Aircraft type
 

i've just got back from the US after completing my JAA PPL in a Cessna 152. I'm planning to fly a Grumman AA5 now i'm back which is privately owned by a friend of mine.
Who needs to check me out on this. Is it the aircraft owner or does it have to be a CAA instructor. Basically am i OK to fly this aircraft ??

The law will let you go right ahead and fly the aircraft but i strongly recomend that you do a few hours with an instructor who has some time on the type.

The flight manual is not the best so read it very carefuly as the performance data is hard to extract (another reason for an instructors help)

I would advise not to be "checked out" by the owner as he will probably be not as informed as an instructor who flys the type and if you do something wrong the instructor will be much more likly to recover the situation without a drama.

There's a second issue here - flying in the UK is very different to the USA (we have weather for start!).

Whatever the law says, you'd be well advised to spend a couple of hours in the AA5 with a QFI, doing trips in UK airspace, then you've filled both safety boxes.

G

Avrodamo,

If your ears are burning it’s because other people are discussing your situation on the instructors’ forum under the topic of Differences Training!

Horsepower



[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 01 November 2000).]

Hey Genghis!
<<<...flying in the UK is very different to the USA (we have weather for start!)...>>>
I've heard this argument before, and always found it kind of funny!
I think the weather in the UK is a lot less varied than the US! How may thunderstorms, tornadoes, ice storms, etc. is the average UK flier exposed to...? (in addition to extreme temperatures, high and low!)
Not looking for an argument, just comments...!


[This message has been edited by NIMBUS (edited 05 November 2000).]

Nimbus raises an interesting point.

The US is a BIG place with regional variations in the weather norms. I've flown in California where the weather tends to be friendly and predictable (although you wouldn't wish to get caught near the mountains when the Santa Ana wind blows off the high desert. "I learned about windshear from that."

I've also experienced very unpredictable advection fog and low cloud formation in Cape Cod, where it can all go pear shaped in a matter of minutes.

If we talk about flying in the US, we should perhaps equate the US to the whole of Europe and then try to compare like for like. e.g. learning in California would probably relate to Southern Spain to some extent, New England more like Britain.

Its a good idea for anyone who learns in the US to check out throughly in the UK, as the R/T techniques are quite different, as are some of the customs and practices at uncontrolled fields, e.g. 45 degree downwind standard join, as opposed to an overhead.

Also, carb heat is used less often (in my experience in the USA), whereas I think that most UK pilots would be keener to employ it.

In the US, there can be more teaching of leaning the mixture, often due to operations at higher altitude fields... e.g. at Big Bear City in Southern California, you have to lean on the runway to get full power as you are at 6700' before you start rolling! The difference in take off/go around performance is unbelieveable until you have experienced it.

Final, wing down landing is taught for cross wind approaches as the norm, whereas it is the crab in the UK. I "surprised" one US flight instructor who had never checked out a UK pilot before and we had a good laugh about it over a beer afterwards.

With regard to the intitial point about differences training, it would strike me as a very good idea for a C150 newby to check out with an epxerienced AA5 instructor.

A few months after I passed my PPL, the flying club converted me on to a Cherokee 6 at 70 hours and I was surprised how different it was to a PA28 and more importantly, how easy it was to become comfortable quickly with a few "grey hairs" giving valuable advice from the right hand seat.

I'm happy to justify my comments - and yes I have flown in British snowstorms and Florida thunderstorms so this isn't just banter.

The USA's weather systems are far larger and more predictable, the sudden changes in cloud, fog, precipitation, etc that often catch people out in the UK don't happen in the same way.

The UK often uses overhead joins at smaller airfields, which are almost unheard of in the USA.

Normal circuit radio calls are different in the UK - it is highly unlikely you'd be asked to call base or crosswind unless joining there, and the american "upwind" is called "deadside".

There is no automated weather briefing system at most UK airfields.

Rules on use of transponders are different in the UK.

Terrain clearance rules are different in the UK.

The rules on class D airspace are different in the UK.

The US doesn't operate the British FIS or RIS services, and has no such thing as LARS.

British weather forecasts are presented differently.

The US doesn't have Military Air Traffic Zones (MATZ).

The UK doesn't have automated runway lighting.

If you squawk 1200 in the USA that's "VFR own navigation", in the UK it's "autonomous fighter operations". The difference could be important.

Well, that's the differences that I can think of in 2 minutes, anybody care to add anything?

G

The UK doesn't have automated runway lighting.

Doesn't Shoreham have this now? Hopefully we'll see it more and more.

Cheers!
foggy

Millibars (Oops, Hectopascals) versus Inches of Mercury.

