Help with Camera Choice
 

Hi Guys,

Looking to step up into the world of the DSLR. Ive seen two cameras that take my fancy so far:

Nikon D40 - 18-55mm Lens
Pentax K100D Super - 18-50mm & 55-200mm Sigma Lenses

Obviously at the entry level as far as price and features go. I take a lot of in-cockpit landscape shots, and would like to branch out to landscapes, airshows etc.

Any advice, admittedly don't know a lot about cameras.

Ozzi

Have you looked at the Canon EOS 400D, it's very good entry level DSLR. The other two you list are considered very good as well, for airshows you really need a good focal length- 200mm is reasonable but the 55mm that comes with most cameras is simply not long enough. I used to use a Canon 300D (now a 5D) through the window of a Super Cub which produced good pictures.

I use a Nikon D100 with a variety of lenses going up to 500m.

Some nice choices there. I've heard the Canon EOS 400D is a great camera, just out of my price range at the moment. The Nikon and Pentax I mentioned are available at the moment for a great price.

Less money for camera = more time for flying :)

Would an 18-50 and 55-200 cover most uses? I quite like using a wide angle in the cockpit as i feel it gives a better result. How would these fare? Is 200mm enough?

I find I use 18mm-c24mm when taking pictures from the cockpit, I don't think I'd need much wider (10mm is about the shortest focal length you can get) and that usually gets a good landscape shot. The same applies for landscapes from the ground. 200mm would be OK for airshows, perhaps you might want more. I would go for the D40, Nikon make very good cameras and it might just have the edge over the Pentax on picture quality.

OK - Pentax K100D uses AA batteries, so you would need to invest in a charger and a good set of Ni-Mh batteries, otherwise things could start to get expensive! Does, however, have the advantage that with the built-in shake reduction, any lens you put on it automatically becomes an image-stabilised lens.

D40 and D40X, on the other hand, do come with a rechargeable li-ion battery and charger. The downside, is that it will only autofocus with AF-S lenses, or Sigma HSM lenses, as it does not have a built-in focussing motor, unlike the D80/100/200 etc., so does limit the choice of lenses, although Nikon have introduced a few reasonably priced AF-S lenses, such as the 55-200VR, which isn't a bad little lens.

As has already been mentioned, the Canon EOS400D is quite a good camera, with a huge range of lenses available for it, both new and second-hand!

Hope this helps.....

I've been using the Nikon D50 for just over a year, both in and out of the cockpit, and am pretty satisfied.
The Canon offerings are similar in price and quality, and are certainly worth considering.
I use the standard 18-55 lens mostly and have the new 70-300 VR lens which I rate very highly (hand held at 300mm and 1/20th usually works fine) although it's a bit too big for my cockpit.
The 18-200 VR lens is popular (if you can find one), and almost covers every possibility.
Below are samples from both lenses (not full res)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...C_00160001.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/DSC_0084.jpg

I use a Canon EAS 20d with a variety of lenses.

i find the best lenses for aerial shots are either a 24mm or 50 mm fixed focal lenght wide angle lense. Reason being wide angle lenses are better for landscape shots.

A few thing to remember when taking aerial shots:

1) The greater the F stop (apeture setting) the wider the focal spread
2) The faster the ISO speed the less bluring of the image (but it may be more grainy)
3) The faster the shutter speed the sharper the image.

Thanks for the tips. Im gonna head out to the shops tomorrow and have a good look. Leaning towards the Nikon at the moment. Doesnt come with the extra lens but the interface looks pretty good and from what ive read, good camera all round.

Ozzi

There are loads of choices and most will do the job.

Obviously a high speed (which means a big aperture lens) is essential, due to unavoidable camera movement / vibration etc. Again, any DSLR will deliver 1/3000 in any normal daylight/sunlight situation and this is enough to counter even a high level of camera movement - this pin sharp shot was taken handheld at about 1/3000 I think.

