Flight Simulators Which one?
 

I read with interest the thread on what to do when you cannot afford to fly. The software VFR Scenery England & Wales was mentioned for Microsoft Flight Sim 98. Is there an Oz version. It was mentioned in the thread that this helps with PPL Nav skills. I am very interested in developing my PPL Nav skills without actually flying, (not the prefered option, but....). Any thoughts on how to do this? Can flight simulators help?

I found it extremely helpful, and from small aircrafts to big jets. I currently am still using 98 (pc slow) but I update it once in a while with new scenery/sound/panels/aircrafts.

Perhaps you can check this out.

http://www.flightsim.com

There database is quite wide. Enjoy and hope it works for you!

You could also checkout :

http://www.avsim.com/

Good scenery library / plane library etc.

Oz is a hotbed of simming. Excellent scenery available. A lot better I think than here in Blighty. Also the Oz Sim mags cover VFR and IFR navigation.

How does it help?

Plan your route as per normal. Enter some wind/weather or let some one do it for you - so you don't know for sure.

Then fly the route as if it were real life. Use DR and map reading. Or just map reading if you want to get au fait with that.

When I used it I din't plan. I set off then made corrections as cross track errors developed.

I used a plane with an autopilot because I can't trim MSFS well enough to fly and navigate. Maybe that's just my machine.

And of course - you can use it for night navigation.

The beauty is there is no fear at all of being taken out by a Tornado and you can switch all your radio nav instruments off without feeling at all uneasy. ;)

twistedenginestarter, mate, thanks for post. I went out bought MSFS2000 plus fancy joystick. I have just got a new PC for work, so its super doopa. I had a little trouble trimming at first, but got the gist of it and off I flew. Didn't land too well, crashed actually, pretty much dead actually. But I did navigate from an airport to another. I am keen to practice map navigation, so Im thinking the secret is to not have the GPS window in the corner!!

Many Thanks for all replies. MSFS2000 excellent.

Noodle

Cap'n Noodle

What joystick did you get? I've just picked up a copy of X-plane, but the joystick/pedals combination it suggests costs more than going flying in the first place, which kind of misses the point....

Evo7. I work with computers all day, so joysticks and computer games are something I had avoided for a while now. But I can really see the benefit of the flight simulator with regards to flight planning, cockpit management and navigation on route.
To make it as realistic as possible, a joystick is a must. So I asked a few questions to the 'joystick people'.

USB is important. This is the standard these days I believe, and perfomance is enhanced. (A guy at work told me this, if anyone can explain further, please do).

I also believe that feedback makes it more realistic. You want to be able to 'fight' the yoke.

Get a joystick with power control (throttle). The advice I got was to go for a control that sits flat and you increase power along the horizontal, not vertically. Vertical power switches tend to become lose and the power setting doesn't always stay fixed. (No screw to tighten as the norm). This sounded like good advice.

You also need to be able to 'turn your head' quickly. So I got the 360 degree view switcher on the joystick too. Your thumb then becomes your head, so to speak, you use your thumb to turn your head, useful for keeping an eye out for traffic, and looking for runways etc etc.

I used my switches on the joystick for flaps, elevator trim, and I have two more spare.

The joystick I got also has a 'twist' component, which is rudder. You are right about the cost of pedals, very prohibitive. After one flight with my joystick though, the simulation of twisting instead of kicking in rudder is OK. I think the fact that you have think about doing something to trigger rudder is enough, doesn't matter whether its feet, or a twist.

So, after all that, my joystick is a Logitec. The name of it, would you believe I can't remember, but I will post tonight from home, with more details. Cost was 130 AUD. You can get exactly the same without feedback for 80 AUD.

Not sure if these numbers mean much to my foreign friends, given the ridiculous exchange rates.

Hope this helps, please ask more questions and given my limited but growing experience, I will help.

PS How far through the PPL are you?

Captain Out
Noodle



[This message has been edited by Captain Noodle (edited 15 May 2001).]

Thanks for that. Was it a "Wingman Force 3D - Force Feedback Usb"? I did a quick search for Logitech joysticks, and that seems to match your description - pretty reasonable at £37 too. I've no idea what the AUD->GBP exchange rate is, so I could be waaay wrong.