Genghis

I support your overall conclusion completely, but don't rely on "predictable" weather patterns in New England, as it is very variable there! However, I expect that most UK PPL students probably learn in FL or CA where it's as you say.

By the way, the US may not have LARS, but class C clearance (formerley flight following) is pretty good in my experience.

Cheers

I bow to your greater wisdom on New England weather, although I've been there I was being strictly terrestrial and wasn't paying much attention. Having said that, as you say most people who do a US PPL do so in Florida or California.

I don't dispute that the USA has good Radar services, the point was that they are different.

TW - good point, but also add good old QFE.

G

Genghis - some to add...

LAHSO, progressive taxi, Flight watch (Or is it flight service?) , 1-800 WXBRIEF

If I had my cynical hat on I'd also say that although they don't have LARS, in many areas neither do we anymore.
Ian

Avrodamo,

Basically, yes. True, things are a little different in the UK but all of the differences mentioned above can be self-taught on the ground by Trevor Thom etc. There's absolutely no need to spend hours in the aircraft to familiarise yourself with the "technicalities."

I agree you'll need some time "on type" but only enough to make you safe/comfortable. Just watch that nosegear, it bends very easily.

With regards to the weather differences I'm afraid I'm with NIMBUS on this one. I fly to the US almost every week and other than Southern California it's far more severe and unpredictable than we ever see in Europe.

Best Regards,

Shanny

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hhhiiisssssccrrrraaaacckkkllesssshhhhhh

It's all very well an experienced aviator or aviatrix teaching themselves all this stuff from a book - but we're talking about a just-qualified PPL here who is probably still struggling with most of the basic concepts, I still think a couple hours with a QFI is a bloody sensible idea regardless of the law.

My last field landing was in the UK in 1500m visibility in a 300ft cloudbase. Everywhere on route was forecast 2500ft base, 10km viz - there may be places in the USA with weather that does that in 5 minutes without fair warning, but they're not the places that they put the flying schools.

G

Avrodamo

I’m with Genghis

If you care about safety get a check out with a good instructor until you have enough general experience of aviation and types to be your own instructor – and for most of us that is a very long way down the road.

Of course, if you want to take avoidable risks (inside the legal framework) that is entirely up to you.

A little tale to show I mean what I say:

At one stage I had a super day job with an aeroplane that would accelerate at 1.3 g on take off (Mr Newton says 1.3 g from a standing start gives 2.4 secs to the legal limit on the motorway). But I just drove ordinary cars until three years ago. Then I got a little toy that was small, light and had 220 HP so would reach 60 in 6 secs and had no trouble doing 100 in third with a six speed box and was electronically limited at 155. The last time a professional looked at my driving was 43 years earlier when I passed my test. So I booked in to a (very expensive) driving course to learn how to drive defensively on the roads and how to handle the poke on a race circuit. After three days I had learned a lot about the car and myself. They so impressed me with their C.O.D. (Concentrate, Observe and keep your Distance) that now I find I don’t even like to have the radio on when I drive as it is simply a distraction to concentrating.

I reckon the more you know the more you should realise you have to learn . That goes for any trade - but especially flying. IMHO It is never naff to do more training.

JF

On which subject, don't you just hate converting onto a single seater with no 2-seat equivalent.

I've done this on 5 types so far, every one of which has scared me (but thankfully none of which I bent).

Ignore me by all means, but listen to JF. He's flown, and brought back, aeroplanes the rest of us couldn't even contemplate - and has reached "retirement" despite it all (okay, nobody ever really retires in aviation, they just become consultants).

G

[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 11 November 2000).]

<<<My last field landing was in the UK in 1500m visibility in a 300ft cloudbase.>>>

If this is true - then I don't think that you are the one to be giving advice to anybody.

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Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

I can certainly give advice on how to land in small fields. I will also gladly advise anybody who cares to listen that forecast weather in this country can turn extremely rapidly unto un-forecast weather very fast indeed, which was my point in the first place if you missed it.

G

I don't want to get into a slanging match here...but if you are prepared to fly A KITE in 1500 metres and 300 feet (in a small field) then my own personal opinion is that you are an idiot of the first degree.

Either that, or your post was untrue.

Bear Cub - you shouldn't make comments like this unless you know the situation Genghis found himself and why. The fact that he made a succesful field landing and did not end up a pile of scrap at least shows he made the right decision in the end - I don't know why he did not put down earlier, but I at least give him the benifit of the doubt that circumstances did not favour this option!!!

[This message has been edited by foxmoth (edited 12 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by foxmoth (edited 12 November 2000).]