAA licence issued outside Spain, and that you would have to do the change over - this does not make any sense - have you had experience of this???
Thanks again.
jerezflyer
I respond as follows:
too_sleepy - Option 3 sounds like the way to go. You are very correct - flight training europe in Jerez, although the perfect option (they do a nice CPL/ME/IR combined course for continuity) but the price tag is in excess of 27,000 euros.
Bertie Bassett - very infortmative - thanks alot!! This is exactly what I thought. Question for you - if you did the ATPL exams in UK, how did a Spanish FTO accept your UK exam passes as exemption from IR theory (before doing the CPL)?
The only way I could see doing this would be to do a CAA/JAA CPL and then adding the Spanish IR rating to the licence.
However, someone in the Spanish CAA (DGAC) told me that they could not add any ratings (IR, FI) to a JAA licence issued outside Spain, and that you would have to do the change over - this does not make any sense - have you had experience of this???
Thanks again.
jerezflyer
Join Date: Sep 2003
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jerezflyer
Question for you - if you did the ATPL exams in UK, how did a Spanish FTO accept your UK exam passes as exemption from IR theory (before doing the CPL)?
The Spanish FTO just took a photocopy of my UK ATPL results for their records. They were not particularly interested in which JAA State the exams had been sat, only that I had passed either the JAA IR or JAA ATPL exams. The FTO does not need to know which JAA State will finally issue the IR rating.
The only way I could see doing this would be to do a CAA/JAA CPL and then adding the Spanish IR rating to the licence.
Yes, if you have sat the UK JAA ATPL exams then you could either add the JAA IR (done in Spain) to your CAA/UK JAA CPL or to your CAA/UK JAA PPL.
However, someone in the Spanish CAA (DGAC) told me that they could not add any ratings (IR, FI) to a JAA licence issued outside Spain, and that you would have to do the change over - this does not make any sense - have you had experience of this???
This comes down to the State of Licence Issue thing again. I have a UK issued PPL so only the UK CAA can add ratings to it, even if these ratings have been done in other JAA countries. The Spanish DGAC could not add a JAA IR done in Spain on to a UK PPL/CPL.
As redout mentions above "You basically HAVE TO do your 14 ATPL exams under the same authority as your CPL." In addition, only the same authority as your CPL can add ratings to your licence (even if done in other JAA countries).
Clear as mud?
Question for you - if you did the ATPL exams in UK, how did a Spanish FTO accept your UK exam passes as exemption from IR theory (before doing the CPL)?
The Spanish FTO just took a photocopy of my UK ATPL results for their records. They were not particularly interested in which JAA State the exams had been sat, only that I had passed either the JAA IR or JAA ATPL exams. The FTO does not need to know which JAA State will finally issue the IR rating.
The only way I could see doing this would be to do a CAA/JAA CPL and then adding the Spanish IR rating to the licence.
Yes, if you have sat the UK JAA ATPL exams then you could either add the JAA IR (done in Spain) to your CAA/UK JAA CPL or to your CAA/UK JAA PPL.
However, someone in the Spanish CAA (DGAC) told me that they could not add any ratings (IR, FI) to a JAA licence issued outside Spain, and that you would have to do the change over - this does not make any sense - have you had experience of this???
This comes down to the State of Licence Issue thing again. I have a UK issued PPL so only the UK CAA can add ratings to it, even if these ratings have been done in other JAA countries. The Spanish DGAC could not add a JAA IR done in Spain on to a UK PPL/CPL.
As redout mentions above "You basically HAVE TO do your 14 ATPL exams under the same authority as your CPL." In addition, only the same authority as your CPL can add ratings to your licence (even if done in other JAA countries).
Clear as mud?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: manchester UK
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give aeromadid a call. that is whee i am doing my ATPLs at the moment. Do all your training here in spain , then just get your licence reissued to a UK licence. and save a packet in the proccess!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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i am at Aeromadrid at the moment, arrguably the best flight school in spain, its very good. i have also done some hours at Aerofan, now this place is mega cheap!!! have a look at aerofanfto.com
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Do you speak spanish?
check this site:
http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CAST...S/default2.htm
it's from spanish caa.