X-plane recommends a set of CH-Products kit that comes to the better part of 300USD - probably 300 pounds, too, given that we normally have a $1 -> £1 exchange rate for computer kit. Looks nice - pretty much like the Tomahawk setup, for a start - but that's way too much money.

I'm not really looking for absolute realism in a flight sim, just a chance to practice things - if it saves me half an hour in the air then it pays for itself. At the moment I'm very much a beginner - only 1.9 hours so far http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif - but I've only just started. Planning on getting 20 or so by the end of the summer, flying when the weather allows during the winter (almost certainly never knowing the UK http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif ) and finishing off the PPL next year, with an IMC if time and money permits.

As far as I remember, USB is a good thing because the data rate is higher (although I'm not sure how much that matters for a joystick) and it can power the force feedback. Not sure if there is any other reason. Convenience, I guess.

All the best,

Evo

Evo, you got the joystick in one. Works well.

I am 120 hours PPL, so I am too still a 'baby'. I can see great benefits of simulator, for me and for you. As you do each real lesson, do it again on the simulator. I started my flying training at Stapleford. I know what the weather is like in the UK and how it can disrupt training. The simulator can help, provided one does remember it is a simulator.

Enjoy learning mate. What school are you flying from?

Noodle

[This message has been edited by Captain Noodle (edited 16 May 2001).]

Just ordered one. Thanks.

I'm flying out of Goodwood, on the South Coast. I live a mile away, so its convenient, and seems like a great airfield. I've been wanting to learn to fly for years, and finally got started - I'm writing up my PhD thesis at the moment, which is a particularly grim experience, so I needed something to keep me sane. Wasn't quite prepared for the addiction, though :)

Evo, Evo, mate......I got the joystick and have been practising on the Cessna 182. I realised I hadn't loaded the software for feedback. I got the box out of the garbo and retrieved the CD. Lucky for me I never take out the garbage.

I tried to load the software from the CD and I got a really strange error message. Some techie message that I had know idea.

Bugger I thought....I will have to call Logitec tomorrow. Then I had a brainwave. If you get an error when trying to load the feedback software, go to the www.logitec.com website. There is some blurb about needing a download. I downloaded the suggested software and presto, it worked. I now have feedback, and let me tell you Evo, it is f@@cken good. Heaps better.

Go for it.
Noodle

Regarding MSFS2000,

I am having trouble getting the 182 down onto the aircraft carrier after an engine failure. If I go straight in I can't lose enough height, if I try a LH circuit approach I lose sight of the aircraft carrier and splash..........

Any clues
Noodle

Bl**dy hell, the Aussie PPL must be a bit harder than our one ;)

I also have a problem getting the Boeing 777 into Wycombe Air Park. Any ideas? ;-)

I have no problem getting it into WW.

The problem is stopping and not ending up in Reading!!!

(I thought that I was the only person sad enough to try such things!!)

Landing the C177, stonking headwind, on top of one of the sky scrapers at Meigs Field is worth a go!!!

Try taking off in a microlight in a 50 knot or so headwind, flying backwards down the runway and landing again :)

Endless hours of fun :)

Captain Noodles mate,

Check out here for Ozmate scenery....

http://www.megascenery.com/titles.htm

BTW, does force feedback give you the back pressure feel on the flare when landing? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by training wheels (edited 23 May 2001).]

Has anyone here got Fly!? I have MSFS2000+98+95+The one before that...But I think Fly! is better. It has better cockpits, and is more realisic overall. Does anyone have any comments. Also, I have a Microsft Pad, that senses motion, which is quite effective especially in the Bell Jetranger on FS98 http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Regards

