Formation Flying
 

Is there anywhere in the U.K. that offers formation flying training for duffers, preferably using my own airplane? I had a crack at it today taking off and bimbling, really enjoyed it but was nervous as hell. Want to get proficient at it.

West London Aero Club at White Waltham offer training in Slingsby Fireflies.

It's generally best to do it in similar types, so unless that's what you have, I'd suggest you are better doing it in theirs, not yours.

G

What type? It’s usually significantly easier to teach formation with two of the same type. The process can then be translated to a different type fairly easily.

If you can get hold of a second aircraft of the same type and someone else who wants to learn, try the North Weald Formation School run by the Air Ministry (google). It started off with Yak-52s but they will teach in other types. It usually runs in April and October.

Otherwise, try CRM Aviation at White Waltham who use the T-67. it’s them rather than WLAC who do the formation training.

DHH at Perth. The last course was a couple of years ago but if he can get a few like minded souls together would probably be glad to do another.

There is quite a few places that do this, where abouts is your aeroplane? It’s a good idea you’re looking for training firstly as formation flying is not easy without proper instruction.

There are places but maybe not within easy location.

ideally you need to do it in the same type, and really ideally in something that is responsive to fly because done properly you are pretty close in.

and tail chasing is huge fun so aerobatic capability is useful

i've never flown a maule but if it handles like say a pa28 or 172 i wouldn't be that keen.....

But better not to try this!!!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/pNaZCDhvh88

Andrewsfield does courses: Formation ? Andrewsfield Aviation
http://andrewsfield.com/wp-content/u...ion-header.png

I'm also sure that someone at the Tiger Club could help you out: The Tiger Club, Sport Aviation, Aerobatics, formation flying. air racing, air races. display flying

OC619

PB that suit is just so you!!

I’d need a bigger wing and jet to counter Bernoulli’s effect from the large camber at the flight suit waistband.😀

dont overfil,
I know - it's so fetching duckie!

I do it for a living in the day job so would be happy to teach you.

Formation? I think that's "same way, same day"

:ok:

You've got to start somewhere :)

OC619

OpenCirrus619,

Tiger club definitely does offer it, either in the cub, tiger or turbulent. If you have tailwheel experience, the turb would probably be the cheapest option at £75ph (per turb - you do need 2 really...!) it's kinda hard to beat...

They did a cool video not that long ago with the turb team: https://youtu.be/5rYo5vOVKL4 I still want do fly one of those - they look so cool!

If you have an RV there is a group that flies out of north weald. It think there is also a Yak group there as well.

Skysport at Kemble also offers formation training.

It depends what you fly and where you are.

Its great fun and worth getting good training rather than making it up as you go along.

I wonder what frequency do pilots use during formation flying training? As it is critical to be able to start transmitting at any time with no waiting time, none of the official (and usually busy) frequencies seem suitable.

There are some discreet frequencies which are known to the people who need to know.

If contact lost in reduced viz never, ever think "He must be just there, I'll move in a bit and try to regain visual contact"

(Not me but two aircraft on same RAF station :eek: )

During a trip in August, from Canada to Wyoming, to see the total eclipse, I was mystified when my pilot said to the aircraft accompanying us "See you on Cheap Suits". All became clear when he dialed in 129.95! ;)

When I was first introduced to formation flying in Chipmunks, there was a procedure which had never occurred to me, but the reason became immediately obvious. When changing formation lead, the current lead would brief the new lead on where we were and what was our heading.

The reason of course is that the rest of the formation have no idea where they are - they were just concentrating on station keeping.

The other one is "go guns" which means switch to (1)30.3

When passing lead the aircraft giving up the lead should provide a current position, the location of the arrival airport, and a traffic update

Eg, assuming a 4 ship formation where the lead of the second element ( Number 3) will take over as lead

"Lead three, over XXX, home plate your 3 o'clock for 15, traffic your 2 o'clock low no factor, take the lead..........GO!"

Seeing this just makes me cringe. Some people think that as long as I am not to close I am safe when in fact the exact opposite is true. Then to add to the danger you have a formation of low performance high wing airplanes :ugh:

This formation is OK until the lead airplane decides to turn, particularly if it he needs to quickly do a moderate (30 deg) banked turn for say avoiding traffic. The airplanes on the outside of the turn will instantly go blind as their wing will block the lead and quickly fall out of position as they have a much longer radius turn they will not have the power to keep position and will fall back.

