New NPPL
 

Does anybody know about this NPPL?
I heard it would make the minimum number of hours 32 to get the license instead of the current 45. is this true? if so when will it be introduced? If i started to learn to fly in 1-2 months and it took me about a year then would i be given a NPPL or the ppl they have now.
what advantages does the new ppl have over the old one? why have they bothered changing it?

Tiger_Moth,

The simple answer to your question is that no-one is yet sure when it'll be introduced. As to the advantages and disadvantages and other details, there have been articles and discussion on the NPPL in all the flying magazines such as Flyer and Pilot recently. If you're not reading these yet, you should be, if you're serious about flying. There's a lot more to being a pilot than learning how to manipulate the controls.

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

At the last meeting of the NPPLSC, it was decided that the target introduction date being worked towards is, if all goes well, 1 Jan 02; after that you should be able to start training towards the NPPL. However, there are many processes to go through before then, but all parties involved are doing their best.

The NPPL training requirement will consist of, inter alia, 32 hours of training and consolidation PLUS a Navigation Flight Test followed by a General Handling Flight Test. Due to the reduced number of hours required, ALL navigation training shall be carried out in the environment where the licence will be valid, i.e. the UK FIR, and the Navigation Test must be passed before the General Handling Test can be taken - those are the current proposals. So you might be able to do a few hours of GH in the USA at a PPL-farm, but NO navigation or Flight Tests. Which means it won't be worth the bother....

Sounds a lot like the Recreational Pilot Permit here in Canada, which nobody is too keen on. There's nothing wrong with getting a bit more training before they turn you loose; in the great scheme of things what's a few more hours under supervision when you'll (hopefully) log hundreds on your own afterwards?

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Nuke the rainforest- it's more efficient than logging.

Does anyone have any idea what the Instructor training requirements are going to be for teaching to NPPL standard? Are they sticking with current QFI/AFI's or will a new grade of Instructor be introduced?

Here we now have Tiger-Moth requiring the following info on his 'bulls'.

1/ How long does it take to go solo
2/ How do I stop barffing up on my trial flight
3/ Where are they 'nice' at airports
4/ When can I start paint bombing everyone in dog fights (try eating a few strawberry yoghurts before your next flight)
5/ Ohh..AAH,,woyhee,,yup,,,blah,,blah.
6/ I am learning in a Tiger Moth, ooh, woyee, yaa,,,
7/ How do I get an NPL

Whatever next!.

-.-- --- ..- / .-- .- -. -.- . .-. (Message in morse code).

- .... .- - ... / .- / -... .. - / ... - .-. --- -. --. / -... .- .-. -... --- -..- .-.-.- / -.-- --- ..- -. --. / .- -. -.. / . -..- ..- -... . .-. .- -. - / -- .- -.-- -... . / -... ..- - / - .... . -.-- .-.. .-.. / -.-. .- .-.. -- / -.. --- .-- -. .-.-.-

I'm pretty certain that Morse isn't in the NPPL syllabus.

G

.. / .- -- / -. --- - / ... ..- .-. . / - .... .- - / ..-. .-.. -.-- .. -. --. / -- .- -.- . ... / .. - / .. -. - --- / - .... . / -. .--. .--. .-.. / ... -.-- .-.. .-.. .- -... ..- ...

In the 26 postings by Tiger Moth that I have been able to find he has displayed a breathtaking ignorance and an equally breathtaking arrogance in giving (duff) information in response to genuine questions.

Tiger Moth, I know you are only 17 but please try to learn something about the things you profess to advise on before posting. You ARE the weakest link - I wish you'd say goodbye.

(Sorry to post this publicly but you don't appear to have an email address)

Go easy Calibahn, I've only seen some(admittedly naive) questions from TM, betraying youthful enthusiasm, and one of the virtues of this place is that it's somewhere you can ask questions, silly or otherwise, and get quite good answers (usually). No point slagging each other off here like the pros do in R&N and Jet Blast. :)

Edit: Seems I've just more or less repeated what Wrong Stuff said in Morse above

As Calibahn's Shakespearean namesake said:-

- .... . /.. ... .-.. . /.. ... /..-. ..- .-.. .-.. /--- ..-. /-. --- .. ... . ... /... --- ..- -. -.. ... /.- -. -.. /... .-- . . - /.- .. .-. ... /- .... .- - /--. .. ...- . /-.. . .-.. .. --. .... - /.- -. -.. /.... ..- .-. - /-. --- -

(or perhaps he was referring to Sunday afternoon on 124.6?)

[This message has been edited by FNG (edited 22 April 2001).]

Is the Farm a bit soft for take-offs today Cahlibahn? :)

TM reminds me of a couple of people we know from the other place. Do you reckon they're related? :)

-2Donkeys

I know, I know - youthful exuberance is a wonderful thing but I'm far too old to tolerate that sort of thing :)

What really set me off ranting was TM's 'advice' to do a packaged PPL course (40 hours, hmmm) for £2600 at a location of my aquaintence. In fact it costs £3995 (and, obviously, covers 45hrs flying training).