Good luck,
Ricardo
check this site:
http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CAST...S/default2.htm
it's from spanish caa.
Good luck,
Ricardo
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bristol
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maybe going to spain for IR conversion?
Hi
I,ve just read the replies from Turkish 777's thread on doing his FAA IR conversion in the uk and the general consensus seems to be for him not to do it in the uk and take advantage of the cheaper prices in spain.
My situation is that this has now confused me as what to do with my FAA IR conversion and i am supposed to be starting it on Feb 6th and paying my school in the UK a deposit for the course by the end of this week.Due to this i would greatly appreciate more of your opinions on my options.This is my position:
My aim is to get a job based in the UK flying corporate/airlines
Have quite recently done my JAR CPL in Florida
Did my FAA PPL/ IR in California about 5 years ago(so quite rusty,apart from CPL syllabus)
My only flying in the UK has been about 5 hours pottering about in a pa 28.
I think that i will probably need to do an FI on completion of IR for hour building so could obviously gain a fair amount of experience of flying in the UK instructing.
I would appreciate your views on what i should do.Either pack my bags and head south or stick with Bristol flying centre and pay the higher prices and gain the experience of flying in UK airspace??
I,ve just read the replies from Turkish 777's thread on doing his FAA IR conversion in the uk and the general consensus seems to be for him not to do it in the uk and take advantage of the cheaper prices in spain.
My situation is that this has now confused me as what to do with my FAA IR conversion and i am supposed to be starting it on Feb 6th and paying my school in the UK a deposit for the course by the end of this week.Due to this i would greatly appreciate more of your opinions on my options.This is my position:
My aim is to get a job based in the UK flying corporate/airlines
Have quite recently done my JAR CPL in Florida
Did my FAA PPL/ IR in California about 5 years ago(so quite rusty,apart from CPL syllabus)
My only flying in the UK has been about 5 hours pottering about in a pa 28.
I think that i will probably need to do an FI on completion of IR for hour building so could obviously gain a fair amount of experience of flying in the UK instructing.
I would appreciate your views on what i should do.Either pack my bags and head south or stick with Bristol flying centre and pay the higher prices and gain the experience of flying in UK airspace??
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: maybe going to spain for IR conversion?
scew the uk I say, dont pay the CAA any more money for their pension funds!
I cant see why an employer would see it as any different as long as its a JAR rating, thats the whole point of being a european isnt it?
I cant see why an employer would see it as any different as long as its a JAR rating, thats the whole point of being a european isnt it?
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Devon
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3 weeks in sunny spain (+ an mcc) partner wanted
Hi, I am looking for a partner for an MCC course in Jerez, starting on the 27th Feb.
The cost is inclusive of accomodation and food and the flights direct from stanstead start from £12.
I am currently booked on the course but cannot attend unless a partner is found.
I also am interested if anyone has any comments on the MCC in Jerez?
It works out cheaper than the majority of full motion courses in the UK as it includes full board. It also is in southern spain so after 18 months of hard work, it would be a bit of a holiday (beer 65 pence a pint!!!)
anyone interested please email me or reply on here.
[email protected]
for more infomation go to http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/
many thanks
Chris
The cost is inclusive of accomodation and food and the flights direct from stanstead start from £12.
I am currently booked on the course but cannot attend unless a partner is found.
I also am interested if anyone has any comments on the MCC in Jerez?
It works out cheaper than the majority of full motion courses in the UK as it includes full board. It also is in southern spain so after 18 months of hard work, it would be a bit of a holiday (beer 65 pence a pint!!!)
anyone interested please email me or reply on here.
[email protected]
for more infomation go to http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/
many thanks
Chris
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
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To make things more complex i have receivedthe following e-mail in answer to my questions:
Dear Mr xxx
Thank you for your e-mail dated 2nd March 2004.