The airplanes on the inside of the turn will be flying a much smaller radius circle and will have to dramatically slow down and bank more steeply or they will close lead.

After 90 degrees of turn everyone will be out of position and probably in a dangerous position.

Sadly this exact scenario happened to a same way, same day formation of Cessna 150's and resulted in a mid air with 2 dead and badly injured.....

I was taught formation flying and then how to instruct formation flying by an x Military QFI and Display pilot. We fly low wing x military trainers with full bubble canopies and parachutes. and everyone holds a current FAST formation qualification recognized by the FAA and Transport Canada.

Want to learn to fly formation ? Great, but go to a school that has suitable aircraft ( Not 150's :rolleyes:) and appropriately qualified instructors. :ok:

You can't teach yourself formation flying !

What BPF says.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I instruct formation in ex military types, having been trained properly by military and ex military instructors.

The photo above shows a bunch of people who are likely to get killed if one of them does something unexpected - call sign “Darwin”?

Closer is better (and easier) up to a point and if you’re that close, you will have been suitably trained in the first place.

paperboy84. PM me. It is something that needs to be taught by professionals.

That’s more like it!
 

No same day, same way for the Red Baron!

sharpend is absolutely correct - formation flying must be taught by professionals. Which means by an instructor who has him/herself been taught by someone who has flown in formation during military service.

Discipline is essential for formation flying. Which means everything from the pre-flight brief, radio check-in and onwards.

Be very wary of being 'taught' formation by anyone else.

And if you have seen the video of the 2 Mustangs`colliding ` during a join on the B17 at Duxford,you`ll see how near disaster it was ;briefly,late/rushed joining,#2 incorrect position on Lead, goes to change to opposite side, ahead and over lead,now `blind on Lead,but doesn`t break-out,Leads prop clips #2s tailplane,both aircraft damaged,but land ok.....

The Cessna 'formation' looks very, very wrong.

http://www.pprune.org/members/19949-...arman-trio.jpg

This photo was taken by me during my one and only experience of formation flying during a fascinating visit to Chino. Before the flight I sat in on a meeting of the Squadron where the pilot of the white Stearman gave a short lecture on formation flying which included many of the important points raised in this thread. Having stressed the importance of briefing, the pilot of the blue and yellow aircraft was invited to join us just before we took off. There did not appear to be any briefing but I am sure that these guys were very used to flying with each other and it all went very well. After splitting up over a nearby lake we all did our own thing for a while, mostly aerobatics and, after I was given control, some low flying tail chases. Eventually I was told to catch up the other two who had already set out for home. I was told to join up on the right of the pair. Expecting my pilot to take over before I got too close, to my amazement he allowed me to tuck in really close and left me in control until we did a running break to land. It was one of the most amazing flying experiences of my life and still makes me smile.

learning to formate
 

I would suggest that an important factor in formation flying is being completely familiar with the aircraft being flown, and especially in the slow flight regime.
This is because you will not be looking anywhere else other than at the leader (with the odd glance at the engine T&P and fuel).
A sensible briefing should not overload the student with all the info at once, and initially should concentrate only on the join up and being able maintain the correct position in level flight. Once someone can join safely, break away and rejoin smoothly, plus maintain the correct position without recourse to over controlling with associate excursions, the basic principles are established.
The other 'strange' feeling will be using an element of cross controls to achieve the above, and this should be explained before any actual flying is done.
As alluded to, the ideal mount 'for learning' should be low wing with bubble type canopy (or indeed open cockpit). Once a level of experience has been obtained the principles can be extended to all manner of aircraft types and speeds, with suitable allowances made for high energy/low drag machines.

Leading a formation is a very responsible position and the formation should be treated as an extension of the lead aircraft with (certainly in club aircraft) the knowledge that the wing positions will be needing completely different power settings from the lead, and sometimes will be finely balanced so the the 'outside ship' does not left behind, or the inside position is not wallowing around near the stall. Needless to say there is no substitute to a proper briefing which should also include use of 'hand signals' in case of radio problems. The Tiger Club make it look simple (and indeed the Turbs are an excellent formation mount) but they are a well honed team that train and fly together on a regular basis and therefore are in essence a professional outfit in their operation. Anyone with a serious intent of getting 'informed' would do well to seek some advice from the TC as a start.