Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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Hello
I understand that I am most likely being a huge pain, and being one of those annoying newbies who comes on and expects his question answered, so I'm sorry about that.
But my question is, I'm currently doing maths at A level, and I hate it. I am awful at it (well, I think so. And I am compared to many of my peers in the same class). Somehow (dont ask me how) I managed to get an A* at Maths in GCSE, but now, at A level, I'm behind almost everyone in my class (although it is top set).
Obviously, I am posting this here because I want to be an airline pilot. I am currently taking my PPL and soloed on my 16th birthday, so flying experience should (hopefully) be easier to get than these A levels.
Anyway, back to the question in hand. What should I do? I am doing 4 A levels at the moment: Physics, Computing, Geography and, of course, the dreaded Mathematics (plus general studies, but that doesnt really count as a proper A level). I really enjoy the first 3 subjects, and feel I am quite strong and confident in them, but the latter is causing me issues, as I dont understand half of the stuff, such as Calculus, for example. If I need this to be an airline pilot, then oh dear, but I'm usually quite happy with things such as percentages, arithmetic and the like.
Now, I have an assessment in all of my subjects in under a fortnight. If I do badly in maths, given the choice, should I continue with it, or drop it? If I continue, it will mean I'd have at least an AS level in maths, although it may not be a good one. If I drop it, I may be able to boost marks in my other subjects, and also be happier (no stress with maths). However, I really want a job with the airlines. So would a (possibly poor) A level in maths do much for me? Or are my other A levels good enough for airlines to want me? I've read airlines prefer physics and maths, but it doesnt say they are required. So if I got a good A level in Physics, as well as Geography and Computing, would that be satisfactory?
I have read most of the pages on this topic, but have found mixed responses; some say you should do what the airlines want, or else you will be rejected. Others say you can still get a job if you just do the subjects you are interested in.
Thankyou so much for your help.
I understand that I am most likely being a huge pain, and being one of those annoying newbies who comes on and expects his question answered, so I'm sorry about that.
But my question is, I'm currently doing maths at A level, and I hate it. I am awful at it (well, I think so. And I am compared to many of my peers in the same class). Somehow (dont ask me how) I managed to get an A* at Maths in GCSE, but now, at A level, I'm behind almost everyone in my class (although it is top set).
Obviously, I am posting this here because I want to be an airline pilot. I am currently taking my PPL and soloed on my 16th birthday, so flying experience should (hopefully) be easier to get than these A levels.
Anyway, back to the question in hand. What should I do? I am doing 4 A levels at the moment: Physics, Computing, Geography and, of course, the dreaded Mathematics (plus general studies, but that doesnt really count as a proper A level). I really enjoy the first 3 subjects, and feel I am quite strong and confident in them, but the latter is causing me issues, as I dont understand half of the stuff, such as Calculus, for example. If I need this to be an airline pilot, then oh dear, but I'm usually quite happy with things such as percentages, arithmetic and the like.
Now, I have an assessment in all of my subjects in under a fortnight. If I do badly in maths, given the choice, should I continue with it, or drop it? If I continue, it will mean I'd have at least an AS level in maths, although it may not be a good one. If I drop it, I may be able to boost marks in my other subjects, and also be happier (no stress with maths). However, I really want a job with the airlines. So would a (possibly poor) A level in maths do much for me? Or are my other A levels good enough for airlines to want me? I've read airlines prefer physics and maths, but it doesnt say they are required. So if I got a good A level in Physics, as well as Geography and Computing, would that be satisfactory?
I have read most of the pages on this topic, but have found mixed responses; some say you should do what the airlines want, or else you will be rejected. Others say you can still get a job if you just do the subjects you are interested in.
Thankyou so much for your help.
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You could always do this and kill 2 birds with 1 stone an all that...
http://www.cabair.com/kingston/index.htm
http://www.cabair.com/kingston/index.htm
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Hi,
I at the moment and in my last year of college doing A levels and the following year I'm planning on doing joining the pilot school. I have at the moment done AS Levels in Maths, Physics and Spanish, and this year I'm doing Maths, Physics, Spanish and Business Studies. I live in Spain, but as I've heard about the poor situation here, I'll have to most probably apply to different airlines around Europe. Now, my question is that apart from having A levels, nowadays airlines do require having a University Degree, but what questions me is what university degree should I do and will it help me in any way? Also, is it necessary for me to do a Universtiy Degree to enter in an airline or are A levels, and the flying hours of course, enough? I want to know this because I don't want to waste time doing a 4 year degree wasting time.
