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you and I have been singled-out for analysis Sadly I dont know where it is. |
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It would have worked, but the offending post has been removed ;)
Not by the poster, but by a moderator. Moderators: +1 :D Poster: -1 :hmm: |
Thanks Whirls.
There is some fairly firmly expressed criticism of this place from IO540 on pprune. He knows a lot about his type of flying but sometimes tends to give the impression, perhaps inadvertently, that anyone who does not fly IFR in a fast complex using GPS must be a luddite numptoid. He seems also to have an interest in the further flung reaches of aviation law, although as a mere lawyer it sometimes seems to me that he posits a view or poses a question about a scenario which would test the rules in what looks like a rather pointless fashion, but perhaps there's method in it which I can't see. On the wider subject of banter, aviation and bantering seem to me to be inseparable. Line shooting, spoofing and joshing are as much parts of aviation tradition as bad food and worse coffee. To this heady mix we sometimes add robust debate, participation in which is entirely voluntary, but here we run up against the curious modern concept that we must all be fluffy and huggy all of the time and aren't allowed to respond scornfully to unreasonable statements on serious subjects. It appears from pprune that Rustle has flounced, which is a pity, but he has seemed to be really grumpy lately, whereas others of us are just pretending. However, I just loved it as a piece of English. PS Wished I had known there was something offensive - I could have cross posted that as well - I wonder whether the moderators would have got together. |
Again, ftaod, that wasn't the post I was referring to :8
Gerard's a Good Guy and used to post here a lot until some unpleasantness about Sudan, pilots and donations came up...:O The offending post and one that referred to it have both been removed. |
Again, ftaod, that wasn't the post I was referring to Gerard's post caught my eye - and it is a good piece of prose. |
Originally Posted by rustle
Gerard's a Good Guy and used to post here a lot until some unpleasantness about Sudan, pilots and donations came up...
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Tis as Keef says; things wax and whane.
First got into on-line aviation banter via the Flyer List and when that took a nosedive came over here. Great times were had with and I learned a lot, both about aviation and on line communities. Tried the Flyer Forums at about the same time but their format at the time and the amount of trolls made that unbearable. That got addressed and the lack of people hiding behind aliases does make for better postings and less flaming, as does the fact that people have been meeting up a lot more frequently than the odd bash. Some say that makes it more cliquey. Think that is a bit of a misnomer as all are welcome. 'Left' Proon at the same time as Gerard as I thought that episode was handled particularly bad by the powers that were. Later had a spat with one of the mods on here (not BRL) and unhappy to have ads next to my name on the medical and health forum which seems to be an unmoveable issue so stopped posting on there. Pop back every now and then and have a look. At times some interesting threads. But overall not enough impetus to hang about anymore. It's a bit like your favourite restaurant. After some time the menu changes, as does the staff and the clientele so you move on. |
Originally Posted by Flyin'Dutch'
unhappy to have ads next to my name on the medical and health forum
Cheers Whirls |
Maybe PPRuNe is a smidge more 'grown up', with all the good AND bad that implies?
And not sure how 'grown up':hmm: I want to be anyway.... |
Pompey Paul has it right in my opinion.
I respect the right of "newbies" to participate in our industry, and am willing to reply to help them. Sometimes, though, I'd like to have a better idea of the quality of origin of the comment or question. I chose this place to read and reply because it is called "Professional". I trust that those who use this forum, who are in the earliest phases of being professional, are at least trying to act that way.... You don't have to be employed as a pilot to have a professional attitude toward flying, and conducting yourself with other aviation people. What if this forum also included a information item for each participant: "Hours flown PIC in the last year". At least we'd know who was flying and writing, and who was just writing... I read less and less on pprune lately, because there is just enough bunk here to put me off. I have a limited time for such participation, and intend to use it wisely. Cheers professionals, Pilot DAR |
Not sure the above description of me is accurate, but never mind. I try to write bits which have a bit of substance on subjects which I think (hope) I know a bit about. I have no problems with people flying say rag and tube types - why should I ? But I know about IFR so I write about IFR. I would be a complete plonker to write about aerobatics, wouldn't I ?
