The legal problems as they stand will take years and years to work through. And by the time its been all sorted the core of the pilots that it will effect will have been depleted to such a point that it will just die a death.

I have said before I really don't care either way it won't affect me personally at all. Its just that I am one of the few JAR lic pilots that can be arsed discussing it with you. Most like myself don't give a toss that the loophole is being shut. Which is why you have such a small but vocal core that are fighting this. The majority of pilots stick by local laws and don't use loop holes. 6000 pilots in the EU out of what 200,000 plus its not going to affect at all.

The shortage will continue as it always has of experenced skippers on certain types. FO and below there won't be an issue. Either in the EU or developing markets its the same. And there are enough skippers who want to return to fill the market in the EU many times over.

And its standard practise to say there will be an extension. It lulls people into a false sense of security and helps damped ruptions. Come the day it will go through, there will be all hell let loose for a month and that will be that, instead of another two years of bitching. Realistically I can't see a bilaterial agreement in the next 10 years if at all. It took 8 years for them to sort things out with the canadians and thats still work in progress.

MJ is on his usual form.

???

To political parties from industry and the unions. In fact you have the rare situation that industry and the unions want the loophole shut.

There not per say after the GA side of things but the majority of socalist europe like any thing that kicks anything to do with the USA off there turf.

The FTOs sure want it shut.

The airline industry doesn't care. They are all on AOCs anyway and you can run an N-reg on an AOC (with certain conditions). All the airline pilot unions care about (in this context) is in keeping the IR hard to get because they tie it to "professional pilot" status.

yep there are a few more kicking around most of which you won't hear of because it will be behind the closed doors lobbying.

Lets face it there are 5 of you on here that bang on about it and apart from that nobody really cares.

I think most folk don't want an extension because it will put this !!!!e to bed and then we don't have to listen to a subject that doesn't affect us and we really don't care about. The slight delight that the bloke in the flying club that was taking the piss saying we were all stupid for not going FAA has been proved to be talking !!!!e has worn off years ago.

There is still the fundemental issue that you sticking the finger up at your local laws and the political types will never stand for that. Even if there wasn't back lash lobbying by european operators and the like, they would still want the loophole closed.

Silvaire1. Yes I do see your point, perhaps I was feeling a bit "they're all out to get us" when I posted it;)

MJ, I hate to interrupt your daily rant, but are you capable of writing just one coherent post without excessive use of profanity?

MadJock

Far from not caring you seem to care an awful lot infact I would go to the lenghts of saying that the N reg thing really gets up your kilt ;)
There is no way anyone will meet the deadline of 2012 or even 2014. The CAA have already announced that they could not cope in implementing the changes.
What changes? as the whole lot is so poorly put together that it is work in progress so dont expect any of this to hit law before 2016. I will even lay a bet on it!
Where did you get the figure of 6000 N reg pilots in Europe? I believe its more like 67000!!!
Like previous attempts there are workarounds and this is no exception.
But we have to take EASA at their word! You obviously dont like dishonesty of N REG not complying with your hard earned path to JAA and finding loopholes.
How could anything be more dishonest than what EASA have made promises about in many areas just to placate disgruntled interest groups in aviation?How dishonest can they be at railroading something through in a totally undemocratic way? How dishonest can they be in declaring that their sole intention for delaying till 2014 is for a bi lateral agreemnet?
A Bi lateral agreement has already been signed with an option to add FCL.
EASAs stated intention?
With all the dirt that has been going around with EASA I am sure you will agree that it makes the dishonesty and loopholes of N reg appear like the Pope!!
MadJock you have a lot more than N reg at stake what are you fighting to protect? as it certainly isnt the health of aviation in Europe N reg or otherwise.

Pace

Mad Jock and others,

I think we are wrong to look at this only from the perspective of some 70'000 pilots and owners who understandably stand in front of a disaster right now. But there is a lot more to the method behind all this, than "only" to eliminate a loophole which had become necessary due to totally unreasonable requirements on the side of European aviation legislators.

To be totally neutral on this, I would not know how the FAA would have reacted to an influx of European registered airplanes operating from there. I reckon they would not have stood for it either, but the point is mute, as there was never a reason to do so, while European requirements have prompted many pilots to go FAA.

I am NOT one of them, I have my national license which I understand will somehow get converted into an EASA one next April. Yet, I see what EASA does in a wider spectrum.

ICAO is all about standardisation and about mutual reckognition, which is the base of it's raison d' etre. Without this, international air traffic becomes more and more impossible or, as it already is happening now, more and more nationalized. If we see moves like this one, which is a clear step away from ICAO's principle, there will be more to come. BOTH, EASA and the FAA will need to find a common way here, if we are to continue according to the spirit of ICAO. Otherwise, we will find ourselfs in 2 blocks again, not unlike the former East Block and the West. Some of you called it a trade war, yes, in a way it is.

But more than this, particularly in Europe, it is a concentrated effort to strangle free aviation and to force it into a corset eventually eliminating the need for pilots altogehter. We all know that is science fiction born of the sick mindsets of some of aviations worst beancounters, but that is where many things are headed. There are EASA folks around (and others) who believe that basic flight training can be dispensed with and pilots will be trained to do their first ever flight on the flight deck of an fully automated airliner which keeps pilots just to keep the punters from running off, but who are there to observe, not actually to fly. The same folks plus several others in the political scheme of things see aviation as something hostile, something to do away with and wish to do away with freedom altogether, as it only bothers their bureaucratic behinds. One step to do this is to take away the possibility and incentive to travel. THAT, folks, is happening already. Security, 9-11 scares, e.t.c. is not there to "protect" us but to keep us from travelling. Taking away private air travel is one vital step in this direction, back to regulated tarifs with the airlines and state run everything.

Folks, we need to take the future of aviation away from thes charlatans. Keep your eyes open in your daily life, it's everywhere. Overregulation has always been a fond issue in many nation states, who hate freedom and promote strong political leaders with willing vasalls to follow their every word. The EU has moved in this direction ever since it was formed. That is why certain large members of it are now taking matters in their own hands. One up to the French, who won't be bullied. Now it is up to everyone else not to be bullied either.

And our Ameircan friends, keep at it over there. The concept of freedom the American is used to is not a God given gift but it needs to be fought for every single day. If you want to know where you'll end up if you don't, just look at Europe.

best regards
AN2 Driver
(Whose AN2 has long gone the way of all worldly items thanks to the Cologne Gang)