I've been saddened to read that so many students have had what should be an enjoyable experience spoiled by the personality in the rh seat. When one thinks how much lessons cost the level of customer care should be much higher.

One used to talk of Doctors "bedside manner" meaning that GP's were expected to display a caring sympathetic attitude to their patients. Maybe some of the instructor fraternity should take a leaf out of the history books and polish up their "cockpit manner"

I realise more and more that my experiences in the early 1970's were wonderful. The notion of an assigned instructor was not the norm in those days and you took pot luck.

I was taught by 5 different instructors , an ex Luftwaffe T33 jet jock a dour Irishman, an ex Farnborough test pilot a young chain smoking assistant FI from Bury anf the CFI who did a lot with hand signals. They all stuck to a clearly defined sylabus and the student quickly learned to glean the best from each.

Therefore for wild exuberant aeros go German, for a dose of caution on a marginal day head west to Ireland, to learn the tricks of the instrument flying trade Farnboro' and if you like a rough shag (pipe tobacco that is) the CFI would oblige by puffing away contentedly as you bashed the circuit

I know 30 years has probably made the memories rosier than they were but in essence I feel I was turned out as a well rounded new PPL as opposed to the clone of one person. (however good that instructor was)

BTW I note no complaints here about female instructors. They were a rare thing in my day but the ones I've flown with recently knock most of their male colleagues into a cocked hat.

If you are rubbing up badly against a particular "type" maybe thats the way to go.

Gaining a PPL is a worthwile thing and you'll feel a fantastic sense of achievement once it's yours. To all students who are suffering a dip in confidence I urge you to carry on- its worth it

Sir George Cayley

The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door

the CFI who did a lot with hand signals.

I remember him. He was one of the VERY good ones, and I am thankful he was still instructing in '78 when I was doing my PPL (he is now, sadly, long dead). A man of few words but superb technique. Up-a-bit was a flat and stiff horizontal hand executing an upward 'batting' gesture; the reverse for descending. Turns were the same, but the hand was held 'nose to tail' and batted either left or right. Lower flaps was the horizontal hand again, but a 'beak' made between thumb and forefinger, openeing and closing.

I beleive this came from his RAF instructing days on Noisy biplanes (I know he flew Wappities in the '30s RAF) with no RT.

One day, a student offered him a lift home from the club. He got into the car, and instead of "straight to the next junction, then left", it was those hand signals again!

These guys were the real characters of aviation, and are sadly missed. I feel privaleged to have flown with a few of them, including CR.

SSD

PS

Agree with Sir George about the muliplicity of instructors we had back then. Probably not as 'efficient' as the system employed today, but I loved it, and I think I gained from having so many techniques to learn from. It meant that the student had to be pro-active in guiding their own training or you'd end up doing the same lesson 3 times over. But it probably raised a more self sufficient generation of PPLs than we see today (OK, massive generalisaton, but I think the principle stands).

SSD

Dave, are you going to reply? This lot seem to be unanimous!

Hi David,

I think you could do worse than to get an assessment with someone fresh, from outside your normal airfield/school.

A few people are around (Irv Lee at Popham and Derek Davidson [sp?] ) spring to mind. I have no experience with either but their names have popped up here and on other forums when similar situations have arisen.

If you are that close to the skills test they should be able, in a relatively short time, to see if you are able to cut the mustard, and where (if any) you have any weaknesses.

Nothing worse than a crappy instructor spoiling your day and to leave now would be very frustrating to you for a very long time.

Unfortunately not all those with an instructor's ticket are gifted with an awful lot of teaching talent and patient but you have to guard yourself from being a victim of that.

To be a good pilot you have to possess a modicum of assertiveness, commitment and perseverance. Surely attributes you have as you have come such a long way already, let these qualities help you to achieve your goal!

Have fun in pursuing your ambition, remember the sky is the limit!

FD

Many thanks for all the replies and words of encouragement. I've calmed down a bit now, and reading all the replies has helped put things in better perspective. It is however worrying that my experience seems to be far from unusual.

28thJuly2001

I was actually looking forward to my skills test, as I'm one of those strange types that enjoys exam situations. Also I did not threaten to quit 'just because (my) instructor says (my)knowledge is lacking'. I did not lose it because I couldn't answer the questions. This was an exercise in humiliation.

'Quit now and I can guarantee you will regret it for the rest of your life.' Maybe, but I don't think so. In the past I've been a stubborn b*****d and refused to give up trying to achieve particular goals, because I had to prove to myself that I could do whatever it was that I was trying to do. This was due to a lack of confidence in my early years. Now I'm older I no longer need to prove these things to myself. I simply do the things I want to do because I want to do them, not to prove anything. In the past I have persevered with things way beyond the point of reason, where any sensible person would have given up long before. And I did what I was trying to do. But when I looked back, I realised my mistake. So, because of my previous form, I try not to blindly follow the advice which you (and others outside of pprune) have given. However I understand the sentiment behind it, and that it is given with the best of intentions. Thanks.

