Genghis,

I think gyros win on both (a) and (b). Why aren't I flying them? Perhaps it's time for another PPL!

After all, they nearly hover, don't they.

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To fly is human, to hover, divine.

TDD...
I have dropped flap on take off only when necessary, try it on a long dry runway and keep it up your sleeve to escape that appointment with destiny.

Bomber crews did something similar to gain an extra bit of height when fully loaded I believe.

Also somebody called Hoot Gibson gave it a whirl in a 727 once (allegedly)

I read a story recently from Oshkosh about a Waco with a CitationJet engine strapped underneath. That would reduce your takeoff run, and increase ROC I think.

This is a cool forum, whose idea was it?

Just a teeny word of warning.....
If you start using flap for takeoff and your aircraft manual specifies something else (ie. no flap) then you might find your insurance refusing to pay for your extraction from the upwind hedgerow..... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

Sorry to be a BOF - but I checked.

The best short field technique I know is......Lots of hp, min Ibs

01

Warrior Short-Field:

2 stages of flap, hold on the brakes, release and GENTLY rotate between 47-50 Kts depending on the weight. As it climbs increase speed and bring in the flaps when safe

Works for me every time :)
(And where we get our maintenance done is SHORT ;))

I was shown this at Bourn a couple of years ago, those that know the man will get the picture immediatly.

End of runway 01? two fat blokes in a Cessna 152. backtracking for all we are worth, at the piano keys we turn onto runway heading, drop FULL flap, put on full chat, pull the yoke into our beerguts and wait. Oh I forgot, I had to hold L******'s cup of tea.

the wheels left the runway in an ridiculously short time at a ridiculously low speed and we then played with the yoke keeping the groaning cessna about 6 - 12 inches off of the deck. As the speed eventually built up we started to climb out of ground effect and were soon able to retract some flap.

"There you go boy, a short field/soft field Take-off"

[This message has been edited by New Bloke (edited 23 November 2000).]

Goood theory NB, but it just doesn't work. I know coz I tried it over the weekend.
The takeoff was fine but the tea went all over the place....It took ages to clean it all up.
Never again.

This is in my P.O.H. for my Cessna 140 word for word. "For unusually short field take-offs the application of full flaps will be of assistance, applied just before the airplane is ready to leave the ground." It works great!

Skytrucker87

If your calculations were marginal and the only alternative was a road recovery then I would respectfully suggest that road recovery was the more sensible option. I had a share in a Stampe some years ago which was force landed. A well known pilot recovered it from the very, very short field. The fact that he flew into some wires without crashing was a bonus. Road recovery would have been cheaper than the subsequent repairs.

Most of the 'tips' in this thread are unofficial and to my mind are a no, no. The consequences of the any home made procedure not working are to dire to contemplate.

Wee Willy Winkie,

the Stampe story would not have been Bend'em OB would it?

If so, it was told to me by a certain Pitts guru, whilst driving through Leicester one evening!!


sNr

The proceedure of appling full flap during take off was generally intended for wet & soft rwys. Jacks a/c of runway early and allows to accel in ground effect whilst reducing a stage or two of flap. Works well in a/c with manual flaps, C150 & some Pipers.
Requires some skill but great fun, recommend practice on long rwys first.

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Drunk on arrival

I would never change flap setting in middle of the T/O run: if it is so marginal, what do you reckon would happen in the case of an engine failure? As for changing direction at 15 kts: steering failure? The possibilities, which people here seem to have become complecant about, appear to have become meaningless at here. Never rotate at 47-50 kts unless type specifies it: you cannot prescibe a solution based on an average aircraft. Hogher flap settings (if put down in run) require greater T/O speeds remember, so the effect is cancelled out in effect due to the extra drag you will carry in the event of an engine failure, which is the first thing everyone who answered on this forum should have thought of!

Stiknruda

Whatever gave you that idea?

Not what but whom....

a short midlander with a canary yellow Pitts


does that help?


sNr

Speaking of applying flap halfway through the takeoff run... My instructor thought he'd teach me something new on Sunday afternoon. Took off from a rather soggy grass field strip in a PA38, started the takeoff run clean, got to about 52kts and my instructor put down one stage of flaps. Left the ground like a flippin' rocket.

Had my first taste of short field landings as well - 65kts over the threshold, flare, screach to a halt using about 1/5th of the runway. Now I know what carrier landings must feel like...

Anyone understand Lucifer's reasoning as to why dropping flaps during the take off roll requires higher T/O speeds?

Sounds barmy to me.

Inadvertantly took off in a late model C150 with 30 deg of flaps down (forgot to pull them up after checks)into a 15 kt headwind. Went up like a lift......Ah, wasn't it fun being a student.