FAA licence "rendered valid".....
 

Question for the owners/operators who actually rent out the aircraft - rather than the pilots who hire them....but..

Under the ICAO agreement, all member states must accept PPL privileges from 'foreign' licences. The FAA wish you to actually HOLD an FAA licence - so they just give you one, under FAR 61.75.....but, you can only have one of those "licence issued on the bais of..." if you do not already hold a full FAA licence in some other form.

The UK authorities (spit) automatically "Render valid" a foreign licence under Article 28 of the Air Navigation Order - but say someone has a full UK JAA CPL valid on MEP aircraft only - can they use the ICAO privileges of their foreign licence to rent an SEP (or vice-versa)?

I *have* seen the FAA rule in print - never seen the JAA question, so I doubt there is a legal precedence.

That's why I think the question is for owners/operators - would you rent your SEP to a JAA CPL/ME and allow them to use ICAO privileges to fly it?

which has been ignored by every country I know of except the UK :) The best you get is the U.S. piggyback license regime where you turn up in person somewhere and they give you one. Around Europe, validation is available but the conditions vary; one seemingly popular version is that it is vailable only to non EU residents (France AIUI).

I used to rent out my TB20 so let me answer on that basis...

YES. UK ANO Article 26 automatically validates ICAO licenses for a G-reg plane, for VFR flight worldwide.

For me, a far bigger factor was whether the renter was qualified on type and/or had the right attitude to learn the procedures. But that is another story.

Actually, no. There's a recommendation that any ICAO licence is accepted for private flights. But there's no obligation to permit foreign licence holders to fly aircraft of the home nationality in home airspace.

NO, they can only exercise a privilege that they currently hold. In the UK Article 26 renders valid a foreign ICAO licence, but only to do what that licence entitles the holder to do in their own State.

So if you have both MEP and SEP on FAA licence - but only MEP on JAA, you cannot use the FAA "rendered valid" to fly the FAA SEP privileg?

But if you do not have a JAA licence - you can fly both on the FAA?

Duh!

I'll believe *your* answer.

What is the deal with the ICAO? "Must" or "recommended"?

ICAO
 

There is no such thing as an ICAO "Rule"...
The "Annexes " of ICAO are agreements or recommendations.
xxx
No "if"... no "but"... that is all there is to it.
:ok:
Happy contrails

Then the FAA licence is not "Restricted" and you can do what ever the FAA one permits, the JAA one is irrelevant.
If the FAA Certificate is "Restricted" it is only as good as the privileges on the one it refers to, so if that is not valid then neither are valid.

You can only render valid in one State what is valid in another!

You've lost me again. Where did the comment "restricted" come from?

It's a fairly simple question, I think, that is causing some very confusing answers;

Pilot holds a full, unrestricted (?), FAA on both SEP and MEP. Tests passed.

Holds a JAA MEP only - and lives in JAA land.

Can pilot use the ICAO "recommendation" to fly SEP using the FAA licence in UK whilst being the holder of a JAA licence.

Going the other way, the answer is "No" - as the FAA will not "render valid" nor issue a 61.75 licence to anyone who already holds a full FAA licence of any kind.

Is the same deal applied when coming into JAA land?

If the pilot holds a full FAA certificate which has SEP on it and it is current then he can fly a G reg. The JAA licence is of no relevance at all.

I think the reason for that is because of the way you asked the question.

You didn't state the pilot in question had an FAA certificate, nor what privlidges were on the certificate. It read like you were considering the JAA MEP licence as the "foreign licence" under ICAO, and trying to get some sort of implied privlidges.

Given that you've now clarified that, you should get pretty consistant answers, inline with what Bose just said. But be aware that that is correct for the UK, but not necessarily correct for other JAR countries. It's a UK rules, rather than a JAR one.

dp

Familiar with Art 26, thanks, bookworm (despite my typo in the original).

So we seem to be se settling on the interpretation that you CAN use the foreign licence for ICAO privileges for a rating you do not hold on your own JAA licence.

I know the FAA specifically prohibit this with their version of the "rendered valid".....if you have (say) a PPL SEP FAA full licence and a JAA with SEP and MEP, you cannot get a 61.75 "rendered valid" approval to fly MEP - though you CAN have the instrument rating privileges extended to a US licence.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were just one rule making body....call it something like International Civil Aviation Organisation.

Thanks for the replies.

It was the limitation (private flight only, no IFR in controlled airspace) that I thought was worth quoting in full .

:ok:Okies, thanks.

Well actually you can. Say you hold an FAA CPL ME (standalone) and you have a JAA PPL with SE. Although you cannot hold two FAA certificates, you can actually have have the SE added as an endorsement on the FAA certificate as per FAR 61.75 process or whatevertheheck it is:

Commercial Pilot Multi Engine Land
Single Engine Private Privileges based on and only when acompanied by foreign licence number 1234567
yada yada yada.

My situation is reversed, I hold CPL ME SE IR in FAALand, yet in JAALand I am a PPL SEP. Still I can fly ME aircraft in JARLand because the CAA render it valid without formality. I believe I could also fly SET/ MET in JARLand should I wish to....

No you can't.

Why not? It's exactly the same question that I originally asked - but different classes.

What's the difference?

To exercise any privilege under the ICAO recommendation, somewhere, you must have a valid ICAO licence containing that privilege. The recommendation only allows one State to recognise a privilege granted by another. That licence must also be acceptable to the State in which you wish to use it.

You did not make it clear if you were talking about a FAA Cetificate rendered valid by virtue of Art 26 or a FAA "Restricted" Certificate rendered valid on the basis of a foreign (JAA) licence!

I would love to be proved wrong for a number of reasons, in Europe Turbine aircraft require a type rating regardless of weight and this does not carry over under automatic privileges as I understand it.

I have a number of type ratings on my JAA licence that would not require type ratings on my FAA licence as they are under 12,500lbs.

It is possible to get approval from certain states providing satisfactory training can be proven. But it is a state by state basis and on named types, not a blanket covering.

Why not? Article 26 has no limitation on aircraft class or type. If your FAA licence meets ICAO standards to permit flight in an SET or MET, Art 26 renders that licence valid for private flights. Of course, without IFR in controlled airspace it's as much practical use as a chocolate teapot...