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-   -   Finals? (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/561369-finals.html)

Crash one 14th May 2015 22:28


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash one
pedantic stuffed shirts jump up & down squealing like big girls, "final, final!" Does it really matter?
No need to get nasty! I wasn't criticising anybody, just trying to find out where the term comes from. You're of an older generation than me, so was it on the syllabus when you learned to fly?
I wasn't trying to be nasty. This question has been brought up often. Incidentally I use the singular Final myself only because I was taught that plural is bad form.
I also use "Over" occasionally, can't help that, ex mil thing.
I am surprised that air traffic people judge pilots by whether or not they use the plural.

patowalker 15th May 2015 01:03

Origin of calling 'Final' is this true? [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

9 lives 15th May 2015 01:43


I am surprised that air traffic people judge pilots by whether or not they use the plural.
Me... Not so surprised. But I'm one of those people who cringe when someone says: "Bring this over there", or "drive a plane". Our language is a tool for communication. I suspect that ATC is most likely to judge how pilots us their communication tool first - what else do they have to go by?

fujii 15th May 2015 04:11

It's not so much the plural but the thought that this pilot probably hasn't looked at phraseology for a while and what else is he or she not up to date with.

It's a bit like when driving, some times for some reason you pay extra attention to a certain other car. It's just part of the scanning, projecting, planning, implementing and monitoring loop which is drilled into controllers.

longer ron 15th May 2015 05:23

The best thing about saying 'Finals' is that it very quickly identifies the pedants
:)

At a foreign gliding club some years ago - one of our members used to announce 'Downwind Leg Over' which usually raised a chuckle (it was the only circuit/pattern call we made),most of us through laziness just called 'Downwind' :)

When I flew power - I most definitely said 'Finals' - purely because it sounds waaaaay cooler than 'Final' - which grammatically sounds plane wrong :)

Sillert,V.I. 15th May 2015 05:59

I've always thought 'final approach' to be technically incorrect - at least, most of the time. Surely you only make one 'final approach' in a lifetime :E.

fujii 15th May 2015 06:01

Cooler! Really? "Over," we're you using ship to shore radio telephones?
Finals and over are (aero)plane wrong as well as being plain wrong.

It just goes back to being unfamiliar with phraseology and why controllers use these cues as a warning. Like the day I instructed an aircraft on short final to go around, he did a left orbit. Still I suppose he did two finals for the one approach.

2 sheds 15th May 2015 11:26


short final
......Ahem!

360BakTrak 15th May 2015 11:54

I still, after 20 years, haven't found this mythical 'short' final! :E:}

Pace 15th May 2015 12:11

there are some :ugh: which pilots say one of my hates is " 6442 coming down" yuck I am sure there are other home made bits which others note :E

Jetblu 15th May 2015 14:16

There are some classics about. I remember flying to Le Touq many years ago with a female passenger who was also wearing headsets and listening to the radio transmissions. French female controller "G -ABCD cleared to land, check gear." Female passenger "Do you know her? Why does she want to check your gear?" :)

ETOPS 15th May 2015 16:41

I think it goes way further back than that to WW2.

The view of the runway flare path was likened to a "funnel" so some would transmit "funnel" when the runway was in sight. This became transmuted into "final" and later (by some lazy types :rolleyes: ) into "finals"...

longer ron 15th May 2015 17:37

'Funnels' was the normal call in those days :)

rgds - 'Lazy' and proud of it :)

Pace 15th May 2015 17:53

I prefer landing strip than funnels :E but hang on isn't that used for something else :mad:???

Jetblu 15th May 2015 18:00

I prefer a nice neat strip to execute my finals.

Cusco 15th May 2015 18:21

CAP 413 RadioTelephony Manual Ed 21 April 2015 (4.52 page 23) uses the term 'Final' throughout.

That's good enough for me.

Cusco:ok:

longer ron 15th May 2015 18:37


I prefer a nice neat strip to execute my finals.
Good for an 'overshoot' then ? :)

'Go around' just wouldn't work LOL

Jetblu 15th May 2015 18:47

Oh I dunno. Could always go around for a back track. :)

condor17 17th May 2015 18:16

Fuji , sorry to interject , but must defend the honour of most Ba aviators ...... ''The'' Speedbird was mostly BOAC ,or being posh on the Conc . Us BEA 'drivers' used Bealine , Albion , Shuttle , and being an old 'Naarfick' tractor driver with wings 'finals' tend slip out with great regularity ; and in 40+ years of proffessional aviating ....I've not yet been b+++++++++d by Perceived English speakers .
IIRC finals is 4 nm , short finals 2nm, long finals 6-8nm , but all that is open to debate , as it probably won't work on vfr light a/c , and my r/t licence exam was 44 years ago .
Either works for me , whether using my flight r/t lic. or my ground radio operators lic .
Speedbird 5611 always rolled of the tongue as five, six, one, one ....and with only the last 1/4 of my big time exposed to the US ..... I could never get used to their way of speaking numbers and always answered ..two , eight , three , heavy etc .
Had a chuckle yesterday when Golf - Alpha 'Whale' called downwind ...flown by a Scot as well .

rgds condor .

Chuck Ellsworth 17th May 2015 18:25

To make yourself more professional you need to be wearing your hi-vis jacket when you call on " finals " so when you get out of your airplane everyone can see you. :E


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