As you are currently the holder of a UK JAR-FCL PPL(A), the UK is the State
of Licence issue. You state in your e-mail that it is your intention to
train towards a professional licence in other JAA States. Firstly, you need
to establish who will be the State of Licence issue, the UK or another JAA
State such as Spain or the Netherlands where you may well undertake your
training.
JAR-FCL 1.065 as detailed in LASORS mentions that training and testing
completed in other JAA Member States may be allowable subject to a prior
agreement between the Authorities of the JAA Member States concerned.
However, some JAA States are still insisting that all requirements are met
in one State.
If the UK is going to be the State of Licence issue then we will generally
accept training and testing completed in other full JAA Member States
providing there is an agreement and that we are satisfied that ALL training
and testing is in accordance with JAR-FCL.
We have received other enquiries on this subject but mainly from individuals
who wish to complete their training in one other JAA State and not several
like you intend. I am assuming that you wish the UK to be the State of
Licence issue, therefore before you commence your training there are a
number of issues that you need to be aware of.
1. There is a procedure to convert your Dutch JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical
certificate to a UK issued JAR-FCL Class 1 as detailed on our medical
departments website, see link below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/med/default.asp?page=2576
2. If you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in Spain you will
need an agreement between the UK CAA and the Spanish Authority. We would
have no objection to this if we are the State of Licence issue but would
need written confirmation from the Spanish agreeing to this arrangement. If
you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in the US then this will
need to be at a JAA approved FTO, and not an FAA approved school.
3. If you intend to complete your ATPL theory in the Netherlands then again
if we are the State of licence issue, we would accept a valid pass in the
JAR-FCL examinations. We have an arrangement with the Dutch Authorities that
we will not require their permission, they are in agreement as long as we
are the State of licence issue.
4. The IR and ME will be classified as additional ratings once you have been
issued with a JAR-CPL(A) therefore these may be completed in any other fully
approved JAA member State. The MCC can either be taken as part of an JAA
approved type rating course for a multi-pilot type or a standalone approved
course.
As mentioned earlier, the above is based on the UK being the State of
Licence issue, however If you intend to have your licence issued by another
JAA Member State then an agreement will need to be made with those States
where you complete your training to ensure that they at the end of the day
be willing to issue your licence.
I hope that the above has answered your enquiry.
Thank you for your e-mail dated 2nd March 2004.
As you are currently the holder of a UK JAR-FCL PPL(A), the UK is the State
of Licence issue. You state in your e-mail that it is your intention to
train towards a professional licence in other JAA States. Firstly, you need
to establish who will be the State of Licence issue, the UK or another JAA
State such as Spain or the Netherlands where you may well undertake your
training.
JAR-FCL 1.065 as detailed in LASORS mentions that training and testing
completed in other JAA Member States may be allowable subject to a prior
agreement between the Authorities of the JAA Member States concerned.
However, some JAA States are still insisting that all requirements are met
in one State.
If the UK is going to be the State of Licence issue then we will generally
accept training and testing completed in other full JAA Member States
providing there is an agreement and that we are satisfied that ALL training
and testing is in accordance with JAR-FCL.
We have received other enquiries on this subject but mainly from individuals
who wish to complete their training in one other JAA State and not several
like you intend. I am assuming that you wish the UK to be the State of
Licence issue, therefore before you commence your training there are a
number of issues that you need to be aware of.
1. There is a procedure to convert your Dutch JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical
certificate to a UK issued JAR-FCL Class 1 as detailed on our medical
departments website, see link below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/med/default.asp?page=2576
2. If you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in Spain you will
need an agreement between the UK CAA and the Spanish Authority. We would
have no objection to this if we are the State of Licence issue but would
need written confirmation from the Spanish agreeing to this arrangement. If
you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in the US then this will
need to be at a JAA approved FTO, and not an FAA approved school.
3. If you intend to complete your ATPL theory in the Netherlands then again
if we are the State of licence issue, we would accept a valid pass in the
JAR-FCL examinations. We have an arrangement with the Dutch Authorities that
we will not require their permission, they are in agreement as long as we
are the State of licence issue.