Mike

MikeSamuel

I have Fly!2K and the new Fly II. I also use Microsoft FS2K and X-plane.
So why all these sims?
Well Microsoft has the nicest "all round" sim with lots of add ons, etc. You can add ProFlight for ATC simulation and there's a huge number of add-on aircraft and panels available. Also, the scenery isn't bad. The frame rates are poor, though.
Fly!2K and Fly II do an excellent job of simulating the aircraft systems. The cockpits are highly detailed and it seems to me that you could certainly work on some basic cockpit procedures with these two sims. There are fewer add-ons available for them. Fly II was supposed to be much better than it actually is, and for moment I couldn't recommend it, although if they ever get the bugs out it will be a good sim. The flight models feel "better" than FS2K and if you have rudder pedals, the toe brakes are actually analogue rather than all or nothing.
X-Plane is an interesting beast since it is the work of one man. It has perhaps the best flight model of the mass market sims but feels rough around the edges. However, the frame rates are stunning.
Avid simmers are waiting with baited breath for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2002. This is supposed to offer the best of everything on mid-range hardware. Since it hasn't been released, it is entirely possible that it makes tea too ;)
More info can be found on the two most active flight sim web sites. These are:
www.flightsim.com
www.avsim.com

David.

Wheels, thanks for the link, I will check it out tonight after work. Not sure the client would like me flying 747s around the office!

Feedback is pretty realistic but not that good. It gives you feed back on the runway, ie bumps.......I was excited when I first felt it but Im over it now.

Evo, The PPL in OZ is definitely tough. Didn't you know that the aircraft carrier exercise is part of the test? I have discovered the secret of getting down on the aircraft carrier. As soon as the engine outs, lots of flap instantly and slow right down, for a straight in approach. Which makes sense given the wind direction. Not sure what a short field approach speed is in a 182, but I can get in doing 60kts. Very sluggish though. You have to line up from a far way out. Stopping yourself falling off the end is another matter. As for making a successful landing and then being handed on to the MP's......what then?

BAL, If I was disappointed with MSFS2000, it was the lack of ATC discipline, something I need to practice. What is ProFlight for ATC simulation?

I am off to simulate myself
Noodle

[This message has been edited by Captain Noodle (edited 23 May 2001).]

I've been using a stick for years now but only recently took the plunge and got a set of the CH rudder pedals. I can't tell you how much of a difference they have made.. Alright I can - they've made a hell of a difference. If anyone can possibly afford the silly prices then go for it..

Cap'n Noodle -

ProFlight 2000 is an add-on from a company called AETI (http://www.simpilot.com/)
Basically you create "adventures" for yourself which contain ATC support. So for example, you'd file a VFR or IFR (more interesting if it is IFR, frankly) and then compile the adventure. Then when you start FS2K, you can load the adventure and Bob's your uncle.
Your side of the conversation is activated via keyboard commands, although you can use a third party voice recognition product for gamers (which I had little success with).
It certainly adds to the overall experience, although you do need to go through the planning steps, which adds to the overall amount of time you spend behind your PC. Still, I don't suppose most of us jump into a real airplane and go, so perhaps that's what is meant by "as real as it gets" :)
The two shortcomings are: (a) lack of flexibility, since the adventure is essentially scripted, (b) FAA terminology and procedures throughout even if you're flying in Australia (although in this version they do have numerous voice sets that are used automatically, so you'd hear a Qantas pilot speaking with an Australian accent). The other minor but highly entertaining point is that it will happily chuck big airplanes into small airports (e.g. "Speedbird 1234 cleared for take-off" when you know that the runway is 2500ft long...)
If really want to be a sad sod (like me), you can add Ultimate Airlines, which allows you to use "real" flight codes and plans for major airlines and routes. So you can be UA954 on a translatlantic route in a B777 or whatever. As I recall, ProFlight on its own has a library of DPs and STARs, so you could potentially use it as an aid for practicing some IR stuff.
Whilst on the subject of heavies, Phoenix Simulations (www.phoenix-simulations.co.uk) do an excellent replacement Boeing 777 and a Boeing 747-400 for FS2K. Precision Manuals (www.precisionmanuals.com) do a 757, 767 and 777 for Fly!2K. None of these are super expensive and they seem to patch them regularly and generally keep them up to date.

Fly has ATC built into the product, as does X-Plane. Again, they seem to be all FAA-based though, so I'm not sure how useful they would be to you.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 is supposed to have embedded ATC in the product, and is supposed to be pretty good for VFR in that you can get flight following and traffic advisories, and it is all dynamic (i.e. not implemented as an adventure, and not scripted).

Hope that helps.

David.