Bose-X
 

You are assuming that this is being driven by NATS & the CAA it is not, it is being driven by people who could write all they know about GA flying on a postage stamp but with total power in the name of so called security so you can expect the same amount of common sense as you get when you check for a flight at an airport.

If we don't get a workable system in place by October we never will because I am told that is when all the charts are to be printed.

Southend
 

I'm currently a student at Southend Flying Club which is just within the restricted zone. I was asking the instructors there how they were planning on running the club over the period and I think they're really struggling.

There was talk that they were going to move all the a/c to a small strip in Norwich so their students could still fly but it's a long way from Southend.

They quite often end up behind time by lunchtime, and as S-end ATC are requiring a flight plan to be filed at least 4 hours before the flight with a specific brakes-off time, it isn't going to work for them.

I think they're just going to have to shut up shop for a few months and just ride it out, but it's going to be a struggle for them.

KieranBal

Bose-x
 

Just for you I have copied the "how the airspace will work" part of the NATS website.

1.File a Flight Plan on AFPEx or AFTN between 24 hrs and 2 hours before take-off and follow it - no airborne or faxed flight plans will be permitted.
2.Receive an acceptance message and approval number to flight plan.
3.Establish and maintain 2 way RT with appropriate control agency quoting approval number.
4.Squawk and maintain discrete transponder code as allocated by the appropriate control authority.
5.Receive an ATC service and comply with ATC instructions.
6.Circuit flying is permitted at airfields within the Restricted Zone without the need for a flight plan provided ac squawk a discrete transponder code. Airfield managers must contact the appropriate control agency daily at commencement and cessation of flying for allocation and return of a daily changing code, and aircraft may not leave the visual circuit except on landing or in accordance with the rules at 1-5 above


* As defined by the ANO. ** Position reporting can be by OS Grid,

You will see from the first line that the flight plan must be followed and that no airborne flight plan can be filed, this seems to indicate that a change of intentions is likely to not be approved.

A and C,

I already posted that in total earlier.

So where do you get the impression that not being able to file a flight plan in the air restricts you from being able to terminate an existing plan?

LAT/LONG STAY1/0100 LAT/LONG inserted at the appropriate point in Field 15 and STAYINFO1/VFR MANOUVERS OVER LAT/LONG FOR FLT TRNG in Field 18

.....is part of a correct and valid flight plan ;)

Yes quite true but I wonder if the people driving this will understand that flight plan?, these are the things that need sorting before this is all set in stone.

I take the attitude that this is being driven by people who dont understand or give a damm about GA and Bose-X is taking the attitude that we will be dealing with people who will be fair and reasonable.

It is strange but I have found my passage through life has often been easier when I have started off with the approach that people are fair and reasonable rather than hanging them from a lamppost in case they may not be......

I can use a whole load of other euphemisms such as don't judge a book by it's cover etc but I hopefully you get the point?

I might treat people as if they are going to be fair and reasonable but to actualy think that is the truth of the matter is unwise to say the least.

Well the proof will be in the pudding......

To be pedantic I would call that more of a metaphorical platitude than a euphemism. ;)

I politely concede Bose X is (always) right, NATs are the authorising body, not Dft/HMG. The LAA/BMAA etc. can relax.

mikehallam

Why the sarcasm Mike?

NATS are the controlling authority and responsible for managing the airspace. They are also responsible for answering any questions we as users may actually bother to ask.

Feel free to bury your head in the sand and sit out two months of flying to prove you were right.

Personally I intend on flying by following the guidelines.

I would have thought that fair and reasonable would be the way to go.
Sadly we pilots have been so attacked in very unfair and unreasonable ways that I am afraid i have become very sceptical of any fair and reasonable with anything to do with aviation regulations.
Just look at the charade from EASA. False promises, smiles,tea and biscuits but with empty promises.
Our IMCR rating a proven safety rating shafted!
The N reg debacle?
Sorry fair and reasonable is not in the dictionary when it comes to aviation nowadays.
Scepticism false promises and doubt yes.

Pace

What ever gave you the idea that NATS are controlling never mind an authority?

They are an Air traffic service provider.

They just do what they get told to do.

As part of the contact they have provisions which they must provide in relation to information distribution. But if they don't have the information they can't distribute it.

They advise and provide technical consultancy to the relevent goverment deptments before policy is made but have no right of veto or for that matter ability to dictate a change in policy.

Sorry, nothing personal. Timothy and I have been having a bit of a rant about abuse of the English language on Pprune lately (due to some horrendous posts on the Skyferry thread.) I have just been over excited and winding down, but have now reverted to keeping quiet again.

Members of & LAA/BMAA and other leading UK pilots' organisations have been working together via NATS to negotiate with HMGov. (if allowed) easements in the Ban covering not only London, but surrounding counties & beyond for the main summer flying period next year.

Summary, copied from HMG Issued Ruling (Not NATS !) for mid July to mid Sept. 2012 for the greater Restricted zone.

Microlight... All powered fixed-wing aircraft.

Flight is prohibited, except by adhering to the regulations, limited by ATC capacity.

File a Flight Plan 24 hrs to 2 hours before take-off and follow it. Receive an acceptance message ... use RT quoting approval number.
Squawk allocated discrete transponder code. Receive and comply with ATC instructions.
Circuit flying is permitted at airfields within the Restricted Zone without the need for a flight plan provided a/c squawk a discrete transponder code.

mike hallam

At last..... And comments on exemptions for non transponder aircraft?

'At Last' was simply taken from your own long post.

mikehallam

Ah right so we are back at square one. I thought you were posted something from the LAA/BMAA when in fact you were just adding bold to try and make me believe that if you but it in bold it changes the interpretation?

What I am trying to establish is where it says absolutely that an aircraft without a transponder will be unable to operate in the restricted zone.

If there is a part that concerns me it is "limited by ATC capacity".

I alluded to this earlier with reference to the authorities allowing themselves plenty of wriggle room.

What exactly does it mean?

Well it seems clear it could mean that if it suites ATC to have 10 aircraft in the zone at any one time, 10 it will be. In other words we are all trusting NATS to ensure they have the capacity to handle ALL the traffic that will want to operate within the zone during this period of time, or, if they dont have that capacity to enable the vast majority to do so. If they dont, from a practical point of view, we could see restrictions that amount to the zone becoming an exclusion zone other than in name only.