I use a Pentax *DL which at the time (2005) was one of the few reasonably compact DSLRs, most of them are for some bizzare reason huge. Nikons are good of course but their customer service has gone well and truly down the pan in the last few years.

However, really good shots are hard to do, due to window reflections, distortions, and dirt. Simple tricks involve placing a dark rag on your lap so as to kill window reflections, perhaps holding the rag near the camera. The camera needs to be v. close to the window but not actually touch it otherwise high frequency vibration gets conducted to it.

To do this properly you need a specially converted aircraft and a gyro stabilised camera mount.

Nikkon lenses are more expensive than Canon, the same as 3rd party Nikkon fit lenses are more expensive than Canon 3rd party fit lenses.

Not technically a DSLR, but I'm currently using a Kodak Z650 which is 6Mpix, has a phenomenal optical zoom, adequate viewfinder, a good selection of modes, and so far a very very good capability for ground to air and from the air photography.

If you are looking at entry level in any case, I'd at least give it a good look - my Canon EOS hasn't been out of it's cupboard since I bought this. (Incidentally, it's one of a family, there are higher res and higher optical zoom capability relatives for a bit more than the £140 or so that's the going rate for the Z650).

G

Hi Ozzie. The Nikon D80 is great, if not get the D40X. Dont get the D40, get the X version.

I use a Canon 400D. Took it to an airshow recently with a 75-300 Canon lens and got some ace pictures, I can definately recommend that.

Don't forget to shoot with a low ISO speed to try and stop the props from freezing. Many of mine at the weekend were taken with an ISO of 1/1600!!! All the props were just straight, looked terrible to be honest.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/paul.e...72576165222594

I'd recommend that you read this:

http://photo.net/equipment/building-...al-slr-system/

which just so happens to have been written by a pilot. It's Ameri-centric but all the same models are available here, though the Canons have different numbers.

Have just set up a Flickr Group for us if you want to post a few pics for us to see and comment on etc... Have a look here and join in.......

http://www.flickr.com/groups/518241@N21/

:ok:

Yes, the problem with a fast shutter is that it stops the prop.

The trick with taking pics of other planes is to use a slower shutter but not get too much shake - difficult!

I've got a Canon EOS400D which is pretty good but in the low end DSLR market they're all really much of a muchness. Once you've got a few extra lenses it's worth staying with a brand, but if you're buying from scratch then there's really not much to choose, except what you can afford and what features you want to have.
A quick google should throw up loads of reviews of any camera in your price range!

A few things. Unless you're shooting in the dark, don't use high ISO ratings as that just makes the picture 'noisy' - think of it as interference, because that's pretty much what it is, at high sensitivity settings the signals from the sensor sites can interfere with each other. Your photo is going to look a lot better without coloured speckles all over it!

If you get a camera without anti-shake technology built in, it might be worth considering getting a lens with that feature. Optically stabilised lenses are getting cheaper, and for telephotos will let you use that slower shutter speed to show off moving props without having shake in the picture. I'm considering buying the Sigma 18-200mm zoom with optical stabilisation as an all purpose zoom for that very reason, although there are a few other lenses on the way later I want to look at first.

Third party lenses like Sigma or Tamron can be half the price of the camera company's own lenses, and produce equally good results.

Get a polarising filter. They screw on the front of the lens, and turn around. They can darken the sky and remove glare. Think of it as sunglasses for your camera.

Caveat: I'm not a professional photographer, and there are people here who are a load better at this lark than I am, but I'm just passing on some ideas. Hope they help!

BRL: I've joined the photo group (as Antony J. Shepherd), I'll add some of my pictures.

That is great, thanks, could do with some more pics and discussion. I have a lot to learn about airshow photography by the looks of things!!!!

Very helpful thread so far!

Just posted a few pics on the flickr group. All in flight pics taken with a standard digital cam. Hoping an SLR will let me be a bit more creative and branch out a bit.

Keep the tips coming.....

