Well, I'm finishing my IR in my own plane, so no selling before that anyway. And then I don't want to be without an aircraft for too long because that's when the rut starts to set in. I get antsy when she's away on her annual even, for no particular reason. It's not that I'd planned to go anywhere, I just don't like the feeling that I can't:O. I could always rent if I sold it - that might be an option, but hopefully a short term one. But for now I think best is to keep her and stay away from fancy and costly upgrades as much as possible and save some money for an eventual upgrade later on. This means no paint job and no O/H of engines.

Well I think that is a wise decision. What is that saying about the grass always being greener.:ok::ok:

Mine is also away getting more maintenance, after its annual. The guy did more damage, than fix it........

So, it has been away since 26th July, will not get her back until first week October, and I also require new paint, because the idiot who did the annual, messed up on a paint job I required. The joys, and more money.

I however, have decided to go back to Cub flying, aeros in a Stolp Starduster, and back to some of the flying I really love, paying by the hour for it.

Cant wait to get the Bonanza back, however, until then:)

Look forward to your future updates, take care

I got a ride in a B36 from 1990 the other day with full glass panel. Was a lovely ride! I hope you get your Bonanza back soon.

After almost 3 months at KHHR getting probed and touched un-gentlemanlike in all her cavities, the old girl took to the skies for a brief test flight today. She was happy to be up basking in the California sun and purred like a kitten with her newly overhauled prop hubs and cylinders. New metalwork on her tail feathers as well, so she shook those for everyone to see. No squawks. It was touch and go for old faithful there for a while, but it's not as easy to kill an old 520 as one thinks!

Personally, I was going crazy not flying for so long, so it was very nice to be back in the saddle again, so to speak. Now, I'll just have to rob a bank to be able to afford theat bl**dy annual....:ugh::{

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n20ve/annual.jpg
Getting her tail cone attached just before test flight. There were some damages in the tail previously undiscovered from a tail strike by the
former owner that needed some metal work.

BTW, there was a brand new Skycatcher in at the "garage" as there's a new AD for a reinforcement on the spar/strut attachment point that needs complying with... It's a 30hr job to fix. So it's not only old aircraft that cost money - even brand new ones get it. Aircrafts are not like cars - you are on your own when you buy them - even when they're brand new.

It has been a bit painful. The wait more than anything else.

AD's that needed complying with, dye penetrant on the main spar etc. Then the prop hubs. Hartzell have made them into a Service Bulletin that the prop shops are not allowed to comply with if they want to stay certified by Hartzell... All just an evil scam to drum up sales for new props and hubs. Thankfully, we found one who was willing to comply with just the inspection and overhaul. Then when the props were finally back after a month and a half away, they find dodgy repair work in the tail from an old tail strike. I was not too happy about this late discovery, because that would mean god knows how much longer before I got her back. I grumbled quite vocally, and thankfully they did a quick repair job. Metal work is always the worst, because it takes ages to do.

But all seems to be good now, and she flew very nicely with her newly overhauled high spark magnetos.

Good to hear you're back in the air. Enjoy :ok:

Cessna must be meeting the full cost of any AD, or an MSB, under warranty, surely?

Goldeneaglepilot - Post # 8

What, this one here

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...QdGTwhv1v9bnRw

Did the new owner actually receive it ? :ugh:

Richard, that was very naughty........

You are going to get this thread pulled:{

The unfortunate loss of reason forced upon our dear writer by a gaggle of Aerostars.
 

The Aerostar fever has hit a new high.

I spent two days early this week in Dothan, AL at Aerostar World, Inc just being near Aerostars. Sitting in them, smelling them, touching them, asking the mechanics about them, asking anyone about them. I fell asleep at the motel each night with the POH in my hand, like a complete schoolboy after his first kiss. Thankfully, the owner Don Smith is a veteran Aerostar instructor and A&P and was very patient with all my silly questions and no amount of them fazed him.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar2.jpg
What could possibly be better than a gaggle of Aerostars on the ramp?

