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Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)

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Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)

Old 15th Sep 2006, 14:52
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Uni or Directly to OATS

Very Good Point hehe
Always look on the brightside. Thanks
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Old 18th Sep 2006, 16:54
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School qualification requirements

Hello there!!

I was wondering if anybody on here could help me, but what school qualifications are needed to become a commercial pilot?

I know that GCSE's including mathematics (C grade or above) is necessary, but what about Physics at the same level? I also want to know, does it matter what A-levels you take, as long as you get an A-C grade pass?? I looked on the easyjet site, and it didn't mention any specific A-level subjects, just the passing grades, or does this change with the bigger carriers such as Iberia, B.A., SAS etc??
I ask this, because I am doing my A-levels in History, Govt and Politics and French - I already have my Spanish A-level... Would these still allow me to get a job in commercial aviation?

Thanks a lot,
George

Last edited by George_08; 18th Sep 2006 at 17:40. Reason: Forgot to add which A-levels I am doing
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Old 19th Sep 2006, 21:31
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I have to say "Yes" is does matter what A'Levels you take.

No matter what, or who says to you it doesnt matter, its does. All my college tutors say, nah it doesnt matter, pick what your good at. Its all rubbish and thats why i am taking my A'Levels again at 22.

If you apply to an Airline training scheme, they all ask for 2-3 A'Levels, they normally want Maths and Physics.

I came unstuck when i applied to CTC, they said no, so did FTE and OAT and Cabair with there airline schemes. Having the wrong A'Levels does however leave normal integrated training open.

Cabair would take me for a normal integrated scheme, but not for the FlyBE scheme, get that?

I am studying at Uni too, must admit, its not all its cracked up to be, i think when i have my A'Levels i will leave my degree and train with an airline scheme if there are any...

Degrees are not a waste of time, as if you loose your wings, you have a fall back plan/career. But i cant bare the thought of sitting for another three years in lectures when the job i want is sitting there, well more or less. I plan to do part time study to finish my degree of, takes 4-8 years to do, but if all goes well, in that time i wont need to call on it.

Also, i have figured my degree will cost around 9k per year, 9 x 3 is 27k, thats 50% of the fee for OAT give or take a few K.

Another thing is, an ATPL is a pro qualification right? I have a friend who is an Accountant, did no degree, but did his CIMA. He told me that the CIMA is regarded as higher than an accountancy degree, so the way i look at it, the ATPL should be seen as higher than a degree.
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Old 21st Sep 2006, 21:03
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Originally Posted by planecrazy.eu
Another thing is, an ATPL is a pro qualification right? I have a friend who is an Accountant, did no degree, but did his CIMA. He told me that the CIMA is regarded as higher than an accountancy degree, so the way i look at it, the ATPL should be seen as higher than a degree.
Academic accountancy is just completely different from professional qualifications - it is application of knowledge rather than learning and research. Equally the ATPL cannot be equated or even compared to a degree.
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 07:27
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It is apparently true that one or two of the 'mentored' quasi-sponsorship schemes these days are tending to specify the subjects they'd like you to have at A-level, though I don't currently have references to say who wants what. I shall get them, however. If one of these schemes is your aim, you have to jump through whatever hoops they put in front of you.

That said, there are many more ways to get into airlines. None, so far as I know, specify any academic qualifications for direct-entry candidates. Until they do, continue to choose your subjects on the basis of what you enjoy and what you think may be of most use to you.

As for the 'equivalency' of the ATPLs to a degree, dream on! The ATPLs are an exercise in memorising simplified facts for a standard exam. While there is a great quantity of learning involved, the quality of the knowledge gained and demonstrated is pretty poor, and involves absolutely no free thought, interpretation, research or original work.

Scroggs
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 12:03
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Out of interest then - do the schemes offered by Kingston, BCUC etc, that incorporate ATPL theory as part of the degree offer a "lower standard" of degree than other degrees? Or would you say that since they only make up part of a degree, this isn't true?

Just curious - no bone to pick!
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 12:16
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Firstly, don't quote the entire post above your own. What's the point? We can all read...

Secondly, the degree courses you mention are a commercially-driven exercise by the various establishments, as are many degrees nowadays. The addition of the ATPL theory study is intended as a value-added attraction to persuade you to invest your money at their university; it is not included as an exercise in academic rigour. I suspect that the inclusion of these exams actually makes it more difficult for the course designers to convince the appropriate authorities that the course is sufficiently academically rigorous to qualify for honours status. That said, there are many less demanding subjects at degree level these days!