Ozzi

for many years I earned a living as a photographer, although not all avaition.
I would avoid the over complex cameras, with dials for everything, which 95% of people never use, I have a Nikon D70, old technology now, however search around and if you find one in a camera shop, I imagine, it would go for a pitance, still does everything you'd ever require, and more.
Len's the VR type that Nikon sell are very good, giving you stablised images even at lower shutter speeds,
If your just wishing to take photo's from the cockpit to ground ? I wouldn't bother with zooms etc, just buy a standard 50mm or 35mm lens, and make sure you get the rubber lens hood, readily available in most stores, that way, you can touch the rubber hood to the window, cutting out all the extranous glare, and cos its rubber, no vibration to the camera,

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ght=jumpseater

A very good thread, without the 'brand bitch fest' that can break out when peeps start talking cameras!
rgds
js

I have a Nikon D80 with the VR 18-200 lenses. I find it takes excellent photos in full auto mode and am still getting used to the other functions. It works well for airborne shots thanks to the VR (anti vibration) capability, yet the lens is long enough to get reasonable ground-air shots, especially if you keep a low Iso setting and just enlarge the photos on the computer.

For the Nikon, this lens equates to a 28-300 in 35mm equivalent terms - a 1.5 equivalence ratio. Other brands have different ratios - eg, Olympus have a 2x factor, due to the smaller sensor; Canon are (I think) 1.6x.

The only thing I find is that the Nikon is bulkier than I'd like - there's little point in taking it along just in case you want to use it. The Olympus E-410 is much smaller and lighter and worth considering, but feels less solidly built and I don't think offers the VR capability. And it doesn't seem to be available in Oz yet.

Proud new owner of a Pentax K100D with 18-50mm & 55-200mm lenses :)
Only being playing with it for a few hours but am already impressed with the quality and ease. RAW's are just plain awesome!

Not just have to learn how to take good photos :rolleyes:

Enjoy yourself with it and just get used to the camera by taking as many pics as you want - that's the great thing about digital - once you've got the gear is doesn't cost anything to take the pics!

As for technicalities, as has been mentioned on here, a shutter speed of 1/500sec will be OK, in most cases, to stop movement, but still allow a small amount of prop blur:

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p41941033.html

(tech specs: ISO200, 1/640 @ f/11, lens at 110mm)

If taking pictures of aircraft, get used to 'panning', following the moving aircraft as it passes and gently press the shutter relaease when you are happy with positioning in the viewfinder - and don't forget to 'follow through' - keep the panning movement going after you have pressed the button:

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p42015204.html

(again, ISO200, 1/500 @ f8, using a 70-210 lens)

I do have a number of photos taken from aircraft cockpits, but not on my website - main points, look out for internal reflections from the canopy (don't forget the position of these will change in relation to the direction of the sun!), avoid banging the lens against the canopy and, above all, if you are flying the plane as well, that takes precedence over the photography!!!

As for the 'brand bitch' comments made (not at me, I realise), I work in the photographic trade, have changed from Nikon to Canon (helped in no small amount by the aftermath of a divorce!) and have been quite impressed with the Pentax digitals.

Like I said, get out there, enjoy yourself and, looking at my watch, it's nearly time for bed, so don't stay up all night playing with your camera and reading the manual ('tho Pentax manuals are probably the best in the business!)

I have a Nikon D70s DSLR and a Nikon F90x 35mm from years ago. The great thing is that my lenses are interchangeable and I've picked up a couple of bargain lenses designed for the film range to use on my DSLR. Why Nikon? I bought the F90x secondhand for good price, no other reason! I've used Canon as well and to be honest I think they are both excellent ranges of SLRs. The other thing to consider is do any of your friends have DSLRs? If so, get the same brand as them, then you can steal lenses off each other!!!

And for the man whom I think is the web's authority on all things Nikon:
http://www.kenrockwell.com
And a users guide for D40
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40...uide/index.htm

I've nothing bad to say about any brand, but I am completly happy with my Canon digital EOS. 28-135, and 100-400 image stabilized lenses, both excellent. I've done lots of air to air, with very pleasing results.