The particular object of my affection is N79SR. She's got a ratty interior, engines over TBO, props that need overhauling, avionics from hell etc. But she has a price I can almost, just almost, afford. I came to see her and I only had eyes for her.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar3.jpg
Avionics from the Victorian era.

The others dolled themselves up, pranced around and lifted their wings trying to get my attention, but I knew they were gold diggers and troublemakers. They were beauties, for sure, like models, but you just knew they'd take you to the cleaners and escape with the yoga teacher. I could see through their fleeting youthful good looks like a bat with a Raytheon radar in his back pocket.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar1.jpg
This is one of the prancing 700's. Immaculate, but an expensive date.

79SR was true. She was real. A divorcee and a little bit neglected, but you could tell she'd been a beauty in her younger days with a good heart. Plus she had a lot of the good core stuff you needed - de-ice boots, hot props, pressurized, electric windshield, inconel exhausts, some Machen conversions and a brand new annual. Hell, even an old Bendix weather radar. She didn't have the intercoolers unfortunately, but they can always be added later. 3500hrs, which is not much for an old executive transport lady.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar4.jpg
Would she be my new companion? N79SR is a cute 1979 Aerostar 601P in accountant/dentist white. With the ubiquitous midriff accountant/dentist trim line in two-colour.

I was smitten. Yes, I can hear you all - it does make more sense to buy one that's already done up, where the engines are not past TBO and all that. But only if you can afford that outright - for me it makes more sense to get in cheaper and upgrade as you go. Another thing is that California levies a so called 'user tax' on aircraft. It's a bit like stamp duty in the UK on a house - a one time sales tax due on purchase. It's a substantial amount - 8% of value (bloody bastards). So it makes more sense to buy cheap and then upgrade within California, rather than buy a dolled up one for more and get stung immediately.

Mind you, I haven't bought her yet. Just seriously considering it. I fall asleep dreaming of Aerostars each night, so I'm afraid I have the fever quite bad at the moment. Hopefully it will pass. Maybe if I lie down and drink a big scotch it will go away... But do I want it to pass?

I convinced Don to let me fly N79SR back to Wichita Falls, TX with him to pick my repaired Commander up. It would cost me more than to airline it there, but it would be much more convenient and most importantly - I would get to fly her. He could teach me one or two tricks on the way. Said and done. Fuelled up and fired up. Passing trough the clouds going out, the airspeed, VSI and altimeter were motionless in solid IMC. Don switched to the alternate air intake without much difference. Cool as a cucumber he said "We got some water in the static lines. No big deal, will drain that when I get back". I would probably have fallen out of the sky inverted if that had happened to me! Thankfully we broke out on top soon after. This meant I didn't get any reliable climb or takeoff speeds for N79SR, which would have been good. We had a headwind all the way, but got a pretty solid 170-180kts depending on winds. Oil consumption was just 1qt for the whole 4.3hr trip to Wichita Falls and pressurization worked fine, so the engines seem to be in pretty good shape. There are no visible oil leaks at the bottom of cowlings either.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar5.jpg
Humming along at 180kts on 32gal/hr over Texas.

N79SR doesn't have the GAMI injectors, so one can't really run her Lean Of Peak. Fuel consumption was 32gals/hr, but with GAMI's the fuel can be dropped down to 25gph for a TAS of about 200kts. Like I always harp on about - that's real fuel economy for a twin. That's what my Commander burns going 140kts and that's almost what some Corvallises/Cirrii and souped up Bonanzas burn...

I got two landings in, and they just feel rock solid these airplanes. You drive them down and they just land with a firm thump - like a little jetliner. Don't want them to get slow, so it's blue line all the way. Around 110-120kts for approach and pattern and then reduce a bit on final and finally walk the throttles off in the flare. I was surprised at how effective the Fowler flaps were. They don't look big, but up close they're almost 2/3 of the wing. Add to this the pushrod controls, and you have a direct feel like I've never experienced. They feel very direct and tight.

