I always used to tell students that their engine was going to fail on THIS departure. I used to get a plan of action from them with various step heights/gates e.g. "If I am sufficiently low and their is sufficient runway ahead then I will land ahead, if I am too high to land back onto this runway then I will take the grass to the right, above that I will take the large field to the north of the field and land downwind (there were not many good land ahead options) etc"

I had my first power loss at about 200' on climbout on an early solo flight as a student (at the time I thought it was a total power loss). It is amazing how quickly you can think in circumstances like this. After nailing the speed I elected to try to turn through 270 degrees and land on a disused runway (triangular runway layout). I knew I would have insufficient height to do more than 180 degrees of the turn, but hoped I would have rudder authority to kick enough of the rest off in the flare, to touch down closely enough aligned to keep the thing on the hard stuff. My only options ahead were green, made of wood and rose to 30' or so. During the turn I had carb heat on, mags checked, prayers said. Engine recovered (I now suspect it was carb ice). Went on to fly a normal cct keeping VERY close to the runway. Taxied back and the instructor declined my invitation to retire to the bar, insted sending me straight back out for more ccts. Best thing he could have done. :D

Now when I fly GA, it is mostly a 182 from an airfield with a single 1600m runway and huge 1600m triangular field next to it, as well as a taxiway with two 800m straight segments. EFAT from here and I will certainly turn. Land ahead involves some cranes from RW 14 and some industrial units from RW32. Before each flight I brief myself to land back on if able, turn through 90 degrees, 180 or to fly a full abridged cct with a mid runway touchdown as necessary.

RIX

P.s. out of interest, how many of you are truly comfortable with slipping, should the best option be too close with too much height in hand? I practice slipping to touchdown even in the 182.

Not in the same a/c I trust!? If I had a student come back & report an engine failure, partial or otherwise, I'm damned sure I wouldn't be sending them straight back without thoroughly investigating the problem :=

P.

I am going to ask for some practice slipping in thre PA28 i am learning in on my next lesson. I have had two instructors do it while I am watching but think it is a very useful and I want to be good at it!

Perhaps I should have elablorated... I used the whole 6000 feet for takeoff, because it is wise, particularly on a maintenance test flight. with about 5000 feet used up behind me, at 200' gently climbing, came the first signs of trouble. As the speed increased, the thumping continued, so I used up a few hundred feet of distance diagnosing (as best I could). I knew that if I were forced to land ahead, it would be in the trees - and the engine was still running, so no call for such a drastic decision yet. It was time to turn back. Then the thumping got much worse (cowl opened all the way, but I did not know that yet). The flopping cowl acted like a huge trim tab for the engine pylon, so it was twisting rythmically, and I could really feel it. I know the engine is held on well, but I still don't like the feeling of them wiggling back and forth!

Maybe I'd broken a pylon brace? I did not know. Time to pull the power off, and get on the ground quickly. By now, I was halfway 'round the turn back, having told the controller, and not forgetting to lower the gear. Once most of the way back to a downwind final, with most of the 6000 still available in front of me, and the power at idle, flaps down, slow down, and the thumping diminsihed. then I relaxed a little, and did a landing of which I could be quite proud!

Slipping is well worth the practice. I could have had to slip, and would have (Lake Amphibs slip amazingly well) but it worked out just fine without. I good slip can really help save your engine from shock cooling when flying in cold weather, by allowing you to carry power down the descent, thus reducing the chances of cracking cylinders, or creating the conditions when the engine will not come back to life at the bottom.

I was test flying a Citabria on wheel skis yesterday. It was -17C, and I had to go up high to do stalls in it. I slipped it all the way back down with power, full flaps, and a low airspeed, and the CHT only dropped a little through the descent.

Always learning and practising!

Pilot DAR

No, different AC. There were techies on site who checked it over and it was back in service within the hour (I trained for my PPL in one of those American factories). Looking back I suspect it was carb ice, but anyway thats all in the past and I learnt a bit about EFATO and turning back from it. :)


liam548

Good to hear! It is something of an art, slipping to a touchdown, so I would not recommend this in your early days (except for as a crosswind technique if it is this technique you have been taught instead of crabbing, or with the instructor there). Get as much practice at altitude, and then you will find that you can use slipping as a tool on final. Being infinately variable it allows you to have much more precise control over your descent rate (which you can build to very high), and I find it much more rewarding.

Be warned though that a lot of AC (not sure about the PA28 but I know in the 172P for sure), slipping with PAX in the back is prohibeted. Check your POH. Also be sure to ask your instructor what magin you should use for airspeed. Most ASIs will not read correctly in a slip.

RIX

I'm not sure about the 172P, but I know that most 172's, and some other Cessnas are placarded "avoid slips with flaps extended". I doubt that the occupancy of the back seat is a factor in slip handling. The reason for the caution (not prohibition) of slips is that the pitch control can get a little less authoritative than normal, due to the wake off a flap crossing the tail, and blanketing it to some degree. The aircraft is still fine to fly, just not quite the same. As long as you are ready for it, there's no problem.

The unfortunate element of placards is that the are required to use few words (space limitations). So the detail of what is intended is often not included, just the bare bones instruction. The flight manual, on the other hand, can go into great detail, but is much less frequnetly read than placards.

Like many things in flying, slips can certainly be conducted in degrees of intensity. So with just you and the instructor, and a briefing, try just a little bit of a slip, and see how it feels. Slips in GA aircraft can be a very useful way to precisely control a descent, and reduce damaging effects on the engine. If you are able to land on an icy surface, with great care, you can slip one wheel right onto the surface in some aircraft. It's a satisfying feeling of control.

Pilot DAR

Pilot DAR
 

You may well be right. The last time I flew a 172 for which I had access to the POH was in about 2002/3 ("P" varient). I was checking out on it and intended to take a backseat passenger on the checkflight, so I read up and seem to remember something about slipping with rear seat passengers being prohibeted.

With regard to the slipping with flap you are quite right. I had been at a little too much of the red yesterday when I wrote that. I was thinking in the context of making a forced landing and having the flaps extended with PAX in the back.


liam548

My advice to you under any circumstances is to get hold of a copy of the POH and read it. Don't just read it though, become comfortable with it. It will impress your instructor if you are ahead of the game because you know the limitations from the POH. More importantly, if you are comfortable with the POH then you will not be afraid to do the mass and balance calculations that so many PA28 drivers seem to ignore (just read the accident reports), you will know the V speeds for every circumstance and you will have a much better understanding of your aircraft. I would also recommed asking an engineer if you can shadow him/her for a day while working on your type of aircraft. I learnt more about what an aircraft really is from working a day or two a week in an engineering base.

RIX