Pilot DAR

I have a Nikon D80; it's a fantastic camera.

The Canon EOS 400D is significantly cheaper and comes very very close to the D80 in performance according to reviews. I only went with the D80 because I already had Nikon accessories and by the time I'd sold them on eBay (at a loss) and bought the Canon equivalents I'd have spent as much money.

You mentioned in an earlier post "Canon EOS 400D is a great camera, just out of my price range at the moment". I bought a lesser camera on that basis a couple of years ago and regretted it - eventually I sold it (at a loss) and bought the D80 that I always really wanted.

My advice for what it's worth - cancel a couple of flights, bank the money and go for the EOS 400D or D80.

RC

I could have sworn that Jessops are doing a 400D for £399. Sure I read it today whilst glancing through a paper.......

Managed to get out and do some flying this morning with the new camera......

All good, except I left the ISO set at 3200 by accident :rolleyes: so everything came out really grainy. Oh well, wont make that mistake again.

It was a bit hazy, would a lens filter of some sort help?

Ozzi

Ozzi said:

You could use a UV filter, sometimes called a Haze filter - this can help reduce haze, but also acts as a protective cover for the front lens element - fingerprints left on here can be cleaned off a lot easier than if they were on the lens itself.

Yoy may also want to consider a polarising filter, which will help give more contrast between clouds and sky (works best at 90 degrees to the direction of the sun) and can also be used as a Neutral Density filter if you want to cut down on the amount of light reaching the sensor. Make sure you get a Circular Polariser, not Linear, or you'll find that the autofocus won't work!

My standard camera setting for aerial shots (Pentax DL DSLR) is AV mode (constant aperture, variable shutter speed) and F4 (the smallest F number with the particular lens). This usually results in 1/3000 or so.

The annoyance is that if shooting over the cowling, 9 times out of 10 there is a very prominent prop blade frozen in the picture.

I used to use a polarized filter years ago; it darkens the sky and generally increases the contrast, but I am not sure of the benefit in the most typical scenario: haze. It produces dramatic - almost unreal - results with a clear blue sky and a sunlit landscape.

If you do have to use a high ISO, e.g. 1600 or 3200, then you'll get noisy pictures. The Canon SLRs have a (very well deserved) reputation for producing clean images even at high ISOs, however at 3200, this noise is definitely an issue with any camera.

Fortunately, there is a wonderful piece of software called "Noise Ninja" which does a fantastic job of reducing this noise..... just google for it.

Mik, aka PPD

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...r/IMGP3483.jpg

Pentax K10D 16-45mm

Great camera with anti shake and dust removal, the latter essential IMHO...

Dust removal is certainly desirable; but the Nikon D80 doesn't have it. I rationalised the purchase despite that omission on the basis that by using a single lens which would cover 99.5% of my needs - the 18-200 - I would rarely if ever need to have the lens of the camera and hence would have little or no risk of dust in the body.
Still wish the Nikon were a little lighter to lug around, though, especially with the 18-200 zoom attached...

Hi All,

I recently bought a Canon EOS 400D DSLR with an 18-55mm f4 zoom lens and as part of the deal had a Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6. This combination has been an absolutly brilliant buy for my needs. I have shot aircraft, flying and on the ground, model aircraft, ditto, cricket, candids, wildlife and ordinary holiday snaps. I have used it in very low light hand held at 1/5th sec and thanks to the image stabalisation system a useable picture.

how do you post pics here. I've got some quite good ones.

Chris

I've got a Nikon D200, which is a pretty good camera. But the replacement -- the D300 coming in November -- looks like it will have far, far superior performance at high ISO.

Can anyone suggest some common settings for in-flight and ground to air shots?

Beginner needs some help finding the right combination, even though AUTO does a pretty good job :)

Ozzi

Ozzi said:

I usually use ISO 100, 1/500 sec and about f8 - f-11, depending on lighting - as a reasonable area to start for ground to air - will need to check back on details for a/a as it's a while since I've done any!

http://paulcoulthread.fotopic.net/p44555167.html