I topped off Don and he took off on his own back to Alabama in the night. I checked him later on Flightaware and he'd flown the 690nm back in 2hrs 59mins - average of 228kts at 15000ft. He got to Alabama just a little later than I got to my destination 228nm away in the Commander...

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar6.jpg
Don was one of the early employees at Ted Smith Aerostar in the mid 70's before Piper bought them. He's got 17500hrs in Aerostars alone and has been around them all his life - he only does Aerostars. Great guy.

A prebuy was made by one of the members at the Aerostar Owners Association for another buyer that didn't end up buying her in the end. He said it's a solid little plane with known quantities - you know you need to do the engines at some point, the props need to be done pretty much immediately and the turbos should at least be looked at. Just like it said on the tin. No mysteries. So, will it be me and her? Too early to tell. I want to have her, Don wants me to have her, but I'm still a couple of pennies short and I don't want to borrow. But let's hope she's still waiting for me with water in her static lines when I find that penny!

:):):ok:

Oh Boy ! You are in trouble. It seems you have totally fallen for that sexy thing that just screams "look at me I am so HOT ".

At the risk of being a crust curmudgeon killjoy a few points to think about.

1) 200 kts at 25 GPH.....Ain't going to happen. Your block fuel flow ( ie wheels up to wheels down) will average 38 - 40 GPH

2) Engines over TBO owe you nothing so you have to be prepared to pay for an overhaul after every flight. For a TIO 540 you are looking at $ 65 to 70 K per side

3) Deice is a mandatory for this class of aircraft. If the boots are in poor shape you are looking at 15 to 20 K to replace them

4) Radar is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original unit. If it works it won't for long and will cost lots to repair. A new one is $ 20 K

5) A good autopilot is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original Century 4 system. The Aerostar I used to fly had one. Worked great for years until it did not. After spending $ 11 K over 18 months trying to get it to work the company gave up and put an STEC in it for $21 K

6) You as a relatively low time pilot would crazy not to do a full initial type training course at SIMCOM. 7 K and then 3 K per year for annual recurrent training

7) Insurance will likely be extremely expensive for the first few years. I would not be surprised if the premium is 4 times higher than you AC 520.

Bottom line is it is totally a buyers market for piston twins. Prices are still dropping and supply greatly exceeds demand. What you want is an Aerostar that was owned by a guy like you. That is a guy who has flown their airplane alot and fixed everything as they went along. I bet you have dropped 70 + K on your AC 520 but it will still sell for probably close to what you paid for it. The buyer however will get a pretty good deal. That is the kind of Aerostar you want, one that has had everything fixed.

With respect to N79SR I can bet what its flying history is. Probably pretty regular use until maybe 5 to 8 years ago and then less and less per year with less and less maintenance until the owner finally decides to sell. Airplanes that get regular use generally don't have water in the static system....

Pay now or pay later but you will pay. I think it is always cheaper to shop at the upper end of the market rather than go for a fixer upper.

Sorry for the buzz kill :O

My first though looking at the last picture was oh I didn't know Micheal Palin was a pilot.

Where's your sense of fun, BPF?

:D:ok:

Don has an initial and it's approved by all insurers. 4 day ground and then flying. It's $2600, so not bad. At SimCom and FlightSafety you pay for the real estate, the crisp white shirts and the donuts that accompany your Nespresso coffee.

You're right - she hasn't been flown a lot the last 10 years. About 100hrs/year, with the last 2 years almost nothing. She'd been sitting on the ramp for a few months before we took her up, so has been rained and weathered on. Aircraft that don't fly much are never the best behaved ones, but I don't have the option of buying the completely mint 700 Superstar II with factory overhauls. I could never afford that.

My engine o/h prices are quite considerably different from yours, but I'm not arguing over the other items. Probably about right. Autopilots, radars and boots are all nice, but they're not essential for basic flight, so can be deferred to later if in a pinch.

One thing is for sure - the engines will cost less to o/h than then orphaned GO-435's I run now...;)

That sounds like a man who has already signed the dotted line.