I also agree with the rest of your comments. I am after all a big boy now. When I wrote the original post I was extremely angry and maybe I should have waited 24 hours before posting. But if I had waited until I had calmed down then I may not have posted at all.

Anyway, I think I will spend a couple of days thinking about something other than flying (mrs dave will be pleased!), and then come back to it and see how I feel.

Once again many thanks for all your replies.

Dave.

2nd post below

I have realised that I've become so caught up in the training that I've almost forgotten why I'm doing it. And I can't actually remember the last time I took a second to look at the view on my lessons. Maybe I should have asked my instructor to take control for a minute or two when recovering to the field, and just sat there and stared out the window.

I also recognise that, when considering the potential lifetime of flying ahead of me, the training period is relatively short in comparison (yeah I know it's a licence to learn, but you know what I mean). So it'd be stupid to jack it in now, right?

So, when I said about a couple of days NOT thinking about flying, I meant starting tomorrow...

Dave.

David,
Maybe I was a little harsh with my comments but I STILL cannot understand why you would come so far and then want to chuck it all away.
YOU WILL REGRET IT.
I think you need to sit back and think about why you want to be a PPL. If you let a 'little thing' like an ar$y instructor get in your way of your dreams then maybe you don't want it enough.
I still can't get the thought out of my head that there is another reason for you threatening to quit and this episode was just another nail in the coffin.
We all get bad days but once you have your licence and get to fly over the snow capped Brecon Beacons, watch the red arrows practice while you pre-flight, see 2 Hercules fly past, get chased by a Tornado, orbit while a 747 comes in to land, have your wife congratulate you on a perfect greaser etc.etc.......aahhhhhhh....wouldn't change it for the world.
28th,,

So close... Don't give it up
 

I agree David, have a few days to think about other things (If that's possible) I too had a few problems with my instructor but I still put that down to adolescent mood swings :p

The PPL will open up a new world for you...

28th

You are right. Maybe I don't want it enough. If I wanted it enough, then I'd do it. And I can see why you think there may be another reason behind it, because it doesn't sound logical to give up because of one bad experience, does it?

I think I may have over-reacted during my initial dummy spit. But as I left the field after the event I just wanted to forget all about flying. I was thinking about all the money I've spent only to get treated like an idiot. And all the other things I could have spent it on, which would have made me feel a damn sight better than I did then! So the idea of giving up seemed perfectly reasonable.

I still feel that way to some extent, although I can also see that it looks stupid to give up at the last hurdle.

I've had a few moments like the ones you describe, although mostly as a pax. Maybe I should think about those moments to start the positive thoughts going again. Not sure I'd want to get chased by a Tornado though!

Dave

Dave,

Speaking as an instructor, for god's sake don't chuck it in now. We all have bad days (FI's included!) Try not to worry too much about someone giving you a hard time just before your test. Sometimes it's a technique we use to make sure people don't get complacent. If he's like it all the time, bin him and get another, there are plenty about at the moment!!

An instructors job is to turn Bloggs into a safe and competent pilot, Sometimes it means getting a bit nasty. This is especially true with students who turn up repeatedly without having done any pre-reading or thinking. (I'm not for a moment suggesting that's you though.) Often you are working harder than the person who's paying!!

I can promise you that if you don't continue, in time it will become an annoyance. I have had numerous students who have done this, only to return a few years later and have to start over again.

Flying IS supposed to fun and generally it is, but sometimes it will scare the cr*p out of you. Does this mean you never do it again? I would have stopped after my first teaching trip if that was the case!:rolleyes:

Take a couple of days off, relax and maybe if you fancy, hire another instructor and just go for a jolly.

Which area are you currently flying from? Don't get too specific.

If you want an FI to chat to about it, just PM me. Believe me in that unfortunately this happens far too often.:*

good morning Dave,

I had a student once that had been doing lots of t & g's with his instructor, doing the usual excercises near by, etc. His instructor couldn't keep an appointment one day so they asked if I could jump in. I checked what the student had done so far and noticed during our pre-chat that he seemed to be a bit frustrated. So, on a whim, I decided to just do a fun XC with him, visiting my former home base. It was beautiful weather, I didn't even bother to make him do the planning (I already had that), I just let him do the flying and look at the scenery. He loved it! He came back motivated again and kept reminding me later how much he enjoyed our flight! *westypatsherselfontheback* He has his ppl in the meantime.... :ok:

Maybe that's what you need... a nice "just-for-fun" training flight! good luck!!


http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/...smiley-072.gif Westy

Westy said it before I could, but then, she's been instructing for a lot longer. I disagree with 28th. We all have days when we want to jack it in, and wonder why we ever started. And if you leave the airfield feeling that way, it can last. I felt like that at various times during my PPL, definitely during my CPL, and most especially during and soon after my instructors course!!!!! I honestly wondered if doing that had put me off flying for ever. But all if took was getting up there with a student to realise just how much FUN it was and always had been and always would be. So go up there for a fun flight, look at the view, and remind yourself of what the rest of your life could be like.

david.porter9

I am getting into this thread late but I would suggest you change schools (if you can) or just change an instructor (if you have no choice of schools).

