The IMC
 

Just interested to see who thinks the IMC is a good rating to go for and who thinks its a waste of time..

It depends on the type of flying you wish to do and also if you want to restrict yourself to nice weather flying.ie Cavok. But even if you have the rating with no intention of using it, it may come to your rescue if you get caught out by the ever changing British weather. If you have ever been in Scotland you will know what i mean . It is not uncommon to experience more than 1 seasons weather in one day regardless of what season you are actually in.
Happy flying

I think it depends on how often you want to go flying. I believe that as a basic PPL you cannot take off or land if the visibilty is less than 3 km. If you had an IMC rating this is reduced to 1.8 km. Also, if you were needing to fly SVFR the minimum visibility is 10km for basic PPL but with IMC this is reduced to 3km.

If you find that visibility is one of the main reasons that you sometimes don't get to fly then it may well be worth considering. Don't forget though, if you hire aircraft and find that you often can't get an aircraft when you would ideally like it, if on a particular day the conditions are IMC, any pilots that have booked a plane who do not have the IMC rating won't be able to fly. That may make an aircraft available to you that without the rating you would not even be able to consider flying.

I also think you get to fly instrument approaches as well but the decision height is much greater than for a full instrument rating. Having said that, as I stated earlier, even with an IMC rating the take off/ landing visibility has to be 1.8km minimum anyway. But at least you should be able to line up before you have even seen the runway. I think it is something everybody should take because you may need the skills it teaches when you least expect it. Weather forecast aren't always correct are they? It may very well be 16.5 (or however many it is ) hours of training that save your life.

I for one will take it. Someday.

:)

I think the choice of wording here is slightly unfortunate. ALL aviation training is worthwhile, even if you don't use it directly. To take an example, as some of you know I've been intermittently learning to fly a flexwing microlight, damaged my shoulder on a less-than-perfect landing, and have put the whole thing on indefinite hold. But I learned a huge amount about weather and aircraft responses, flying non-radio, and other stuff that I hadn't known before - all of it useful no matter what you fly. Perhaps more directly related, the few hours of instrument flying that I did for my CPL(H) has been very helpful when flying either helos or f/w aircraft in poor visibility or over water, where you need to use the instruments more than usual. I haven't done an IMC - been trying to fit it in for the last four years - but I plan to someday.

Now as to whether you should do it if you don't have the time and money, or would rather spend them on something else; that's a different question and comes down to priorities.

Being about 4 hours into my IMC I am in favour of this. But have to agree with other posters. The skills you learn not only allow you to fly in IMC, but they improve your overall flying skills, and general ability.

IMHO flying is a road where we are constatantly learning, the IMC is good way of increasing your flying skills without the cost of the full IR.


Happy Flying ( Chance would be a fine thing given the recent weather) :confused: :confused:


WAL

IMC rating
 

Still thinking about doing a third renewal next Nov, FM immunity being the problem. Don't know anyone who has an aircraft that is FM immune, so if you can't legally fly an ILS IFR, what is the point? Understand practise approaches VFR are OK. Having said that, the course is well worth while, once I was on the ground in one piece I would argue about the legality of it then. So how are flying Schools getting round the FM immunity problem. Anyone know? I don't belong to a Flying School now, prefer grass strips.:confused:

I have a current IMC, and will be renewing it in Jan. I do not enjoy flying when the weather is poor, and therefore choose not to. In the last 2 years (since I have had my IMC) I have flown in true IMC conditions only 3 or 4 times, but I use the nav and radio skills learnt in it every time I fly. I realise that it is NOT an IR, so don't set off flying when I will have to fly in cloud. One huge danger with it is that instrument skills degrade rapidly when not used, and so need to be practiced regularly - not just used when we unexpectedly find ourselves surrounded by bad weather.

Am i the only one out here in the ether of the 'net who feels that the IMC should actually be PART of the PPl; a combination of the two, in my opinion, is the real private licence.

British weaher is just to changable to rely on vfr at all times. Four seasons in one day and all.

On that note, dont even get me started on this NPPL malarky!!:eek: :eek:

Just my thoughts; i'll prepare for a flaming now!;)

Martinbakerfanclub.

I agree with you about PPL + IMC as I said in my above post. The British weather is just too changeable and I would not consider a cross country flight especially around this time of year without the rating.

As for the NPPL, I believe you can't even fly to another airfield. You might as well just practice circuits.

The IMC is a fantastic rating. You can wait a long time for VMC in this country – restricting yourself to VFR-only basically means you don’t fly very often (and it doesn’t seem to be any better in summer these days). This is not just annoying but pretty inconvenient if you’ve planned a trip and booked a hotel, car hire etc. With the IMC the only things that stop me flying now are:-

1. Vis < 1800m;
2. Cloudbase at destination below min. for approach;
3. Cloudbase too low for terrain plus freezing level too low (I don’t have de-ice);
4. Embedded CB (no WX radar);
5. Gale-force wind.

Not that we’re immune from this stuff, but at least it’s a bit rarer. BTW there have been quite a few threads on this recently – a search will provide lots of info/opinions.

chrisbonfield
 

In answer to your question.....