Stand by for a new Aerostar thread. Adam, I am sure it will be as entertaining as your superb AC thread.

In a couple of years time BPF will post, the old.....I told you so:eek:

I would never do that.

My intent was not to say "Don't buy an Aerostar" just a few cautions about buying this class of aircraft from the bottom of the pile. Over 30 + years of GA flying I have seen first hand the perils of this strategy.

As for practicality.......well I own a Nanchang CJ6, a totally impractical but supremely fun airplane and I tell everyone I spend most of my money on My Woman, Good Red Wine and Airplanes, what's left I spend foolishly.

Yes the SIMCOM course is expensive but the SIM allows training that simply can't be done in the airplane. The first SIMCOM course I did was a C 340 recurrent. Since I had 2000 hrs Multi PIC and 300 hrs on the airplane I thought my boss was wasting money. After 3 days I was a believer. I did a bunch of stuff I had never practiced including engine failures right after rotation, high altitude upset, double engine failures, prop over speed and numerous extremely realistically presented systems emergencies. None of this can be safely done in the airplane.

My advice is take the initial with your guy and then do the recurrent in the SIM.

Well, I've signed the dotted line now, so there's obviously a sucker born every minute. A brand new world of pain has now opened its fanged jaws as the keeper of a complex thoroughbred. I can see the bills already. Forcing me towards insanity's door is the fact that I won't get her until end of May, so I have plenty of time to stew in my lack of judgement. But hey, let's go out with a bang and what good does savings do you anyway? Who needs a house when you can sleep in the plane?

Plan is to get her home soon after and then get enough training to satisfy the insurers and finalise my IR on the over TBO engines, and then towards fall overhaul both of them on the cheap. Engines alone can be done for about $18K/piece - I've gotten quotes in. Then on top of that comes turbo's (two on each engine) for about $1500/turbo and then magnetos/hoses etc. A big chunk, but actually a lot cheaper than doing the GO-435's on the Commander.

I'm sure you will hear more about my ordeals as they progress.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/aerostar7.jpg
A new money pit has reared its pretty face, a 1978 601P. Welcome to the family.

Looks damn fine to me Adam, there are no pockets in shrouds mate.

Good luck. Aerostars fly as great as they look.
As for the costs, well all the good things in life cost money and I never regretted any of the money I have spent on my airplanes :ok:

Did you ask the wife?

I would have to stump up for numerous new kitchens etc etc.

Good luck, she looKs fabulous, and will no doubt bring this whole forum endless hours of financial angst!!!!!!!

Best of of luck and very happy and successful flying :cool:

A great read from beginning to end.

Such a refreshing change to see others sharing knowledge and experience instead of sniping and willy waving at each other found in many other forums.

I reckon maybe a book in your exploits somewhere?

Thanks again Adam

GGR

Don't have a wife or family, so that makes things a little easier. And I do always start my relationships with saying "You can never ask me to sell my plane". Maybe that's why they never stick around?....;)

Thanks for well wishes.

So, I'm finally here in clammy and insanely hot Alabama to learn how to become a safe driver of an Aerostar as well as a responsible owner. I'm both very excited and at the same time have that slight lump in my stomach you get when you've bought something a bit too frivolous...:eek::oh:

Four days of ground school started three days ago, but we've only covered about two days of stuff as Don also has to attend to his business when things come up. I don't mind - it gives me lots of time to go through maintenance logs, logbooks, performance charts, drink coffee etc. Not to mention just hanging around the hangar asking the mechanics annoying questions and nerding out. Today we covered Electric Systems, Engine Systems and yesterday we covered Control Systems and Fuel Systems. Tomorrow is Pressurisation - a biggie.

Don's knowledge of all systems is actually a bit intimidating - not only does he know all the systems inside out, but he worked for Ted Smith in Santa Maria, CA when they built them so there's even anecdotes and reasonings from the design and test phase. It's all very informative, although I did almost nod off when the electric flow charts/diagrams came on the board....