The first 2 or 3 instructors I flew with either treated me like an idiot (e.g. would not explain why a certain checklist item is there) or were overly aggressive, and I moved on. It does appear to waste money (and it does in the short term) but there are as many bad instructors as there are good ones so it's a lottery.

The other thing is that different types of people need to be taught in different ways, and a particular instructor might get on with one type and not another. I know one instructor who regularly says "well that was a f****ing c**p bit of flying" which is OK if you are an aggressive male and all your mates down the pub talk to you the same way, but not if you are more average. But he does it with everybody, including the women.

I believe most instructors, even most of the good ones, are not able to determine how they should modify their style to suit different people. Those that can are great - and to everyone's envy they get all the female students too :O

Good morning Whirly,

I'm 2 hours ahead of you over here on the continent! :D (or do you have daylight-savings time, too? then it's only one hour...)


http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/...smiley-085.gif Westy

david.porter9

Mate - if you are at what I think is the geographically closest 'flying school' to where you live, then my advice is to get out now .

I did - and I've never regretted it.

PM me if you want to discuss.

Today I flew back from Mona (Anglesey) to London in just over 2 hours - beats driving! :D :D :D

Without wishing to antagonise the flamers amongst you all, if he has decided to quit then let him quit.

Although there has been a lot of sense entered into this thread by many people, David is clearly unsure about whether he wishes to continue learning.

If it is purely a clash of personality with an instructor then he will change instructors (IF HE REALLY WANTS TO CONTINUE WITH IT). And if he REALLY wants to continue he will change instructors ten times if needs be to achieve the final goal.

No offense David but the decision is black and white. Whirlybirds advice was spot on........there are good days and there are bad days. If you have 3 bad days in a row you forget about the good days and what they feel like.

I would suggest you get back in the seat for one more hour and go for it. If it is still hellish tell the instructor to be honest with you. He might even say you aren't up to it, he might say you'll be qualified in a month. Unless you ask you won't know.

Sorry to be blunt but that's moi!



:}

Most of the time you can see when a student is getting fed up with you. Time to sit back,fly somewhere interesting locally (even just fly the student somewhere yourself) and remind yourselves that flying is fun. Very, very occassionally I will raise my voice or change my laid back attitude. The ONLY time to do this is to reinforce a point that the student has done something unsafe. So unsafe it could kill you. That is the only time at which you want the student to remember having a bad time in the aircraft. Maybe David is truly cr@p and dangerous, but I think someone would have noticed by now. I am sure most instructors have had to tell someone that they will never fly solo. Then again maybe not.
Another point is that as you get older you learn less quickly. Young instructors don't realise this. When I was 19 I soloed in 8 hours and gained my PPL in 17 (yes 17) flying days. Some of my older students have taken 30 hours to solo, not coz they are crap, but because they are 55 years old and only turn up to fly once a week - and not coz I am a cr@p instructor. Then again maybe I am.
David, if you want to fly then take a break and come back to another school and another instructor, and remember why you wanted to do it in the first place.

There are some truly awful instructors out there, people who are doing the job purely to rack up the hours and S@d the student. I know exactly how you feel Peter. Go talk to the CFI or club owner, don't let this guy off the hook ! He is paid to do aquality proffessional job, not to intimidate or threaten.

I've heard some pretty ugly stories regarding bad FI's etc but this has got to be the worst. I subscribe to the opinion that the younger you are the more you will bow down to agressive teaching styles. I took some flack during training but in the end heared some of the most increbile praise ever.

However, flying in the UK is still a world class con, and too restrictive.

Hope you change your mind!

In Altissimus, Oli and Say Again Slowly,

I have PM'd you.

Dave.

Right, I am now thinking like an (almost) rational person and I realise that my initial reaction was a bit OTT. So after two days scraping paint off my garage floor and trying not to think about flying, I have decided to continue. Here, then, is my plan:

1) Do some solo circuits or a solo navex just to get back in the plane and remind myself that it's fun, as suggested by Whirly, Westwind and others. (Whirly, I loved your line 'So go up there for a fun flight, look at the view, and remind yourself of what the rest of your life could be like.)

2) Book some lessons with a different instructor to get me fully up to speed and ready.

3) Take, and hopefully pass, the rt test and skills test.

4) Go fly!

I think one or two people mentioned earlier that I should take the problem to the CFI. Unfortunately he is the CFI. He is also the examiner for the rt and skills test. So if there are further problems with him then I will have a quiet chat about life with him, and if this does not resolve the situation then I will change schools and take the skills test some place else.

Thanks for all the replies, they have really made a difference. To be honest I thought there would be a lot more people telling me to pull myself together, etc. Unfortunately it seems to be a far from unusual experience and many of you have been there before me, some of you on numerous occasions it seems. That just cannot be right, can it? Oh well, guess I'd better stop now before I go off on one again.

Cheers for now,

Dave.