ELT required in the Netherlands
 

Can anyone clarify the requirement to carry an ELT in the Netherlands?

AOPA UK • View topic - 406 ELT Holland

If on an International flight you need an ELT
If the aircraft's first C of A was issued after 1 July 2008 it must be an automatically activated ELT.

PLB's are not acceptable

Now I am lost :confused:

Is my old 121.5 FITTED to the aircraft with automatic activation is legal in Holland or do I have to replace it with the 406?

Thanks.

http://www.ais-netherlands.nl/aim/AICB/pdf/b07-08.pdf

What do you think?

You can easily and cheaply rent a 406MHz ELT from people such as SEMS (South East Marine Services).

Sadly the same is not true for a Mode S transponder which you also must have but is apparently currently NOTAM'd to be switched off in the Schiphol area...!

Aussie Andy,

The requirement is for it to be fitted to the aircraft - hand held ones are not acceptable (apparently) - although clarification of this is required. Can you fit the marine ones to the aircraft, and, more importantly - are they impact activated?

You know it.

Horst

[Horst Schwul quote] <<The requirement is for it to be fitted to the aircraft . . . >>

But have a look at AIC-B 07/08 page 2 of 6

Survival ELT (ELT-S):
An ELT which is removable from an aircraft, stowed so as to facilitate its ready use in an emergency, and manually activated by survivors.

Unfortunately, a PLB is not an ELT-S.

The definition of and specifications for a Survival ELT (ELT-S) are set out in RTCA Document DO-204 and EUROCAE Document ED-62. These standards spell out various ELT-S requirements that are not met by PLBs, including crash survivability and operating ability in environmental extremes, 121.5MHz homer output power and transmission of the aircraft's ICAO 24-bit address.

Products that are approved as ELT-S beacons in compliance with those specifications include the Kannad 406AS, the Artex SLB-406 and the ELTA ADT406S. None of those examples are GPS-enabled; ergo, it will take some 30 to 60 minutes before the LEOSAR element of the COSPAS-SARSAT system could accurately determine your position using doppler shift.

On the other hand, whilst the GPS-enabled PLBs most of us are already using or considering purchasing are NOT approved ELT-S beacons in compliance with those specifications, they will transmit an extremely accurate position very soon after activation.

An ICAO/IMO Working Group in June 2006 concluded "there was a strong case for the allowance of PLBs as a means of compliance with requirements for non-automatic ELT carriage by GA aircraft." Regrettably, to date their findings have not been adopted by ICAO, and the Dutch and the British (unlike the French) have adopted the ICAO stance verbatim. Fortunately, at the very least until 1 May 2009, the UK CAA have granted a non-public transport exemption from the ANO requirement to carry ELTs.

Islander2, thanks for that.
How depressing. None of the three ELT-S mentioned seems to have a UK distributor.

Then, if a PLB works on 406 then what's the difference?

:confused:

So would my "F" registered Robin, which is based in Lelystad, be eligible to fly int he Amsterdam FIR with a PLB or handheld ELT because the French allow me to do so since the aicraft is French registered, or because I want to fly in teh Amsterdam FIR, the Dutch will insist on me having a proper ELT installed?

I ask because the original ELT's batteries need replacing, but since it's an old 121.50 ELT I'm debating to swap it for a cheaper handheld device, or not, as the case may be.

Can anyone clear up the legal position?

One do not need an ELT to fly in the EHAA fir, only if you want to cross its boundries you need one.

Yes sorry for the confusion - its PLBs that you can rent from SEMS, not impact activated ELTs...

I guess we can no longer visit Holland then if this is the interpretation of the rules...

Andy :(

Not sure how many of us are flying aircraft that has a FIRST CofA issued after 1st July last year?

That would make for a very new shiny aircraft and as such should have had the ELT factory built.

Bose-x, it makes no practical difference.

If first CofA was issued after 1st July 2008, the aircraft must have an ELT-AF, ELT-AP or ELT-AD.

If first CofA was issued before 1st July 2008, the aircraft must have any of the above or a manually-activated ELT-S.

But, as I've noted before, ELT-S is an ICAO and EASA defined term which expressly doesn't embrace the PLBs that most of us use. The latter don't meet the ELT-S requirements for crash-worthiness, 121.5MHz homer power output or transmission of the aircraft's ICAO 24-bit address.

I've listed examples of approved ELT-S beacons in post #8 above. I believe all of them retail for more than £2,000, whereas the entirely adequate GPS-enabled PLBs we use are available typically for £300-£500.

Having splashed out on a PLB and Mode S (as well as FM Immunity) for a trip across The Netherlands into northern Germany last autumn - that now appears to have been a one-off trip. Don’t really feel like spending more on ELT stuff only to be told shortly afterwards that it’s no longer adequate/needed/wrong/etc. Off to Switzerland next month instead.

Interesting one. How does the Dutch requirement stack up against the UK exemption for G-reg?

The Civil Aviation Authority, in exercise of its powers under Article 153 of the Air
Navigation Order 2005, hereby exempts any aircraft flying for purposes other than public
transport, registered in the United Kingdom, from the requirement to carry emergency
locator transmitters, referred to in Scale KK.

Since this is a Schedule 4 (equipment, Annex 6 3.6) requirement, rather than a Schedule 5 (radio equipment, Annex 6 3.7), is there a basis for the NL authorities to overrule an exemption from the state of registry? There's nothing in the NL AIP and the AIC cited is a series B (domestic).

As with the Mode S around Schiphol fiasco, the Dutch authorities at least seem to be giving comfort that there is an organisation with even less logic/common sense than the CAA.

Going missing for long in the Dutch Alps seems pretty unlikely while having your ELT bolted to the airframe is chocolate teapot land when there's all that water to ditch in.

A thought. Don't we all ultimately vote for, and pay for all these rule makers? :mad::mad:

According to the polls, 1/6th of the voting population of the Netherlands would vote for a party which basically has one agenda point - deport all muslims - if we had elections today.

And this party is so politically grown up that they will publicly run away from a debate to make a point, never mind that straight after that debate they were to be voting on a couple of motions that they themselves submitted. And which got nil votes because of that.

So the general public making an informed choice about which party is best able to run our national CAA...? Don't make me laugh.:{

Passing lightly over the rivetting world of Dutch politics & returning to the more prosaic but equally exciting world of ELTS etc....

From the AIC-B 07/08, page 3:-

So para 1 says that ALL GA aircraft MUST have an ELT.

Para. 2 says that GA aircraft registered after 1/7/08 must have an ELT.

What purpose does para 2 serve unless there is a mistrake in the translation?

Would any of our Dutch colleagues care to translate this for us please?