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79...undschool1.jpg
Ground school lump and theoretical test. Ask me anything.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/gaggle.jpg
A gaggle of Aerostars waiting for new owners on the ramp. In fact, the blue obscured fin in the back belonging to 78PA has a new owner who is a gentleman named Oscar Taylor and might sell me his much newer props as he plans on.....

A gentleman by the name of Oscar Taylor dropped by yesterday to have a look at N78PA, another 601P, this one from 1978. She's in pretty poor cosmetic shape having sat outside without an annual for over 7 years. But that didn't stop Oscar - he plans on gutting it and using it as a base for yet another one of his turbine single conversions, so he got it cheap. The previous conversion he did is absolutely gorgeous and a minimalistic masterpiece. I'm floored by what he achieved to make just one guy with some help. He bolted a Garrett 850hp turbine on the front and did some major re-design. It burns 36gph up high and goes almost 300kts. He called it the Speedstar 850. The new one will be shorter, a true 4-place, and have a more powerful PT6 up front. He wants to go fast and is aiming for 350kts. Speed is his thing. Best of luck to Oscar, who's 77 years old. I hope I can start projects like that when I'm his age.

Oscar wanted to sell me his more or less brand new props on the Aerostar he plans to gut. I told him I might be interested, but that any check I write is most likely to bounce as I've now spent all my money purchasing mine. He said he was a millionaire, so it didn't matter.;)

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/speedstar.jpg
...stripping the airframe out completely and building yet another single turbine Aerostar/Speedstar (as he calls it) with a PT6 engine instead of the Garrett.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79...undschool2.jpg
Slide (old school) of the Aerostar's wet wing fuel system. 65gal in each wing and 44gals in the main fuselage tank. The Commander and the Aerostar have some similarities when it comes to fuel systems having both been designed by Ted Smith.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/logbooks.jpg
In the evenings I have plenty of time to go through the log books as well as floss my teeth. So far so good with the logs. Teeth I'm not sure about.

Tomorrow we'll probably break up the ground school and go flying a little even though the grunt of the training in the aircraft will come after the ground school. There are quite a few things we need to cover during that portion. Obviously the usual stuff such as stalls, single engine work and all that, but also systems management in the air and such trivial things as learning how to land the damn thing without my teeth fillings coming out! That would ideally be covered early on in the flying part I would assume.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/cockpit.jpg
Soon we will meet again, dear cockpit.

After all that is done it's time to face the long journey home. It's a good 1650nm trip, so needs to have the WX gods on my side. Just north of Alabama there have been tornadoes and thunderstorms all week - so bad it even made the news. But they will be gone by the time I set off and I'm not worried in the summer months going west. Going east through the northern states would have been a different thing. If everything goes like a dream it should take about 8-8,5hrs flying with no headwind, plus at least two stops for fuel/food adding 2hrs. Going with the light, this is doable in one day, but a stretch. Depends on how tired I feel and if the weather cooperates. This trip would have been impossible to do in one day in the Commander.

If it's clear skies/few clouds I plan on cruising at 16500ft going west now that I have pressurisation. It's nice and calm up there and almost no traffic. Might get nailed with some headwinds up high, but even so it normally pays off to go high with the higher TAS and the lower fuel consumption. We'll see.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/n79sr.jpg
Will the new hatchling make it back to California in one piece with its inexperienced new owner? Time will tell.

Even though Don's course is a pre-requisite/approved for the insurance companies, I will be flying her back to California uninsured (legal in the US, just don't crash on someone's property...:eek:). I don't have the time to shop around and fill in tons of forms and arrange insurance beforehand, so it will have to wait until I'm settled in back home. Plus, I have a suspicion they might want me to get a few more hours with an instructor experienced in type locally as well.

I'll let you know how it goes..:}:ok::)

Great stuff, Adam.