That piece comes from a practicing barrister (a nice chap as far as I can tell) whose work includes aviation law, and I genuinely wish that he would spend as much time dealing with the aviation law matters that surface regularly (and get discussed, generally in a useless and inconclusive manner, by amateur brain surgeons and wishful thinkers) as he spends on banter. We have too few people willing to put in the time to write up a detailed answer - see below. I avoid writing one-liners since they rarely convey any useful information and (given that all web-based forums are terribly inefficient to read, compared to Usenet) they just take up space and IMHO are a prime reason for driving out others who might otherwise have been willing to write up something worth reading. The content which I dislike most about certain forums is nearly always in the form of idiotic one-liners. If somebody has an opinion and takes the time to write something with more than 10 words, then at least it can be discussed. It doesn't matter that I might not agree with it; that's what discussion is about. One can't have a forum which is a chatty place without it getting cliquey, not to mention a few other things, and then anybody who has anything worthwhile to say will clear off - because most people with useful knowledge tend to also have a life and can't be bothered to live in virtual worlds. I have on occassions used some other more specialised forums (one aircraft type specific, one car type specific as I drive an unusual imported car and had to mess around with the fuel injection, and others for specific types of IT equipment which would have otherwise been unsupported) and most have gone the same way at times. Even the aircraft type specific one, which one would have expected to be rather dry, has had its fair share of aggressive idiots. |
I chose this place to read and reply because it is called "Professional". I trust that those who use this forum, who are in the earliest phases of being professional, are at least trying to act that way.... You don't have to be employed as a pilot to have a professional attitude toward flying, and conducting yourself with other aviation people. As for knowing the experience level of the posters, try looking at their profiles. Some are recently joined, and/or don't fill them in, and I tend to view their posts with...caution, maybe...and sometimes suspicion. But a fair number of people do fill them in, and that'll give you quite a good idea. Anyway, it happens in flying clubs too; it's just life. I remember a low hours student explaining to me quite patronisingly (after all, I'm a woman, so he just knew I wouldn't understand these things) why the minimum solo pilot weight in an R22 couldn't possibly be HIGHER when you had full fuel including the auxiliary tank. (It is; it's due to centre of gravity issues, not all-up weight). Then someone dropped by and happened to ask if I'd sorted out doing my instructor's course yet...you should have seen the chap's face. :):D |
Heroes of PFA, farmstrip flying - the best in aviation and some other people.
That's what the strapline for this forum says. |
I think the description of this forum is quite silly. "Heroes of PFA" ??????
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“Heroes of PFA" ??????”
You IFR types got something against the PFA Rod1:E |
You IFR types got something against the PFA
That's another amazing leap of deduction, which totally escapes me :ugh: The phrase "Heroes of PFA, farmstrip flying - the best in aviation and some other people" is not even proper English. A much more appropriate name for the forum would be something around "private pilots, covering all powered categories from ultralight to IFR"; that covers more or less everybody. The glider community has their own forums. The corporate pilots, and above, also have their own forums here which are quite different by nature and there appears to be virtually no overlap in the interests of these, and private pilots. |
give us a student forum where we can talk rubbish all day long http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=5 |
Aha ! A thread I can get behind . As a PPL cum budding atpl I regularly look at both the pro training and private flying forums . I think IMHO that there is far more brown runny smelly stuff posted in the pro forums than there ever is here . In the main most stuff here , especially questions is genuine and asked by genuine people . Yes you are always going to get a number of answers and opinions , I think Bruce Lee (not a noted aviator but still) said it best "Absorb what is useful " he based an entire scrapping system on that premise. Everyone here has something to give even if it just inane and ridiculous banter (That be me then) . The biggest pains in the asses I find are the time served manipulators and masters of the long thin tube . There seem to be many who are here to drag down and belittle those less experienced than themselves , be it knowledge professors or the ridiculous spelling and grammar police , why dont you Fxxk Orf . Sorry
At the end of the day where I fly from there are many instructors and pilots who also fly airliners this in my view makes the two inextricably linked , do these people consider themselves pro pilots or private flying types and which forum do they frequent ? I personally love the silliness and banter that some threads conjur up and enjoy the fact that if I have a silly question I can ask it , then sit back and watch the debate unfold I dont think however that putting hours and experience is such a good idea , you will always then get the My dads bigger than yours argument . I mean who is better to speak to a newbie and offer advice on flying a cessna 150 an airbus man with 3000hrs who last sat in one 15 yrs ago or a 200hr ppl who flys ten hours a month in one ??? I know which of them would think , sorry know he was in a better position to say Gemma good luck tmrw all will be well , solo by the weekend then is it ? and the answer is C |
Gemma, nobody is suggesting that newbies should not post here. If anybody suggested that, it would be a perversion of what somebody else wrote - a bit like one person saying "a GPS is a good thing" and then another person twisting that around into "you should keep your eyes out of the cockpit and not inside it".
