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Flight in the vicinity of an aerodrome 12.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a flying machine, glider or airship flying in the vicinity of what the commander of the aircraft knows, or ought reasonably to know, to be an aerodrome shall— (a) conform to the pattern of traffic formed by other aircraft intending to land at that aerodrome or keep clear of the airspace in which the pattern is formed; and (b) make all turns to the left unless ground signals otherwise indicate. (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if the air traffic control unit at that aerodrome otherwise authorises. Order of landing 13.—(1) An aircraft landing or on its final approach to land shall have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or on the ground or water. (2) An aircraft shall not overtake or cut in front of another aircraft on its final approach to land. (3) If an air traffic control unit has communicated to any aircraft an order of priority for landing, the aircraft shall approach to land in that order. (4) If the commander of an aircraft is aware that another aircraft is making an emergency landing, he shall give way to that aircraft. (5) If the commander gives way in the circumstances referred to in paragraph (4) at night then, notwithstanding that he may have previously received permission to land, he shall not attempt to land until he has received further permission to do so. (6) Subject to paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), if two or more flying machines, gliders or airships are approaching any place for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude shall have the right-of-way. So I was flying the other day and was established on base leg and another pilot stated he was joining long final. Instantly I'm looking everywhere to see him and eventually see him on a course that would almost certainly bring us into conflict. As I'm deciding on the correct course of action, he sees me and breaks off his approach. In that situation what would you have done? My thoughts are that I was established in the circuit and he was joining the circuit so he should have given way (which he did do)... Talking purely UK here - when in Rome do as the Romans |
Bearing in mind of course that it's no good laying in the morgue knowing that you were in the right.
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It would also help if pilots would use the terms 'Final' = Up to 4nm out, and 'Long Final' = between 4 and 8 miles out, correctly.
Or, even better, make final calls with distances, when joining 'straight in'. eg. ' Final Rwy 28 at 3 miles MJ:ok: |
Final at four miles? Jeez, are we all flying jumbo jets?
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Bearing in mind of course that it's no good laying in the morgue knowing that you were in the right. No traffic = No Pattern. Yes Traffic = Yes Pattern = Yes Conform. Not difficult. |
I think from previous posts that one of those posting one of the scenarios (Scoobster) is a relatively new PPL, don't therefore think it likely that he's going to try and 'educate' an instructor (arsy or otherwise) in the other plane ! I suppose if he felt so inclined he could file an Airprox that would at the very least cause some inconvenient paperwork.
One for the experience bucket methinks. |
'Long Final' = between 4 and 8 miles out. |
Final at four miles? Jeez, are we all flying jumbo jets? I suppose you advocate PA28s approaching at 3 degrees when on a visula approach to please the VASIs as well? rolleyes: MJ:ok: |
Final at four miles? Jeez, are we all flying jumbo jets? |
?? - I've been on final at ten miles, when offered straight in by ATC. MJ:ok: |
From UK CAA Policy Statement - Establishment and Dimensions of Aerodrome Traffic Zones (ATZ):
An ATZ is airspace of defined dimensions established around an aerodrome for the protection of aerodrome traffic (ICAO). ICAO defines ‘aerodrome traffic’ as “all traffic on the manoeuvring area of the aerodrome and all aircraft flying in the vicinity of the aerodrome”. An aircraft is in the vicinity of an aerodrome when it is in, entering or leaving an aerodrome traffic circuit. |
I've been on final at ten miles, when offered straight in by ATC. Different story if you've been offered it by an ATC controlled airport rather than an a/g grass strip. I've often been offered a straight in where I fly from at 15 nm. |
…so 'Long Final' probably isn't applicable at an uncontrolled aerodrome with an ATZ... MJ:ok: |
The traffic situation could change significantly whilst flying those 4 miles…
:ok: |
The traffic situation could change significantly whilst flying those 4 miles… MJ:ok: |
Whilst the semantics about "Long final" etc is an interesting one I think we are straying away from the basic issue.
If you are satisfied there is no other traffic it is perfectly reasonable, subject to noise issues, to perform a straight in approach at an uncontrolled airfield assuming one is familiar. (Although non radio/radio failure traffic is still a threat). What is not reasonable and potentially hazardous is to barge into the circuit and disrupt traffic which is already established in the pattern. It should be a part of any pilot's training to learn how to join the circuit pattern at all types of airfield. I observe that some pilots who have learned at locations with full air traffic are somewhat lacking when they fly to airfields with no ATSU. The reverse sometimes applies to those who have learned at airfields without ATSU etc. |
I agree. Bob.
It seems more and more the case now though, that each aerodrome has circuit patterns, and joining procedures unique to that aerodrome. MJ:ok: |
I learned something once doing a long final - as a result I don't do them any more. Uncontrolled grass strip, talking to the local military who gave me wind. It was obvious that no-one else was flying so I positioned on long final into wind.
I probably should have twigged this before, but as I crossed the threshold it was obvious something was very wrong, the plane was floating far more than it should and halfway down the runway it was clear I wasn't going to get down and stopped before the hedge. As I was going around I couldn't help but notice the windsock was showing a tailwind ! We're only a couple of miles from the military base and about 12 from the coast, but it would seem that we had a sea breeze conflicting with what the military had. Since then I've always avoided long finals even when the circuit is obviously empty and religiously either join overhead or fly the circuit to inspect the windsock. |
Quote: I suppose you advocate PA28s approaching at 3 degrees when on a visual approach to please the VASIs as well? rolleyes: No. I actually suggest that visual approaches in light aircraft with 3 degree PAPIs available should be flown with 3 white/one red, whatever that may have to do with the definition of 'Final' http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...03621res-1.jpg And watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6q2VKsvQEQ |
It seems more and more the case now though, that each aerodrome has circuit patterns, and joining procedures unique to that aerodrome. Today we had a case of two visiting aircraft who were clueless as to how to taxi to the holding point - don't people carry charts these days? Resulted in much RT chat between them and verbose A/G operator! |
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