The rest of us can read your posts and get (some of) the thrill of flying the Aerostar by proxy, with none of the expense. ;)

Adam, she looks fantastic, and another thrilling adventure begins:ok:

I loved the bit about insurance, in fact and idea, why not fit a BRS whilst you are down in Alabama, must do something for your premium, and would start another Pprune BRS thread:p

What a gorgeous aircraft:D. Im not jealous at all, you lucky g1t :ok:

great writing Adam,
and that Speedstar is just gorgeous!

Adam, you are living the dream my friend, keep the updates and stories coming they are a great read.

Adam

Congratulations and good luck with your new ride. Just remember always fly on double crossfeed, wait until you are in an uncoordinated turn before putting the gear down, never return the flap handle to neutral, and leave the top cabin door open with your arm hanging out when you taxi :p

What are you going to do with the Aero Commander ?

Thanks gentlemen. Glad you enjoy reading about it. Wasn't sure it was of any interest.

Ha, BPF! The dreaded double cross feed! I'll make sure to always fly that way.:ok::E

Just a small update.

Yesterday I had asked an avionics guy to install a 24V power outlet I can power the iPad with. Don was delivering a Superstar 700 to the next state, so I spent pretty much the entire day annoying this avionics guy as he was installing. After he left, I powered up the avionics master - and nothing happened. Obviously he'd left for the day. I finally got a hold of him again and asked if he'd tied in correctly, but he said he'd wired it to the aux avionic backup switch and that the master had never worked. Long story short, turns out the 30amp fuse had not only blown but welded itself into the fuse holder. Now this fuse holder is tucked up behind the panel in the worst possible place and now we'll have to remove the entire right side of the panel to get to it. Everything's so cramped in these planes behind the panel. Sooo, plane isn't even in my posession yet but has already managed to cost me a cool $500...I hope this isn't a trend.:confused::}:\

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/6du.jpg
Don was delivering this sweet Superstar 700 to the next state to a gentleman who just bought it, so I had the place to myself for most of the day.

On to air work. Today me and Don hit it early. Started with some basic handling, but we soon migrated up to 15500ft to check the pressurisation and how the turbo's and engines felt. The turbos need overhauling as it's been a good while since last time (they recommend to do it about every 1000hrs), so she kind of lost steam around 15-16K. Climb rate was down to about 300-400fpm there and the MAP's were coming down almost 1" per 1000ft. Without the turbos done she'll never get to her certified ceiling of 25K as it is now. I think she'd run out of steam at 20K, max. Pressurisation was working fine, though. This is of course nothing that comes as a surprise to me as it's exactly what the pre-buy said - that's why she was cheaper to buy.

I got stuck a bit with the Century IV autopilot and the Garmin 430 - both are new to me and it's a lot to learn and how they interact. I must be the only person on earth who's never used a 430. Or an autopilot. I'll have to read up and immerse myself in those as I get more comfortable, but for the trip home I'll just use the 430 as a radio, the press HDG on the Century and stick with my iPad.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/don.jpg
Wheeling out my new bird for our first bits of air work. Don is a gentleman, even inviting me home for dinner with his family one evening. Won't let any sloppy flying slide in the cockpit, but that's how it should be.

After that it was time to do some pattern work and get the landings nailed. Was a bit overwhelming at first as it has a few things going on that I'm not used to. I've been spoiled by the simplicity of the Commander. No enriching mixtures, no props forward, none of that on the Commander. But I soon got into it and after about 3 landings I was doing it more or less unassisted. You drive her down, aiming just shy of the threshold, and then just walk the throttles off as you level out. If you flare too high, that racy wing will just stop flying and reward you with an almighty bone shaker. Ask me how I know. It's almost like you just level her off and she'll land on the mains by herself. Let the nose down gently, fly it on, as the mains roll. In fact, she rewarded me with at least three greasers, something I can not replicate on the Commander with any consistency even after over 300hrs on it. That airplane is hard to grease.