4. The IR and ME will be classified as additional ratings once you have been
issued with a JAR-CPL(A) therefore these may be completed in any other fully
approved JAA member State. The MCC can either be taken as part of an JAA
approved type rating course for a multi-pilot type or a standalone approved
course.
As mentioned earlier, the above is based on the UK being the State of
Licence issue, however If you intend to have your licence issued by another
JAA Member State then an agreement will need to be made with those States
where you complete your training to ensure that they at the end of the day
be willing to issue your licence.
I hope that the above has answered your enquiry.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Holland
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Bertie, could you tell us which Spanish FTO you were?
These are very interesting issue's for many of us I suppose.
It even looks like an indication of some very careful kind of cooperation between JAA states...
Really, before EASA is going to be in charge these are wonderful developments
These are very interesting issue's for many of us I suppose.
It even looks like an indication of some very careful kind of cooperation between JAA states...
Really, before EASA is going to be in charge these are wonderful developments
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Hi Bertie Bassett
You say "You can do a rating at any JAA Approved FTO".
So,as long as the TRTO is JAA approved, no objection should be expected from the JAA authority who issued the license and hence will add the rating, right?
I'm asking you this because I've heard that Spain requires you to produce copies of:
- TRTO certificate
- TRI's license
- TRE's license
Why the 2 latters?
There is also a CAA list of approved FTOs and TRTOs.
Take Randhem for instance. They claim to be a JAA TRTO recognized by the UK CAA but are not on the CAA list
JeroenC
What's the CAA email address to inquire about a change of state of issue
Thanks
You say "You can do a rating at any JAA Approved FTO".
So,as long as the TRTO is JAA approved, no objection should be expected from the JAA authority who issued the license and hence will add the rating, right?
I'm asking you this because I've heard that Spain requires you to produce copies of:
- TRTO certificate
- TRI's license
- TRE's license
Why the 2 latters?
There is also a CAA list of approved FTOs and TRTOs.
Take Randhem for instance. They claim to be a JAA TRTO recognized by the UK CAA but are not on the CAA list
JeroenC
What's the CAA email address to inquire about a change of state of issue
Thanks
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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thanks JeroenC
.
Trislander, AENA ain´t the Spanish CAA. AENA manages airports and air traffic services.
Both French and Spanish CAAs are DGAC. Just wanted to let you know
.
Trislander, AENA ain´t the Spanish CAA. AENA manages airports and air traffic services.
Both French and Spanish CAAs are DGAC. Just wanted to let you know
Join Date: Jan 2006
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traing
Contacted CAA yesterday
Spoke to a very helpful gent who explained the ins and out and directed me to their site with an approved list of flight schools. Bottom line if they not on the list they not approved. Don't go there.
follow this link http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1211
With regards to doing flight training in Spain. Aerofan is not approved. As yet they have not applied for approval, and it doesn't look like they going to even try, after contacting them, I was told I must arrange it myself with the UK CAA. Fat chance of that happening!
You can do it in Jeres, they are approved and there is an agreement in place with UK CAA.
hope this helps
Spoke to a very helpful gent who explained the ins and out and directed me to their site with an approved list of flight schools. Bottom line if they not on the list they not approved. Don't go there.
follow this link http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1211
With regards to doing flight training in Spain. Aerofan is not approved. As yet they have not applied for approval, and it doesn't look like they going to even try, after contacting them, I was told I must arrange it myself with the UK CAA. Fat chance of that happening!
You can do it in Jeres, they are approved and there is an agreement in place with UK CAA.
hope this helps
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Much to my disappointment there are no more modular courses running at Jerez this year.
Actually there is one starting March 20th but it is already full. And that's it til next winter due to lots of airline integrated courses going thru this summer.
UK it is then!
Think I've found a good school here tho.
All the best to everyone going for it this summer.
Tri
Actually there is one starting March 20th but it is already full. And that's it til next winter due to lots of airline integrated courses going thru this summer.
UK it is then!
Think I've found a good school here tho.All the best to everyone going for it this summer.
Tri