Scroggs
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 13:33
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I never intended to state an ATPL is as good, or better than a degree in most cases. But if you take a look at thses new degree that lead to atpl.

You have BCUC, 3 years at Uni, studying ATPL modules and not alot else, so they are handing out a Degree for simply just doing an ATPL course.

I know that maybe you scroggs can answer this?

Who would you rather pic:

1) Airline Transport Pilot Degree with ATPL (3 years study of ATPL)
2) Integrated ATPL (14-16 months study)

I dont want to do the course down, but i do think that the degree holds no real value appart from its from a Uni.

I had a place at one of these ATPL and Degree schemes, i decided that it would be better to do an Engineering Degree and Modular ATPL's over three years, that way i get what i consider a "real" degree.

At the moment i am leaning towards stop dreaming of getting a degree and just getting the job i have wanted for as long as i can remember and just take the chance and go integrated and hope an Airline wants me.

So far i have found that OAT, FTE and CAT are strict about maths and physics A levels when applying for Airline Schemes, not the normal integrated schemes though. CTC "prefer" maths and physics but weather it makes a different is not know to me, all i know is that CTC dont recognise the BTEC Diplomas as 3 a'levels.

I am willing to jump to get on a scheme, i am taking Maths, Physics as well as Y1 of my Degree, if next summer i get though on a scheme if there are any around i will go for it, if i get rejected i will just do Y2 of Uni and try again the year after, if its No again i will do Y3 at uni and have a serious look at where i am going wrong or what i am doing wrong.
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 16:28
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Originally Posted by scroggs
As for the 'equivalency' of the ATPLs to a degree, dream on! The ATPLs are an exercise in memorising simplified facts for a standard exam. While there is a great quantity of learning involved, the quality of the knowledge gained and demonstrated is pretty poor, and involves absolutely no free thought, interpretation, research or original work.
Scroggs

I could not agree more and it has no comparison at all with engineering and say, construction.

If you take a civil engineering project or a landmark building, most of those represent one offs, unique in design and build and inevitably require application of deep and complex knowledge. If you want something to think about with that, think about the Gurkin building in London - a steel structure with every piece of glass unique for its position and designed to fit as the building compresses as more weight is hung on the exterior.

A good construction manager / director earns a handsome six figure sum these days but then they have to know and apply an awful lot more knowledge and skill than the average ATPL.

Automation will replace the ATPL sooner or later, thats just a matter of time for public acceptance but it won't replace the engineer. After all, it will be the engineer who will devise the systems to replace the pilots. Of course they already have will the unmanned vehicles being used by the military.
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 17:36
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please help

I am spanish, and all the educational system is totally different to hte one you guys have in england....

Could someone explain to me what means GSCE, A levels, B levels etc¿

Wich levels do you get during the last year at "high school"? (before going to college or Uni).

Please someone to enlighten me.... it is way confusing to me! Thank you and good luck with your career!

Ramon
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 18:23
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GCSE - exams taken at age 16. Normally about 8 to 10 subjects.

A Levels. Taken at 18, prior to university. Normally 3 subjects.

B Levels - never heard of them!

Scroggs
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Old 22nd Sep 2006, 18:29
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A levels

Thank you very much, sir!
only 3 A levels?? this subjects are additional to the last "high school" year? are they mandatory?
cheers, things are a bit more clear now!

regards from Spain
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Old 23rd Sep 2006, 07:36
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The A levels are coming in for some criticism. Many schools and students are opting to do the International Bacalaureat which has a much broader range.


The main difference between many degrees and the ATPL stuff is the amount of free thinking allowed. With the ATPL, the aim is to pass the exams, so questions such as why.....? usually elicit the answer in the order of "you wont get a qestion like that in the exam so dont bother".

As someone who went through university 30 years ago even on what was regarded as a vocational type of course, the why questions were always the best.

Remember, the aims and objectives of a degree course and the ATPL are different.

The ATPL is to do something specific - it has no role in developing the enquiring mind, set off the imagination and stuff like that - its to pass the exam.

The degree is as much about the training of the mind, learning research techniques, turning thoughts into arguments and then expressing them.

Frankly any good graduate should be able to into any professional activity and do well having a well trained mind, they have the tools to continue learning. Doing the ATPL will frustrate the hell out of them because of the "non" learning style of "learning".

The ATPL - learn by rote and continue to learn by rote. Learning as much as is required for the next test and that's it.