Speeds in the pattern: 120kts on the downwind with 20 degree flaps, 110kts on base and no slower than 100kts on final. Very light ruddered airplane and just like a Cessna 172 the aileron is bungee connected to the rudder, so almost no inputs are needed. I overcomtrolled the rudder until Don told me to ease up on the pedals. As you drop to 40 degree flaps, she really slows up and pitches down, so you need to add power to keep from planting her short. So the last stages of flaps can come out really late, otherwise you'll be dragging her in at almost full power. I did that mistake a few times until Don gave me a b**locking. That thin fast wing really doesn't like to fly slow, so the 10 degree and the 20 degree flap settings are more like high lift devices. Wing loves it in that config and there's no speed limit on 10 degree (and a high 176kts limit on the 20 degree) flaps, so it can be dropped early to slow you down. Almost like having a combined flap/air brake.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/c17.jpg
C-17 taking off with - yeah you guessed it - Aerostar vertical in the foreground...;)

One the last approach of the day we did a no flap landing and let me tell you - that was sobering. Coming in at shallow 120kts on final I felt like I was flying a damn Tomcat approaching a hangar deck in the ocean! It was scary how fast it felt. I walked the throttles off and just let her coast down as she finally stopped flying. Man - did we use some rwy. Asked the tower and it turned out to be 6500ft to our turnoff! Granted, I floated forever and we didn't do max breaking, so it could be shortened considerably by someone experienced, but I wouldn't want to go in to anything below 5000ft with no flaps that's for sure. Wow.

Single engine work turned out to be very straightforward. Don't think we're done yet - Don is probably gonna throw me a few hairier ones tomorrow, but today it was all very controlled. Yes, she'll climb fine on one. It's about 300fpm if everything is stowed and done correctly. Blue line is 109kts. However, takeoffs have novel feeling for me as a Commander flyer with a high lift wing. The Commander just pops right off and you can climb at a very high deck angle at Vx. The Aerostar not so much. Rotate at around 80-85kts and she'll be on the mains for a little while. Gear up, and flaps halfway up and it takes a little while before she accelerates up to Vxse (109kts). Key is to lose the flap as soon as you can do so safely, contrary to many other airplanes. It comes right after the gear. This is the proverbial "death zone" between Vmca and blue line where one needs to be on the ball to get it to climb. You spend a little longer there than feels comfortable and if you want to get past it quick, you really need to push the nose over and almost not climb at all. After 110kts she picks up speed quickly and you can pull an easy 2000fpm climb after that. However, Don points out, rightly so, that losing an engine on takeoff is really a no brainer as all your levers are already in the right config. Your throttle's at max, your props are full forward and your mixture is full rich. All you need to do is pitch over, step on the rudder and get rid of flaps and gear. He might have a point, but I still hope I don't have to try it for real. Don's had a few and he's still here to tell about it, so I guess it can be dealt with with good training.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/door.jpg
Venting after heavy perspiration from new owner stunk the place up. As you can see the pilots seat is slid forward to allow access into cabin/co-pilots seat. That's how Ted Smith designed it, for some reason.

Will see what curve balls tomorrow brings. All I can say is that, so far, I absolutely love the airplane! It flies like a little fighter. Feels young and firm (not in that way, you perverts) - no squeaky noises and funny things going on. The torque tube direct controls makes it feel different to anything I've flown before. It's so direct, has that solid feel. Even the landing gear has that big airplane thump and firmness as it arrives. It's fast, it's economical (at least on fuel), it's got great visibility etc, etc. Which leads me to BPF's question: What to do with the Commander? Well, I've been thinking about that all week and I'm none the wiser. After this, I realistically won't be quite as excited about flying the Commander as I've been. It's just a completely different thing. On the other hand, I will not get very much for her with her over TBO engines and peeling paint. And she does things the Aerostar can't do. She can take me camping (like I did last year in the Idaho mountains) - an Aerostar can't do that. But I also don't want her to sit on the ramp and not get flown. Airplanes need to be flown and loved, or they start falling apart. I'd hate to see that happen to the old girl. She's given me so much joy and all things considering it's been a great and reliable plane for her age. So, maybe I'll try to sell her and hope she can come to a new home. And if she doesn't sell, well, then I'll just have to keep her like an antique car and make sure she flies at least once every two weeks and keep the blood pumping in her veins. I don't know what will happen yet, I'm afraid.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79sr/n20ve.jpg
But....how can you not love a face like that? Be a sad they day at the household when she has to go.