Don't mind the questions but the 'advice' sticks in my craw....

2Donkeys, yes the strip is unusable, thank you for asking :mad:

*Cahlibahn retires to the snug clutching his glass of milk stout and cogitates on the failings of youth* ;) ;) ;)

No, there's nothing wrong with youthful exuberance. But I too am concerned about Tiger_Moth giving advice on things he knows nothing about. The thread which worried me, and Cahlibahn as well I think, is in the "Questions" forum, called "PPL: How Long". It is a genuine query from another 17 year old. Read it and you'll see what I mean.

Tiger_Moth, you have a right to post whatever you like, as has everyone on PPRuNe. But there are real experts on here, people with thousands and thousands of flying hours, who know more about flying than you will for many years. There are also people of less experience, but who can advise on such things as flying schools FROM THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE.

Maybe you should stick to just reading the forums and asking questions for a bit. Not for ever, just for now.

This is meant as friendly advice and I hope you take it that way.

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

Tiger_Moth, for once let me provide you with some CONSTRUCTIVE advice (for a change).

1/ Read and digest Trevor Thom Book 1 (Flying Training) paragraphs relevant for your current lessons.

2/ Read Trevor Thom Book 2 (Air Law) and FULLY understand this as you will HAVE to pass Air Law exam before you can go solo.

If you then require ANY constructive advice, just ask on here in the correct way and we will all be willing to help, however more time spent on Trevor Thom and less on the Internet should be the order of the day!.

I personally feel that taking your PPL in a Tiger Moth is wrong, it is certainly not a choice I would advise.

Take your PPL in ANY suitable training aircraft (PA28/C150 etc) then simply get checked out in a Tiger Moth afterwards (maybe 5 hours or so could do it).

I doubt that much of the PPL training in a Tiger Moth would suffice for PPL anyhow, unless of course it has a FULL avionics kit (VOR/ADF/DME/Mode C etc), which is doubtful, I would also reckon that your Nav Qual would be rather difficult as landing taildraggers on tarmac(Nav Qual is usually 2 landings in controlled airspace at 'real' airports) is for the experts, certainly NOT low hour pilots.

It would also be rather difficult (and a handful) trying to manage the cockpit with charts etc in an open cockpit.

Tandem aircraft are really not the best to learn, it is far better having the instructor ALONGSIDE you and being able to SHOW you what to do, this is just NOT possible in a tandem.

C150 or PA28 is best, at least you can trim them in and look at the charts etc!.

And boy oh boy morse is difficult to read in written form,,,,,and I read (and send) morse at 30 wpm!.

barbox,

Excellent advice. Tiger_Moth, I hope you're listening.

But I was so SO glad to read your last paragraph. Having just done the CPL navs, and passed Morse with no problems, I wondered why I was finding it almost impossible to read it! I'm glad it's not just me :) :) :)

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

It is because morse is better typed as it sounds not dots and dashes but dit's di's
& dah's.

dahdahdidah dahdahdidah (should sound like god save the 'Q'ueen?)

Morse is music, and like music it is difficult to read in the written 'mode'.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.............sorry?

Barbox inparticular seems to hate me!
Barbox I agree it would be easier to learn in a side by side plane than a tandem one but it is obviously not impossible in a tandem aircraft. I dont have the financial ability to learn on a piper/cessna and then just convert. If I did that I would not be in a Tiger Moth for 7 years, unless I won the lottery or something. I`ve worked it out carefully. My ppl is about having FUN so I`m going to learn on the plane I like best, I`m not intending to work my ppl up to a cpl or anything. All the same thanks a lot for your advice.

If a trial lesson on the Tiger Moth is £90 for 40 minutes I assume that a 1hr lesson will be £135. You could get an hour and twenty minutes on a C152 at Cambridge for that (and rather more time elsewhere).

45 hrs on the Tiger Moth for £6075 or on a C152 for £4680? Is the undeniable joy of flying the Tiger Moth really worth £1400 during those early training days?

Tiger_Moth,

I don't quite understand this. Firstly, are you expecting to get your PPL in 45 hours? You may do, but most people take longer. This isn't always to do with your ability; you can be scuppered by the weather, a change of instructor, all sorts of things. Secondly, what happens once you've got your PPL? Do you intend to go on flying? If not, you'll get rusty very quickly, to say nothing of having to do 12 hours in two years just to keep your licence. And most of the fun of flying comes after you've got your licence; getting a PPL is quite a hard grind actually. Yes, I know trial lessons are fun; they have to be; the schools want you to carry on!

What I mean is, if you're so short of money that you can only just afford to do a PPL given ideal circumstances, then doing it in a Tiger Moth is only going to make it hard for you to complete it at all. And if you're not, then why not learn on something easier, rather than probably pay for a lot of extra hours of dual flying?

I know you've set your heart of doing your PPL in a Tiger Moth. I just wonder if you're not caught up in the romanticism of it, rather than looking at the cold reality.

And by the way, we don't hate you. :)

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 27 April 2001).]