Why IFR/VFR? Why TCAS? There are plenty of places that manage the mix at much higher levels of traffic density. In this case it doesn't even appear anyone was IFR - it is a problem that could happen anywhere - other than an airport that allows only radar vectored ILSs.

Something clearly has gone badly wrong and as an industry we need to understand and respond. But even with TCAS and Mode S and IFR only operations and two person crews and positive radar control we have unfortunately demonstrated twice in recent years you can still crash aircraft into each other. Once the facts are available, then solutions can be proposed.

Does Coventry Tower have an ATM?

Just to confirm that the 'other' female onboard was indeed an instructor with the company, but that it WAS NOT Capt Burnham, well known in flight training circles and for flying the DC3. She will no doubt be acting as a strong pillar within the company right now, as she did with us at Highland when we lost our colleague several years ago. The lady deserves wider recognition (though she would never want it!) for her steadfastness and professionalism in every aspect of her work, I for one have been grateful for her wise words many many times.
Thinking of those at CVT in the long days ahead.

Paul.

mmflynn: there is absolutely no way at this time that I will have adversarial dialogue with you over this terrible accident.The airspace issues @CVT/DSA are well documented within my company(note,not other airfields)and despite everybody's best efforts the worst case scenario has happened.It could only be worse in terms of scale if a commercial airliner was involved.I do not know why 'sad for all involved' needs to be quoted but it manifestly is.Out.

Sad Loss

RIP to all

RIP all those tragically involved. From a personal perspective, WW will never seem quite the same again.

Those of us left - please lookout/listen out as much as is humanly possible. All of our lives depend on it.

Heartfelt condolences to the families of everyone involved.

Al

Firstly, this is a tragic accident and my thoughts are with family and friends who have suffered a loss.

In reading through this thread, whilst it is always helpful to see healthy discussion over the likley cause of any accident - and in so doing hopefully avoid a repetition - I am concerned over any speculation as to WHO might be to blame.

Clearly, something went seriuosly wrong here and questions need answers. Firstly, what happened? How did this happen? How can we avoid this happening again?

Until these questions are answered we will be no wiser. I am not familiar with CVT but , at 3 miles out the KR3 might reasonably have been turning finals and being in a banked left turnn would have had the approaching Cessna under his Straboard wing. Equally, the Cessna being established on the approach ( landing gear down), would have the KR2 obscured under the port wing.

Eyewitness reports the KR2 flying into the Cessna but it just as plausible that the Cessna descended into the KR2. Whatever the circumstances there was a fatal collision and neither aircraft saw the other until too late. There will be a reason their aircraft found themselves occupying same airspace - both perhaps in the belief that the other was elsewhere.

If the KR2 vanished under the port wing/engine of the cessna and the Cessna was blanked by the KR2 starboard wing in a left turn an accident of timing ( I guess 70Kts Vs 120Kts) might have easily resulted in the relative juxtapositions at 3 miles out.

At least we know that the Air Accident Investigation Branch have the resources to conduct a full and unmitigated investigation, and that a soon as they can release any substantial facts (prior to the publication of the full report) which may help such an awful accident happening again, they will do so.

Until then, professional discussion or genuine questions are perfectly acceptable, finger pointing or specualtion helps no one, especially the families etc of those involved.

Bose-X - One of the females on board flew for AACF but not on the Dak. More often seen helming the Prentice or Dragon Rapide. A tragic accident. My condolences to all involved - everyone knows everyone in that particular corner of Coventry West, my thoughts are with you at this time.

Paul I can Confirm that Kath is alive and well in Nova Scotia. I just wish I could say the same about Sybilla, Harvey, Sofie and Jim.

The BBC is now showing the names of all five who died.

Singleacting- Thanks for the post, however I think you misunderstood mine, I was confirming to BOSE X that she wasnt on board as a result of his post.
Confused? Me too.
Anyhow I have had comms from Kath since Sunday, thanks mate.
And I share your feeling about the others only too well.
Stay strong.

Paul.

Sorry Paul

Give me a call sometime I think you know who I am.

I too have been in touch with Kath when I can get hold of her , my place in NS where she is staying has no phone line!

mm flynn: Exactly. The "separations" between IFR and VFR - or VFR and VFR - on final approach in Class D are in effect the same as in Class G. They rely on what IO540 has dubbed "grey areas". There is one other thing though. Aircraft in contact with Tower and operating in the vicinity of an ATZ are receiving an ATC service and are expected to comply with ATC instructions - even if they're in Class G.

Not in this case. Coventry can't provide a RAS below 1700 feet in this area and in any case if he's been transferred to Tower he's effectively (another grey area...) no longer in receipt of a radar service.
NS

As the AAIB press release states BOTH a/c were inbound to Coventry this is more of an issue about how airports such as CVT operate than a Class G unprotected approach issue IMHO.

Apology
 

Please accept my apology of incorrect phrasing ref controllers around the Birmingham and Eastmids area.(I have amended the para) This was not aimed at anybody and my comment did not mean to highlight this area only there are many hotspots with high risk of a collision between luton and stansted is a classic and most of the london area. this was intended to be helpful and create awareness of high risk areas.
This accident could have happened to anybody pretty much at any time and I believe all of the crews to be of a very high standard. ATC in the uk provide an excellent service.

I offer my thoughts to all affected crews, families and ATC involved. this was a tragedy and a big loss to aviation.

I'm absolutely gutted for all those involved.
Sybille will leave a huge gap in the company - I did my initial IR with her and worked under her for a year prior to flying full time - she took no sh!t off anyone and knew her stuff inside out . . . hugely respected, , ,

I flew with Harvey too - a true gent . . . .

Rest in Peace you guys
CB

A thought for the controller(s)?
 

Not wishing to drift the thread here (I am as saddened as any.)

However, out there right now there is/are one or two CVT controllers who were, most likely, doing their professional best last Saturday morning - and all within the constraints of the CVT ATC/ANO infrastructure many of us have known for years.

My own experience flying from CVT (starting 1968) was always that CVT controllers have been 100% helpful, co-operative and endlessly patient. You'd need a heart of stone not to feel for whoever was i/c on 119.25 on Saturday. Bless you and sleep well, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Memories of many happy days restored by this tragic event.

Cheers bm

Many people would disagree with the above (Class G is Class G regardless of who you are talking to) even if it seems perfectly reasonable to me that one should follow ATC instructions since they are usually given for a good reason.

Much earlier on in this thread, someone mentioned that TCAS can have problems at low level and/or can give spurious readings from a/c on the ground if they have transponders switched on.

Can anyone provide informed comment?