Thanks.
I at the moment and in my last year of college doing A levels and the following year I'm planning on doing joining the pilot school. I have at the moment done AS Levels in Maths, Physics and Spanish, and this year I'm doing Maths, Physics, Spanish and Business Studies. I live in Spain, but as I've heard about the poor situation here, I'll have to most probably apply to different airlines around Europe. Now, my question is that apart from having A levels, nowadays airlines do require having a University Degree, but what questions me is what university degree should I do and will it help me in any way? Also, is it necessary for me to do a Universtiy Degree to enter in an airline or are A levels, and the flying hours of course, enough? I want to know this because I don't want to waste time doing a 4 year degree wasting time.
Thanks.
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Hey davidson2006,
I am going to assume you have zero knowledge on the routes into aviation, and try to give you a realistic look at your prospects from your stage.
Your A level choices should be purely based on the subjects you enjoy. Simple as that. If you prefer French to Maths, then choose French. Don't choose a subject that you think will land you on a flight deck in 5 years time, as it will not be in your best interests if you don't really like the subject, and you'll spend a miserable two years studying a subject which you may well do badly in. The best bit of advice to be given here is, do what you enjoy. It's the best way to succeed at A level. Work hard at school and get the best results you can; sounds like a no brainer, but when you come to job applications, in any field (flying or not), this is when these sort of things become important.
The things you're doing at school sound good as well. The ATC is a good chance to get involved with flying (military flying is the best in the world, no doubt about it). Do the gliding scholarship, and get as much flying as possible in the Tutor as you can. See at the end of it whether you are still as enthusiastic about it as you were before you ever stepped inside an aircraft.
One thing I would say is have you considered University? Many people leave school at A level or GCSE level and expect to walk straight through an ATPL course and on to British Airways. This is a naive expectation. University will do a lot to broaden your experiences, perhaps give you an idea about other possible career paths, as well as general life experience and maturity. Remember, airlines will be looking for someone with a sensible head on their shoulders, not just a 'fresh out of secondary school' bright eyed, if somewhat immature young lad. University also gives you a chance to develop important social and other skills, such as teamwork, leadership, and communication. All in all, good life experience. Also bear in mind the University Air Squadrons, a sort of follow on from the ATC. These can only be described as awesome fun - lots of flying, which you get paid for, the best instruction, and some great fun to be had. I know this from personal (current!) experience.
Things to avoid: rushing into things. ALWAYS plan things: don't expect to pay Oxford Aviation (or similiar company) 60,000 and expect a job straight up. Look at all your options (including whether aviation is right for you). Perhaps the best advice I can give you is to do the GAPAN aptitude tests at Cranwell ( google the word 'GAPAN'). This will give you the best indication of your suitability towards professional aviation as a career, and they will also give you more good advice. Lastly, check the CAA website for the medical standards required for Class 1 certification; important to make sure you can pass these important hurdles!
Of course, there's a lot more info to be had. Feel free to PM me, and look around the rest of this site. There's a LOT of useful info to be found in these hallowed pages!
Eoin
I am going to assume you have zero knowledge on the routes into aviation, and try to give you a realistic look at your prospects from your stage.
Your A level choices should be purely based on the subjects you enjoy. Simple as that. If you prefer French to Maths, then choose French. Don't choose a subject that you think will land you on a flight deck in 5 years time, as it will not be in your best interests if you don't really like the subject, and you'll spend a miserable two years studying a subject which you may well do badly in. The best bit of advice to be given here is, do what you enjoy. It's the best way to succeed at A level. Work hard at school and get the best results you can; sounds like a no brainer, but when you come to job applications, in any field (flying or not), this is when these sort of things become important.
The things you're doing at school sound good as well. The ATC is a good chance to get involved with flying (military flying is the best in the world, no doubt about it). Do the gliding scholarship, and get as much flying as possible in the Tutor as you can. See at the end of it whether you are still as enthusiastic about it as you were before you ever stepped inside an aircraft.
