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-   -   AAIB Comment in Clued Up (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/489266-aaib-comment-clued-up.html)

mm_flynn 4th July 2012 11:25


Originally Posted by overstress (Post 7276940)
mm flynn, I am not here to do your background reading for you, I was merely pointing out to another poster that the AAIB do more than investigate crashes.

I can recommend reading their site more thoroughly as there is always something to be learned from each accident or major incident.

Thank you for your comment. I do actually read those that are published on line, understand that they include Crashes and Incidents (summarised as accidents), recognise they do not normally publish reports on infringements and Airproxs (as those are reported elsewhere). As such, all of the data I have (and from your answer you have as well) shows that 'loss of situational awareness as a result of excessive GPS usage' is virtually never mentioned by the AAIB. So to include that statement as part of a list of 'common' findings is factually incorrect on the author's part.


PS
My original question was an honest effort to establish if I was missing some information that the AAIBnmay have published in a location of which I was unaware.

niceday2700classic 4th July 2012 12:47

Rough vs accurate position report
 
I know what you mean about genuine spacial awareness and knowledge of the terrain over which you're flying as opposed to just reading back a piece of information when requested..... but.....

If I ever suffer an engine failure in a single over the channel, I hope to God that I have the opportunity to include something precise (preferably lat-long) in my Mayday call rather than "about 15 miles south of Brighton".

overstress 4th July 2012 13:42

Yes that came over a bit tetchy, flynn, sorry about that. No, I can't see anything in their pubs specifically, but knowing the way they think they must have something in mind, I'll try and dig a little... :)

GPSs have certainly been of use to the Branch as if they survive the impact they can provide useful information...

peterh337 4th July 2012 14:14


GPSs have certainly been of use to the Branch as if they survive the impact they can provide useful information...
Must have been a particularly painful thing to concede that, overstress.

I would suggest a GPS has other uses but I think I've done those to death already.

From your uppercase "B" in "Branch", do I take it you work for the AAIB?

overstress 4th July 2012 14:23

Not at all, I have no problems admitting if I am in the wrong - a CRM skill not shared by all, some get quite defensive, apparently!

You don't have to explain the advantages of GPS, the subject was its disadvantages, quite a subtle difference, but you can't see any...

No, I am not employed by the AAIB and hope to never require their attentions! (They do read PPRuNe occasionally I believe)

I did visit Farnborough a long time ago on the RAF Flight Safety Course.

flybymike 4th July 2012 14:30

Peter, some of us still spell God with a capital G but I am no angel...:)

peterh337 4th July 2012 14:32

I think oil analysis is more useful :)

flybymike 4th July 2012 14:34

One can never have too many back ups.

Cobalt 4th July 2012 16:51


One can never have too many back ups.
One aircraft I rented had the entire set of maintenance manuals in the back. Was useful to keep the CoG witin limits if only flying two up, but could be a problem if trying to get two more occupants into the air safely...

peterh337 4th July 2012 17:09

You may also find its market value affected if it got crashed and the maintenance records got burnt... hmmm perhaps I got that wrong... if it got crashed then the market value would be zero anyway :E

overstress - I thought I had fairly extensively listed pitfalls of GPS previously, but the anti GPS crowd is "anti" on principle. Their approach is usually along the lines of

VFR = visual nav

...which as I said, is fine, if that floats your boat:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/s...25482666_1.jpg

overstress 5th July 2012 09:06

Sorry, didn't have time to go through all 1720 of your postings from the last 18 months! Too busy aviating! Bye! ;)

Pace 5th July 2012 09:19

Overstress

Peter contributes a huge amount of superb detail to the forums. He is a techno freak ;) all fine if your an excellent pilot as I know for a fact he is.
Not so fine if you use technology to cover holes in a pilots abilities. The same goes for any other technology.

The argument is not about for GPS or against GPS but using it to add to your piloting skills not prop them up :E

Some of us post from I phones or handling agent computers so while aviating
Crazy addiction pprune

Pace

paulp 5th July 2012 13:21

I see GPS much like other advancements such as the AI. They all encourage longer and more challenging flights and may have some downside. However, overall I see it as a big positive. GPS in particular is a huge help in today's TFR environment as is down linked data. Combining the two makes navigating in todays's political climate much easier. Airspace is much more complex today than 50 years ago when my cousin was flying her Luscomb cross country.


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