The best aviation degree courses are those on offer in many of the US universities where there is some real academic rigour as well as the learning to fly. Some are engineering led, others are aviation business management led.
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Old 24th Sep 2006, 18:11
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A-Levels 'dilemma'

Hello all first post and day on here,

I'm currently undergoing a mini 'dilemma', related to sixth form and A-Levels. At my current sixth form, I'm doing English Language, Applied Science and Computing. (And my maths GCSE again). However, I am not too keen on this sixth form, as it requires too much travelling each day which can be tired. BUT, if I have a better chance of gaining sponsorship doing these A-Level subjects, then I'm quite willing to stay there.

There's a sixth form in my town, which would require no bus journeys etc, however, there wasn't many subjects to do there, and I've chosen at my interview: Geography, History, Sociology and ICT.

I haven't left my other sixth form yet, and have been deciding all this weekend.

Problem is, would doing those A-Levels listed above at another sixth form hinder my chances of becoming a pilot, and gaining sponsorship? I'm willing to get a job to pay for myself, should I not get sponsorship, and I'm also wishing to go onto Uni to get a degree in Geography, should I go to this other sixth form.

If I stay in my current sixth form - Then I'll do something in computing. I enjoy both computers and Geography.

It's just very worrying, as becoming a pilot is my chosen career path - There's just no other job that seems as appealing!

Thanks all for your help, and sorry about the long post.


Stephen


P.S My dad has made me even more worried about going to this other sixth form, saying Geography, History, Sociology and ICT are 'neck-ended' subjects.



EDIT:
Nevermind, saw a similar post in this forum, which was replied to yesterday. Unsure whether to just put this in there or keep this post.

Last edited by StephenD; 24th Sep 2006 at 18:38.
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Old 24th Sep 2006, 19:50
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So in a nutshell, do the subjects that you're doing for A-Level really matter to become a pilot?

I'm still somewhat confused. I have the choice to stay on at my current sixth form and do a lot of travelling each day and be very tired and do English Language, Applied Science and Computing.

Or I can go to a sixth form in my town to do Geography, History, Sociology and ICT.

I'm thinking of applying for sponsorship.
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Old 24th Sep 2006, 21:30
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Of crucial importance is what you are good at. Do not worry about anything else, other than gaining the highest possible grades that your potential allows, in order to demonstrate the highest academic skill possible, and if necessary to allow you to progress to university to study one of those subjects that you enjoy. If you fail to achieve results through doing the wrong subjects, you fail both on the aviation career potential, and the backup career options are diminished.

You are correct that there is another thread, with which this will probably be later merged.
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Old 4th Oct 2006, 23:56
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Education

Hi.
This is just a basic question. If you don't get A-levels do you have no or very little chance of getting a sponsorship with an airline? Which would mean self-funding. Thanks All
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Old 5th Oct 2006, 09:15
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You can visit the websites of the various mentoring airlines (none of them sponsor - you borrow the money and are responsible for servicing the debt) to establish the facts for yourself, but I think you will find that they all require at least 2 A-levels. If you do not have A-levels, or an equivalent or higher qualification, you will not be considered for these schemes.


Scroggs
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Old 10th Oct 2006, 13:53
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help with course- please!!

i am doing my a levels in psychology, double IT and citizenship. i am 18 and hopin 2 get Bs or above in all those subjects. i am plannng to do a BSc course at uni. either airline or airport management or aerospace technology with management. i have another option ie aerospace technology with pilot studies. i have a few questions to put forward. could you please help me with these.

1st of all is it possible to get a sponsorship for doing this course at university?

is it sensible to do a course at uni 1st then get a job and save money 4 pilot training or do the Aerospace technology with pilot training course?

as im 18 and at last year of a levels, is der nything i can do that will look good on my CV. i have read a few articles but as im 18 i dun knw wht else i can do.

thanking yall in advance.
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Old 10th Oct 2006, 20:40
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1) No

2) Yes, it is sensible to go to university, but it is not sensible to study a subject at university if there is any doubt that you will achieve a good degree from doing so. If you would achieve a better degree through doing psycology, then do that instead. While aviation degrees might indicate motivation, they are to a large extent unproven to help a flying career, and carry huge risk of being not interesting to a pilot wannabe, as they cover non-flying areas of business/engineering.

3) Work hard, have loads of extra-curricular activities up your sleeve that indicate teamwork, and demonstrate motivation towards an aviation career - perhaps by working at a local airfield. Army cadets/CCF/Scouts/sports - all are good.

PS - learn to type in longhand - text speak is a bad habit when you have a keyboard

Last edited by Lucifer; 10th Oct 2006 at 20:51.
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