One thing I would say is have you considered University? Many people leave school at A level or GCSE level and expect to walk straight through an ATPL course and on to British Airways. This is a naive expectation. University will do a lot to broaden your experiences, perhaps give you an idea about other possible career paths, as well as general life experience and maturity. Remember, airlines will be looking for someone with a sensible head on their shoulders, not just a 'fresh out of secondary school' bright eyed, if somewhat immature young lad. University also gives you a chance to develop important social and other skills, such as teamwork, leadership, and communication. All in all, good life experience. Also bear in mind the University Air Squadrons, a sort of follow on from the ATC. These can only be described as awesome fun - lots of flying, which you get paid for, the best instruction, and some great fun to be had. I know this from personal (current!) experience.
Things to avoid: rushing into things. ALWAYS plan things: don't expect to pay Oxford Aviation (or similiar company) 60,000 and expect a job straight up. Look at all your options (including whether aviation is right for you). Perhaps the best advice I can give you is to do the GAPAN aptitude tests at Cranwell ( google the word 'GAPAN'). This will give you the best indication of your suitability towards professional aviation as a career, and they will also give you more good advice. Lastly, check the CAA website for the medical standards required for Class 1 certification; important to make sure you can pass these important hurdles!
Of course, there's a lot more info to be had. Feel free to PM me, and look around the rest of this site. There's a LOT of useful info to be found in these hallowed pages!
Eoin
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Your A level choices should be purely based on the subjects you enjoy. Simple as that. If you prefer French to Maths, then choose French. Don't choose a subject that you think will land you on a flight deck in 5 years time, as it will not be in your best interests if you don't really like the subject, and you'll spend a miserable two years studying a subject which you may well do badly in. The best bit of advice to be given here is, do what you enjoy. It's the best way to succeed at A level. Work hard at school and get the best results you can; sounds like a no brainer, but when you come to job applications, in any field (flying or not), this is when these sort of things become important.
Hovering AND talking
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I concur with Hour Builder, a good grounding in maths will help enormously with your ATPL ground school to the point where I would recommend Pure Maths and Applied Maths as separate A Levels!
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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I took Maths and Physics as A-levels, then obtained a BEng(hons) degree in Aerospace Engineering, and the ATPL theory is still hard.
Don't think a degree in business or French would have made the ATPL's any easier then I am finding them now
Don't think a degree in business or French would have made the ATPL's any easier then I am finding them now
Last edited by Hour Builder; 29th Oct 2006 at 11:07.
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And how much of the ATPL requires you to know how to integrate, partial differentiation or what the heck are complex numbers. How much of the ATPL requires you to understand thermodynamics or metal removal rates of a tungsten carbide drill!
The ATPL theory requires that you can add, subtract, multiply, divide, understand the basics of algebra and trigonometry. Nothing that is beyond any O level Maths students grasp.
If the guy wants to study pygmy and sumarian architecture for his A levels, then let him do what he enjoys and don't fill his head with scary stories of how hard the ATPL's are. It the quantity of knowledge that is daunting, not the quality.
The ATPL theory requires that you can add, subtract, multiply, divide, understand the basics of algebra and trigonometry. Nothing that is beyond any O level Maths students grasp.
If the guy wants to study pygmy and sumarian architecture for his A levels, then let him do what he enjoys and don't fill his head with scary stories of how hard the ATPL's are. It the quantity of knowledge that is daunting, not the quality.
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How much of the ATPL's requires a good knowledge of French?
I stated that having obtained the qualifications I have, the ATPL's are still tough, and not only in quantity.
If I took things I really enjoyed at school, I'd have some degree in Sports science, and all we are trying to say is that to have a good foundation for what is to come with the ATPL's, a good knowledge of Maths and Physics is needed.
I dont see how you can argue with that, perhaps you are a little out of touch, seeing as O-levels were replaced by GCSE's maybe 15-20 years ago.
I stated that having obtained the qualifications I have, the ATPL's are still tough, and not only in quantity.
If I took things I really enjoyed at school, I'd have some degree in Sports science, and all we are trying to say is that to have a good foundation for what is to come with the ATPL's, a good knowledge of Maths and Physics is needed.
I dont see how you can argue with that, perhaps you are a little out of touch, seeing as O-levels were replaced by GCSE's maybe 15-20 years ago.
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Choose subjects you enjoy, as long as you have decent grades in maths and science/physics GCSE, you should be alright. Dont go choosing subjects that you think are good for aviation but dont really enjoy, the two years of alevels will be a drag and pretty much $h*t. Trust me, i know! Go for subjects you enjoy and will excell in 
Keep yourself involved in team activites. I decided that i didnt want to leave alevels and go straight into flight school, i much thought it was best for me to go university, doing cumputer science, something which i am enjoying. I have got involved in cricket, played to county level (not anymore, one bad match
), and also have a level one coaching cert, so i coach the youngsters at my club back in london.