The original debate was over people posting meaningless dross, especially one-liners containing no meaning, and personal attacks, all of which are pointless and drive good people away. |
I had rather enjoyed talking to with other grown-ups to be honest SkyHawk-N. |
The secret to all ppl exams Gem is RTFQ youve heard it before you know it but its there again for you. There will be at least two that are complete bollocks just take your time it will be no probs for you im sure . The only ones I struggled on were bloody flashing lights from towers alwasy confuse me those , I now have them on my kneeboard , never had to use them but there ya go
Good Luck:8:8:8 |
I had rather enjoyed talking to with other grown-ups to be honest SkyHawk-N. Hey I've got my air law exam tomorrow any tips Also if they start spouting on about weight and mass, and not using SI units make sure you get up, leave and inform the CFI that "up with this I will not put" and send a stiff letter about it to the CAA. The original debate was over people posting meaningless dross, especially one-liners containing no meaning, and personal attacks, The secret to all ppl exams Gem is RTFQ youve heard it before you know it but its there again for you |
Quality of posts ?
Never been quite the same since the end of a particular thread concerning headsets of a roseate hue......... Just kidding. But it helped some and infuriated others. As for spelling and grammar? Please at least TRY to make an effort - and leave yoof-speak to when yr txtng yr kewel M8s? OK?? |
BEagle
)*(&(&*^*&^%&&$£&^&*(*&(*^&)(*&*)(*&(*&(!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pink headsets to you, too! |
A newbie here, and a low houred PPL too, so bite me ! ;)
Hey isn't this a free internet forum ? Shouldn't we all take it with a pinch of salt ? In my short experience with aviation, airports and flying clubs, I've heard more bitching than you probably would at a hairdresser's (not that I have spent much time in a salon, unfortunately, given the state of my hair) Flying is fantastic, and so are a lot of people in aviation. As in every community there's a lot of w***ers as well. Opinionated, annoying boring sad gits but no different from what you will find in every walk of life. People that will give you a hard time for a spelling mistake or a typo. Threads can be incredibly obnoxious, petty or useless, but every now and again you can read something interesting. Despite all the crap, we still do it, so there must be some good in it no ? Fortunately it's free and you can choose what to read. And what to ignore, like my posts for example ;) |
Yes HH exactly ,I think that people like yourselves should be encouraged in your endeavours and not criticized for not being an airline captain. It does seem a lot of people on here do forget their roots and very quickly indeed . I wish I had an easy questioning forum like this when I did my PPL to pick peoples brains with . I am now using an atpl one , bugger is I still dont understand the answers when I get them , still ho hum on we go
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In my short experience with aviation, airports and flying clubs, I've heard more bitching than you probably would at a hairdresser's
Actually that's another good point. GA is renowned for that. I don't know why but it would make a good case study for a Psychology PhD. It could be because almost everything to do with flying is such a hassle on the ground, compensated only by the pleasure of being airborne. And because so many people are clearly not able to fly as much as they would like.... |
I read that book and I must have missed the chapter on gob!!!!e , underachieving, no mark prolls , a category I fit into fluidly , must read it again :O:O
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Anybody else read the killing zone, Sternone put a link up for it. It's the 'pilot personality' you see IO540. Male or female makes no difference - born to bitch, moan, get one over, be determined they are right and their instructor is being picky etc etc. Not sure if any of it is any more true in GA than any other community but the chapter in the book is worth a read and it might go along way to explain things on here - it's a type of person that learns to fly and I guess the banter and digging goes with that personality.
Can you quote any other references that assert this theory? It goes against everything that I understand about personality. |
I haven't read that book but have seen so many people mention his #1 plank which is that you will probably die when you reach 200 hours, or whatever it was.