Standby.:ok:

I must be nuts but I think the Commander is prettier in a functional, ulity sort of a way.................

Arc

Commanders look good to me, too. The later 500B's and S's are great planes and pretty much close to perfect. If they'd just made them pressurised, I would have gone down that route.

Well, a few years have passed and now I'm selling the Aerostar, unfortunately. We flew all over, I did my IR in her and she was a great plane. I would never have sold ever if it hadn't been for this sucker:

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/680v.jpg
New moneypit object of desire!

Yes, I'm moving back to Commanders! By pure chance, I should add. The ultimate goal was always a Turbo Commander and this old first generation 680V ad caught my eye. I could just about afford it on paper. So I'll be slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to!

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n79...usaerostar.jpg
Unfortunately, can't keep both. Time to say goodbye to this great plane. Spent a lot of money on her doing the engines, so someone will get a great deal. Not a good time to sell piston twins. Will it ever be?

Here are some more pics of the new steed:

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/680v6.jpg
Panel from hell.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/680v7.jpg
Pink leather interior from hell.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/fuel.jpg
Fuel bill from hell.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/repair3.jpg
Repairs from hell.

She's getting de-squawked as we speak. Only flown her about 1hr beginning of year. Probably another 2 months before I get to fly her properly and train in it. Had some pressurization problems previous owner had bizarrely neglected (like a 10000ft cabin at 13000ft ALT max diff?????) and some other smaller problems here and there. Except for pressurization, door not sealing properly and all window seals leaking, no major things...:}

Burns about 60-65gal/hr. But since she's faster and Jet A1 is cheaper, the price per nm is about the same as the Aerostar. Does about 240-250kts. Got good range at 1200nm. Needs none of the recurring inspections (wing spar, gear overhaul, pressure bulkhead) of the later 690 models.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n171at/america.jpg
Basking in the sun at Jackie Cochran airport in front of an ubiquitous American flag. They love their flag here.

So as far as turbines go, should be on the cheaper side to run, ehm…... Exciting times ahead.;)

Adam , thanks for a wonderful story . Just like The Archers.... an everyday story of aviation folk . Keep 'em coming and enjoy 't T'props . ..................


Hesitate to suggest , but Hat ,Coat , Door at the ready...... didn't Aero Commander do jets ? ......long heritage through Israeli ownership up to today ... Gulfstream 150 ..... dreams might be made of this .

VBrgds and blue side up always ,

condor

Adam , you're a consummate story teller ; but what a tree , branches everywhere ..... just found the one with a conversion to PW mini fans ..... from the front has a passing resemblance to a Me 262 !
So I see the jet idea seed has already been sown . Just needs watering .

Great stories , great story telling ; please keep 'em coming .

rgds condor .

Yes they did do jets. The 1121 Jet Commander. Later bought by IAI, re-engined and lovingly referred to as the "Jew Canoe". Westwinds are perhaps the best bang for the buck for anyone buying an older jet. Cheap to get in to ($300K gets you one), built really tough, no major AD's and have great range. The Westwind II will do 3000nm, no problem.

Most people think they look weird, but I think they're sexy as hell with that low slung fuselage and mid wing. The twin front wheel is the icing on the cake. Looks like a hot rod to me.

http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages...erickstamm.jpg

http://cdn-www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/aviatio.../2/1246233.jpg

Adam , don't forget that the Westwind is probably much easier to fly with an engine out that the conversion of the T/prop .
Engines very near the centre line , and not much pitch up or down with power changes . Tridents were much easier to handle with a side engine out than any of th subsequent 73s, 75s, 76s, 74s, L1011, ATPs.

Blue side up ,

rgds condor .