As much as i want to be a pilot, wise words have been said, dont rush into things, and plan what you wish to do.
Good luck for the future and your alevels.
Keep yourself involved in team activites. I decided that i didnt want to leave alevels and go straight into flight school, i much thought it was best for me to go university, doing cumputer science, something which i am enjoying. I have got involved in cricket, played to county level (not anymore, one bad match
), and also have a level one coaching cert, so i coach the youngsters at my club back in london.As much as i want to be a pilot, wise words have been said, dont rush into things, and plan what you wish to do.
Good luck for the future and your alevels.
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How much of the ATPL's requires a good knowledge of French?
A good working knowledge of French may help you when the French Air Traffic Controllers go on strike again!!!
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The shape of the ADF radio beam is called the "limacon" which in French means "small snail" and refers to the snail's shell. Thats the only reference to the French language in the ATPL's that I can make out.
A good working knowledge of French may help you when the French Air Traffic Controllers go on strike again!!!
A good working knowledge of French may help you when the French Air Traffic Controllers go on strike again!!!
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I made the mistake of studying A Levels which I thought would be useful, and didn't do as well as I could have done, so re-assessed and changed some subjects in my second year. I think that the ATPL groundschool teaches you everything you need to know for the exams - how well you do is mostly down to how much effort you are willing to put in. One person in my class left school at 16 and still did ok, although he stuggled getting back into revision after 6 years. As some posters have mentioned already it's the intensity and volume of information not the difficulty of it.
Davidson you definitely seem to have the motivation and I am sure you will get there - my point is that A Level subjects really don't matter, people just want to see you can apply yourself. I am certainly not the brightest tool in the toolbox but put my life on hold and slogged away for a 93% average - having done art based A levels. It can be done! Good luck
Davidson you definitely seem to have the motivation and I am sure you will get there - my point is that A Level subjects really don't matter, people just want to see you can apply yourself. I am certainly not the brightest tool in the toolbox but put my life on hold and slogged away for a 93% average - having done art based A levels. It can be done! Good luck
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I did not say you don't need an understanding of Maths and Physics, I said that you don't need A-levels in the subjects to get through the ATPL ground school. Basic arithmatic, algebra and trigonomtry is all that is required.
For the record, I did A-Levels in Maths and Physics, went to a very nice Uni and studied Mech Eng. And at no point in my ATPL's did I find any of it any use. I will state again, it's the volume of knowledge that is the crippling factor, not the content.
Looking back now, I think it would be nice to make a degree out of the ATPL subjects. Then you could go into much more depth with some of the subjects, especially with repsect to Met, POF. Come out three years later, aged 21 and ready to start flight training. Would stop the age old question ATPL or Uni that starts on this board once a week.
Oh, and Cabotage is another French word.
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Please also point out where I said you "need" A levels. I said I had them and still find it tough.
see if i use must mean I am right too
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Fine, you may not agree with me, and that's your right, but the level of maths and physics required is only up to GSCE, not A Level and certainly not degree level knowledge. So, it matters not a flying fig what A levels or degree you do, so you may as well do something you like.
Thats the point I am trying to make, nothing else
Thats the point I am trying to make, nothing else
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Not that I know, but does anyone know if having a degree more related to the aviation field, such as engineering etc actually helps when it comes to getting an interview for your first airline job.
Obviously, flying ability is going to determine whether someone gets the job, but I am talking about actually getting an interview. Does a degree stand out on a CV, and if so would a degree in engineering stand out more then some flower arranging degree?
If an employer has two CV's both with minimum JAR CPL/IR hours and one has a degree in engineering, and the other has no degree, or a degree non aviation related, which would they choose.
HB
Obviously, flying ability is going to determine whether someone gets the job, but I am talking about actually getting an interview. Does a degree stand out on a CV, and if so would a degree in engineering stand out more then some flower arranging degree?
If an employer has two CV's both with minimum JAR CPL/IR hours and one has a degree in engineering, and the other has no degree, or a degree non aviation related, which would they choose.
HB
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There was a study done by GAPAN, probably a bit old now, they asked airlines what they wanted and expected of their low houred applicants and education was about 7th on the list.