The man should have gone on "Statistics 101". Correlation is no evidence for a causal relationship. There are loads of potential reasons why accidents peak around certain points in the pilot experience. It could be down to the alleged excess confidence or it could be a change in the mission profile. Without analysis one can't say much, and even then the conclusion will still only apply to the population rather than the individual. It's like saying that if you take a certain brand of contraceptive pill you are only 10% likely to get pregnant. I agree that pilots do bitch rather a lot but let's look at why. Here in Europe there is a great deal of cr*p that any pilot has to deal with on the ground, and there a a lot more cr*p on top of that that any aircraft owner has to deal with on the ground. This, together with the relative lack of utility value in GA etc etc, means that most people chuck it in fast, and that the people who do hang in there tend to be strong determined characters. These people tend to be opinionated (no push-over type will survive in this game for long) and this shows up in pilot forums. There is nothing wrong with being opinionated! When my children were very small, they used to say "Papa, you know EVERYTHING, don't you?". I used to reply "I don't know everything, but I do have an opinion on everything". 10 years later they get the joke. The problem with pilot forums is that you get a lot of people who are opinionated but who rarely (if ever) fly. These people have nothing to contribute (except idle chatter) but they still manage to run up 10,000 posts within say 3 years. Everybody else then has to wade through this dross. If this was Usenet, one could killfile them but this can't be done with web based forums - unless somebody writes a custom front end. The Usenet equivalent of Pprune or Flyer forums would have large killfiles and would take just seconds to read - per day. Whereas if you wanted to read the whole of say Flyer you would spend several hours per day in there. Web based forums are a massive step backwards in this respect. |
I agree with Final 3 Greens. It's not something I've ever heard about, nor does it seem to make sense in terms of either personality theory or what I know in practice about pilots. Anyone can write anything - get it in print, and you tend to be believed and it's taken as gospel. I know, I'm a writer and it happens all the time!
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It could be because almost everything to do with flying is such a hassle on the ground, compensated only by the pleasure of being airborne. And because so many people are clearly not able to fly as much as they would like.... That's another thread though and I'm just ranting. I've been here over 3 years, and in all honesty haven't been posting anywhere near what I used to, but that's mainly because my diary thread (3 years old still going :8) started to come to a close after I got my ticket. You can't please everyone, and threads like this will continue to pop up for years and years to come :rolleyes: |
I like both the PPRUNE and Flyer forums, but for different reasons. I use both as a way of maintaining a connection to aviation during the working week, and for prompting thought about my approach and technique when I am away from the airfield.
I like the sense of community on the Flyer Forum, with it's fly-ins, impromptu gatherings and fast-paced repartee, but PPRUNE has a wider base of experience (perceived or real I am not sure?), and I find the mil forum as a great way of keeping in touch with what the RAF culture is turning into. I heard a great quote yesterday: Opinions are like @rseholes, everyone has one, but they don't tend to show them in public:cool: |
Wessex Boy - "I heard a great quote yesterday:
Opinions are like @rseholes, everyone has one, but they don't tend to show them in public" Some do and some don't............ most of the time anyway. Cheers, Trapper 69 :cool: |
Although I have to say, for what ever reason, this is probably one of the more vicious forum I actually read. :ouch: |
That's nothing, you should see some of the US tropical fish fora....:}
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As has been suggested, these things do tend to be a little cyclic.
But, being an old fart and able to see things from a perspective broader than most, I am inclined to think that there is less to talk about these days than once was the case. People now have shared experiences of the same legislative and operating restrictions, usually fly one of only three types of generally uninspiring aircraft in largely similar conditions and circumstances and spend more time in discussion of airspace infringements and the like than in actually flying which is not a particularly edifying topic in itself due to generally uninspiring aircraft . . . blah, blah, blah. This is not necessarily a criticism; just an observation of how things have developed into a regimented blandness. To be asking questions concerning the legality of flying into a private field seems to exemplify this Orwellian condition. Now if someone were to ask whether the direction of rotation of the Pobjoy had a marked affect on which side to approach slip a Comper Swift, or seek a special technique enabling a Miles Gemini to make a non-porpoising climb out whilst the gear was being pumped up, we would really be cooking with gas . . . Oh dear, showing my age again. |
Miles Gemini....now you're talking!
Saw one for sale recently, very nice! any views on what they are like to fly/own? Not serious yet, but in 10 years or so maybe? (in my dreams probably) |
Actually that's another good point. GA is renowned for that <bitching>. Personally I don't care where someone comes from, what they do, or who they are. I had a look around someones hangar in the USA. In his "toy box" were: A cessna citation A Jet ranger A classic ferrari A brand new ferrari somethingorother A Mclaren sports car A Lotus racing car 2 mercedes classic convertibles A ducati A T28 warbird I did feel mildly envious :O |
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