Will it ever happen? Microlights
 

Hi,

I know you can get 1,2 and 4 seat microlights but do you ever think there will be a 5/6 seat microlight allowed?

Also do you think they will ever lift the "no night flying, no imc and no abroad" ban?

Matt

Four seat microlights?

A microlight is an aeroplane below 450 Kgs, with a maximum of 2 seats!
What do you think?

You can fly abroad. And they only hve 2 seats.:confused:

A microlight is an artificial definition, two seats, lightweight - light regulation.

You can build bigger heavier aeroplanes, but they're not microlights, simple as that.



Re: night and IMC. There are legal mechanisms that would allow you to negotiate this now through "special conditions"; the reality is that it's a lot cheaper and easier just to buy an aeroplane with a CofA.

There's never been a "no abroad" ban, it's just that the aircraft aren't ICAO compliant, therefore you need approvals from the countries you're flying to. Again, you could circumvent this by following ICAO procedures - but why on earth would you bother when most countries will let you in on the basis of a few faxed documents.

G

There is a new category of European Light Aircraft – 1 (ELA-1) for short. This is to be based on CS-VLA / US LSA rules and will allow many of the advantages of the micro with 4 seats and low running costs.

As has been said the touring side is not a problem, and the IMC/Night is not too much of an issue unless you have an IR which less than 1% of European pilots have.

I fly a home built VLA (based in Staffordshire) and enjoy most of the advantages of a micro but with more useful load, speed and equipment (CS prop etc).

Rod1

Currently the Uk microlight fraternity has escaped the attention of the leaden hand of EASA and its €urocratic rule making.

Long may that continue.

But if you pushed for the weight limit to be raised to the VLA/LSA limit, that could well mean that €urocratic bull$hit would be inflicted on all UK microlights. Something which no-one wants to see!

ROD1,

Would i need an NPPL for vla or PPL?

Also where do you fly from?

Matt

P.S I said 4 seat as part of the NPPL restriction on google says you can carry 3 passengers. I cant see 3 passengers all squeazing on 1 seat?!?!

Beagle,

care to enlighten us what you're on about?

I think beagle is saying that microlights are less restricted than vla and by pushing up the weight to match the vla it would inherit the same more restricted rules.

Matt

alphamatt, yes, that's indeed what I was 'on about'. Quite how he failed to understand is hard to see....

To fly an aeroplane heavier than a Microlight on an NPPL, you would need to add an SSEA Class Rating to your NPPL. Or, if it's an SLMG, an SLMG Class Rating.

The SSEA limit is 2 tonnes and 4 PoB (including the pilot). Anything more and you would need a PPL(A) with SEP Class Rating.

Seems like you are reading NPPL as a Microlight only thing. It is'nt, NPPL (SSEA) allows you to fly a 4 seat, wobbly prop, retractable or seaplane at over 140knots. With all the appropriate differences training, but only in UK airspace during the daytime in VFR. So I believe.

Let me see, if it's (registered as) a microlight, it's a microlight.

If either it can't (e.g., because of MTOM) or is not registered as a microlight, then it's a VLA or a light aircraft. It might be the exact same aircraft, but subject to different rules.

In any event:

I think this might be subject to discussion--in some aspects they are (minimum certification requirements), in others they're not (lower MTOM, minimum certification requirements, ability to log hours towards currency requirements / issue of a higher licence). Which is why it's good to have a choice.

Says who? As far as I can tell, not the CAA. A heavier microlight still is a microlight if the legislation in force says it is.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but now that you have explained, it just seems like a pointless rant and a non-sequitur to me. Thanks for the attempt at clarifying though. :confused:

LH2,

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today? , No need to argue surely.

Matt :ok:

And why not?

No, seriously, it's just that the comment I replied to does not make any sense at face value, so I was wondering if there was something I missed, that's all.

A European VLA has a MTOW of 750 kg.

A US LSA has a MTOW of 600 kg (for landplanes).

The UK microlight MTOW is 450 kg (except for aircraft with ballistic recovery systems).

Regulation of UK microlights is looked after by the BMAA and CAA. It will not be affected by the nonsense of EASA.

Certain EC countries wanted to raise the Annex II limit so that VLAs wouldn't be over regulated by EASA. The BMAA emphatically do not want this, as the fear is that, if the 'microlight' MTOW was raised to the VLA limit, then this would mean that EASA would inflict its heavy-handed €urocracy on all UK microlights - and the current 'light touch' regulation would be lost.

VLAs which weigh more than 450 kg can only be flown on a UK-issued licence on a SSEA or SEP Class Rating and the aircraft themselves have to meet LAA standards.

“Regulation of UK microlights is looked after by the BMAA and CAA.”

20% of the LAA fleet is Micros, so I think you would have to include them in your list! My understanding is that ELA-1 will be up to at least 750kg, possibly 1200kg and that the word microlight vanishes completely?

Rod1

Whilst there may be microlights in Laa-laa land, their regulation is surely a BMAA / CAA issue?

The whole Microlight / Very Light / Ultralight / Light Sport / Quite Light / Really Rather Light / Not All That Heavy definition is indeed a pile of poo. A single definition would be ideal - provided that it did NOT come with €urocratic heavy-handed over-regulation!

“Whilst there may be microlights in Laa-laa land, their regulation is surely a BMAA / CAA issue?”

No, the LAA aircraft are regulated by the LAA with CAA oversight, in the same way that BMAA aircraft are regulated by the BMAA with CAA oversight. The BMAA have no technical info on the LAA fleet, as the two organizations compete. Interestingly, as far as a home built aircraft on the LAA system is concerned, there is no difference in the weight of regulation between an aerobatic RV with 200hp, my VLA and a Micro. The only “step up” is for 4 seat aircraft.

Rod1

There is a lot of truth in that but while one can obviously fly anything unofficially in IMC when enroute, there is an issue with the build quality of these very lightweight planes: they tend to be rather flimsy and one would be pretty brave to be chucked around in IMC, perhaps collecting ice.

IFR certification is going to be really tough for most of them - even when it becomes legally possible.