FisbangWollop

This was your posting which riled me last night where you called me a muppet for asking what i thought was a valid question. It was that rudeness that got me to make the statement of not wishing to meet an Air Traffic controller like you.

If you look at the extract you pasted I actually referred to the fact that i did not know the full details or transcripts. Mine was an impression based on snippets of information. You are in a position to know facts.

I fly corporate jets and also have thousands of hours on a multitude of piston twins many of those hours have been over Northern Ireland and Scotland in summer and winter, day and night, so I hold Scottish in high esteem and know the quality of service you offer.

It was late at night and I apologise for my part if you felt offended by my comments back at you but I was offended by your initial response to me.

May I further add that the problem with these forums is you do not see peoples facial expressions and we often say things to each other which we would never dream of face to face

Pace

Expensive if your by yourself.

During my internet crawling there were a couple of groups down south for 6k for 1/12 share 50 quid a month and 55quid an hour wet including local landing fee's.

Puts an hour in a C152 or PA38 to shame.

Has anyone got pics of the avionics fit and the cockpit?

If true about the medical and RT now its public that there are suspicions. I think the authorities would be failing there duty of care to the rest of us both private and commercial if they didn't take it further.

Lets face it, if he gets locked up for it in Jockland he'll be out in no time on compasionate grounds.

Compassionate grounds my backside, they just realised it was cheaper getting him home as SLF than in a lead lined box.

I would have thought they would have looked at the option of barbequing him over here and sending him home in a jiffy bag but the political fall out would have been to much.

And I doudt very much if it does go to court that it will end up doing porridge.
A suitable community service order would be being a tea walla at scottish for a week which would also aid in his retraining.

Maybe true Hatz - but do remember he has to be dying first!

Anyone got any idea what the upper winds were doing on the 12th. I note from a post a few pages back that the Dundee conditions were about 20 mph from the West. Is it possible that Biggles actually had a substantial headwind at FL70 plus?

Well if scottish thought he was doing 70knts and the plane cruises at 115-120I suspect about 50knts which wouldn't be unusual in that area.

madjock:An earlier post suggested that there might be a question over whether he has actually "been through" it; and it seems to me that may well make a big difference to the prospects of a prosecution being brought - perhaps unrelated to the accident and therefore not necessarily in a Scottish court.
NS

Mad Jock

Fisbangwollop hinted in one of his postings FL90 ish and 70 KTS which I presumed is what ATC estimated off his returns. So realisyically 30-35 kts

Pace

I will go with that Pace.

very true NS

And Dr John it seems a kitkat while doing a stint on scottish info makes for a happy FISO can't see you going far wrong with sending a couple of multi packs as way of appreciation.

Or even better make the effort to deliver them personally the whole team down there likes nothing better than showing pilots the ins and outs of what they do. I found it extremely interesting when I visited.

CTSW
 

Pace

Perth to Tiree, Fl10, groundspeed of 107kts each way with a fuel burn of 12lt mogas, heater, room for inflight self catering, helicopter like vis, light precise handling.

Who would prefer to fly a 25 year old spamcan?

T18

Mad Jock


not a bad idea - will pursue this one -what their poison?

Visited Glasgow end of last year and it was an eye opener. I would go as far to say as part of the PPL training a visit to an ATC unit should be compulsary. The effects of all these wind farms of the radar returns was not comforting.

Don't know what there posion is. But I have never met an Airtrafficer yet that doesn't like chocolate biscuits or some shortbread with a brew. Also means the whole team gets a look in.

Also has the pontential for quite a bit of banter with Scottish info telling Talla sector to piss off and get there own biscuits while they munch away making lots of "bloody hell these are good" comments

gasax wrote:
I have absolutely no desire to provoke any microlight-related debate, but the fact that this aircraft was a microlight is highly relevant here, as the law and regulations that apply to the operation of microlights is more limiting that that which applies to a standard GA type. Of particular relevance are the licence and Permit to Fly restrictions that apply.

VP

where has biggles gone in the last few pages, I guess common sense and reality have kicked in and he has shut up at last

NorthSouth has a very good point there, if indeed our intrepid Biggles was out of Medical / Currency and a variety of other ticks in the boxes then that changes things significantly.

Since a portion of the flight took place in English airspace then an offence was committed in England and a case could be brought through the English courts (allowing the CAA to recover all costs).
The evidence from EDI ATC et all and the final outcome of the flight would just be used to strengthen the case further.....

Personally, if he has knowingly flown out of check, medical etc then I hope they make an example of him.

Actually Fisbang are you still an AFISO after all the service changes

Surely you would now be an ABO or as we normally shorten it a BO.

I am sure none of your collegues would cruel enough to refer to it as a "BeeO"

:p;) MJ who will get a FAll service next time he asks for basic.

Also bearing in mind a point I alluded to earlier, when he turned south over Dundee, he should have been at a height where he could 'glide clear' with an engine failure. This he clearly did not do as he landed on the golf course.

Here we go again!:ugh:
As far as I am aware microlights are allowed in class D.
Permit a/c are allowed in class D. And since recently, over built up settlements.
VFR was complied with.
VMC was complied with.
NPPL daytime only was complied with.
UK airspace? does the Hieland Republic of Jockistan constitute UK?
Is there anything else that I've missed?

All this speculative talk of prosecution is hardly going to enlighten the average PPL of the navigation and flight planning errors of our hero.

I take it that we have nothing further factual to discuss in the past few pages. There are many useful points on planning and wisdom of choosing to fly in certain airspace that are otherwise lost if we progress with further speculation on old VH's fate.

As we can at least all agree that there is little public interest in prosecuting anyone who certainly had no intent of breaching rules and/or best practice, it is highly probable that the relevant authority will take the same view.

It is also unlikely that our hero will be as open and communicative with the CAA and AAIB if such talk continues - hinderance of any investigation that takes place by such talk is therefore, surely, counterproductive for flight safety.

I think the point being made is (and without knowing all the facts impossible to know for sure) that what happened was not just due to inexperience.