I would strongly endorse acquiring the IMC Rating. The reasons have largely been outlined.

My comment concerns the training itself. When I started I had a bit of difficulty visualising the 3d situation and became confused as to which leg, turn etc I was on. After about 5hrs I was going to bin it as too much like hard work; it was after one particular exercise that everything came together and the realisation that I was not incompetent came as a relief. If you start, stick with it (like you did for the PPL) it will come good.

The best bit comes with applying the theory....I was blown away the first time I used the rating in anger ......the theory worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My concern is the degradation of the skills learned. I for one would not willingly fly off into pure clag for the fun of it, so suspect the opportunities for practicing IFR will be fairly minimal. That said, everybody tells me that it really sharpens up your flying skills.

What do people think of using flight simulators to keep in practice? I don’t have IMC, but have been using Flight Simulator 2002 for a year now, and have “learned” much of the drill for IFR flight, to a point where my panel scan is almost instinctive… question is… is it safe?

Richard

Hi

The IMC is a great rating and as stated by others all training that enhances peoples skills and abilities is good.

But............

The standard of training is such that a lot of important issues are no taught.

If you think that with the IMC in your pocket you can blast off in cloudy skies has still a lot to learn.

It also allows 16hrs off your FAA IR requirement.

Have fun and learn a lot but beware of the limitations of your skills.

FD

No question that the IMC is a must-have and I'm almost inclined to agree that it should be part of the PPL.

However having said that, its not a cheap rating to get and the average immediate post PPL would be well advised to notch up a few more post PPL hours than the minimum requirement.

Why? Well speaking from personal experience I went for the IMC rating only 25 hours post PPL when my altitude keeping and certain other aspects of my flying made getting the initial IMC a bit of a sweat.

However I did get it and have kept it up ever since.

I really wanted to do the JAA/IR but cost and other factors ruled this out.

I do fly IMC but have to be careful that Wx isnt likely to close in too much as we don't have an ILS at our airstrip and the nearest ILS is miles away.

Maneged to keep my IMC skills ./ interest up by doing the FAA/IR in Florida last Feb: also a thoroughly worthwhile exercise>

OK so I don't fly an N reg so its useless in UK. Nah: experience gained getting this (stiff) test made it all worthwhile.

Don't let anyone tell you the FAA/IR is a piece of p*ss.


Safe flying.

;)

Get it and fly VFR on top. IMHO one of the great pleasures of flying is to get on top of a grey day into blue sky.

Its a good rating to have if its the only IR rating you can afford time/money wise.

If you have the time then get yourself an FAA IR, you will cover a lot more flying in a lot of detail and its a damn good grounding for building upon later. The other good points to remember are that

- Upon passing you get an IMC on your UK licence for free anyway!(Bar the CAAs £64 fee!)
- The IR is for life and as long you shoot the approaches, etc it self certifying.
- You therefore dont need to keep renewing your IMC as it based on your FAA IR so its cheaper and less hassle.

I went over to California and did mine as a holiday rather than sitting on a beach, I spent about 60 hours flying round as combined it with touring a bit of the US which if you talk to the instructors most are more than happy to do.

Are you sure about that bit? I thought an IMC rating issued without training or test (because the holder was an IR holder from another ICAO state) was a UK rating in its own right and had to be renewed or revalidated as such?

When issued an IMC rating based on the FAA IR, it does have an expiry or renewal date...However, as a current IR holder meets the requirements for issue of an IMC, then I'm guessing it could be renewed in a 'paperwork' exercise by re-applying for it?

Rgds
EA:)

What is the point?. You either go for in IR or don't bother. Private flying should be VFR only and the pros should sit in IFR - the two simply don't mix.

There are too many people pretending to be pros without the full pro training and pro operating environment.

Surely this can only lead to problems?

Chipjockey -

I assume that is a wind up, but anyway I couldn't disagree more.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using an IMC rating for A to B IFR flying in UK airspace, provided that you are happy to stay out of the airways/TMAs and other places that are non-IMC rating friendly.

However, it must be said that the basic 15 hour course practising on your local NDB/ILS doesn't really offer sufficient training. If anyone intends to use the rating to go from place to place I would suggest they :

1) Find an experienced instructor - not one with a shiny new CPL/IR but someone with actual experience of single crew IFR operations.

2) Having done so and reached a stage where you can pass the IMC test then do plenty of IFR cross country flying with said instructor (preferably in actual IMC and with visibility conditions approaching minimas for take-off and landing).

3) Make sure you have a good understanding of met, especially icing.

4) Don't start getting to adventurous before you are perfectly happy with what you are doing.

5) Remember that there will always be days when even the "pro" pilots mentioned by Chipjockey will not be going anywhere unless they and their aircraft are Cat 3 qualified.

6) If in doubt - don't go. Remember that once you get up there mother nature isn't going to be kind to you because you hold an IMC rating not an IR.

If you do all these things there is absolutely no reason why a PPL holder with an IMC rating cannot operate safely in aircraft like Arrows or 182s under IFR - or even light twins if you get plenty of practise at asymetric operations on instruments.

I know plenty of PPL holders who do this and operate safely - it is possible to apply a "professional" attitude to your flying without getting paid for it.